As we learned in an SJC hearing last summer (where this exchange took place), in addition to giving Jay Bybee and John Yoo two opportunities to respond to the OPR report, DOJ also let CIA review the report. That’s why I was so interested to see details of a John Rizzo letter (dated October 5, 2009) cited heavily in the second Yoo and Bybee responses.
In this post, I will reconstruct the letter, to the extent possible, to show what John Rizzo has to say for himself. I laid out the raw mentions of Rizzo’s letter in this working thread. Here, I just put those raw mentions in the paragraph order in which they appear in Rizzo’s letter.
[Paragraph 1] “CIA did not ask OLC to provide an exhaustive memorandum that thoroughly discussed all possible counter arguments,” but rather sought “OLC’s best judgment about the correct answer to a difficult question of law.” Rizzo was “aware that the issues were uncertain and that there were no controlling precedents.” “When [Rizzo] asked for OLC’s views, [his] overriding objective was to secure a definitive opinion on an expedited basis.”
[Paragraph 2] Rizzo “had substantial personal involvement in the process.” The “OLC lawyers worked diligently on the issues, raised questions, sought out relevant factual information, and solicited input from a number of Executive Branch lawyers.” OLC “did not simply ‘rubber stamp’ everything the CIA was considering.” [almost certainly with a reference to mock burial]
[Paragraph 3] “All of the Executive Branch lawyers involved in reviewing the issues were satisfied that the memos reasonably concluded that the techniques at issue would not constitute torture.” Rizzo confirmed that Bellinger “did not express reservations about the conclusions set forth in the memos” and “was firmly on board with OLC’s assessment that the techniques at issue did not meet the restrictive definition of torture set forth in the statute.” Rizzo was “principally concerned with the conclusions in the Classified Bybee Memo”
[Paragraph 4] Rizzo believes that ”the memos adequately informed [him] about the relevant risks and provided [him] with the information that [he] needed to advise the CIA.” The Levin Memo “did not fundamentally alter” his “understanding of the” ”application of the statute to the enhanced interrogation techniques” and “did not change the answer” to the question of legality.
[Paragraph 5] Once Rizzo was “advised that the Criminal Division would not issue an advance declination of prosecution, [he] did not pursue the issue any further.” Rizzo confirmed that he never interpreted the Bybee Memo to immunize interrogators so long as they had a motive to obtain information, did not cause organ failure, acted pursuant to the Commander-in-Chief power, or asserted a common law defense. “[I] did not interpret the 2002 Bybee Memos to mean … that the interrogators would be immune from prosecution if they cross the careful lines drawn in the [Classified Bybee Memo].” Rizzo “interpreted the Commander-in-Chief section to refer to interrogations personally ordered by the President but [he] did not view it as a form of ‘immunity”.” In advising the CIA, Rizzo “relied on the analysis and limitations set forth in the [C]lassified Bybee Memo because it specifically addressed the application of the statute to the proposed conduct”
[Paragraph 6] Rizzo concluded that he was “satisfied” that Judge Bybee “met the standard of care.”
Something that doesn’t appear to be in Rizzo’s letter, though appears in the Report (though it is redacted–Bybee quotes it from the report in his response) is Rizzo’s claim that he didn’t think he had to go back and get each new torture program approved.
Rizzo’s recollection that neither Bellinger nor Yoo expected him to brief OLC “on every new variation or technique that comes up,” Report at 233,
Rizzo’s letter is nothing radical: it’s John Rizzo writing a letter that Yoo and Bybee could use to buttress their claim that “their client” (I’ll come back to this in a later post) knew how to use the memos. Rizzo claimed that he stopped asking for an advance declination after he was told no, that he did not view the Bybee One memo as a Get Out of Jail Free card, and that he focused primarily on the Bybee Two memo laying out specific techniques. If you ignore the statement Rizzo apparently made directly to OPR–that he felt free to approve torture that varied from the descriptions included in the Bybee Two memo–then it goes some way to rebut all the evidence that Yoo and Bybee oversaw the writing of a Get Out of Jail Free card.
But in addition to that conflict, this letter crystallizes another question I’ve got about the CIA’s involvement.
The OPR report says that CIA wanted an advance declination from the very first discussions of the Bybee Memos–so as early as April 11, 2002. The report even suggests (though Rizzo denies it) that Rizzo brought a draft advance declination to a meeting in that timeframe. Chertoff refused the advance declination in a meeting on July 13 and after that directed Yoo to write CIA a letter informing them of that refusal (Yoo drafted it a few days later but never sent it). On July 16, Addington appears to have instructed Yoo to include the Commander in Chief and affirmative defense sections to accomplish the same purpose. On July 24, Yoo gave Rizzo oral approval to use attention grasp, walling, facial hold, cramped confinement, and wall standing. It wasn’t until July 26, when OLC was giving oral approval for waterboarding (but not, because it would take too much time, mock burial) that CIA first asked for written approval for specific torture techniques.
Particularly given Rizzo’s claim that he was primarily interested in the Bybee Two memo, purportedly a document placing strict limits on torture, even though Rizzo admitted to OPR that he felt free to free-lance from there, why did CIA wait until almost two after weeks Chertoff refused to give CIA an advance declination until they even asked for the Bybee Two memo?
In other words, John Rizzo writes a nice fairy tale in his letter for Yoo and Bybee. But his story appears not to correlate with his actions on the memos at all.



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Let’s release the documents pertinent to the Yeman’s govt willingness to hand Osama Bin Laden to the Clinton Administraion. Cherry picking for the sake of ideology is ridiculous. Democrats and Republicans are both guilty of hiding everything from Domestic to International politics. All we know is that Bush kept us safe after 9/11, and our recent experiences with terrorists are self evident.
*splurt* *there goes the keyboard* “…kept us safe…”? WTF was he doing _before_ 9/11 is more to the point. Cutting brush in Crawford, as I recall.
Everybody in a position to do anything about it is simply not interested. He could have began it with “Once upon a Time”, killed a dragon, and ended it with “lived happily ever after” and it still would have been accepted as fact.
By yourself, you have published enough information to get an indictment in any court in the land, never mind whatever additional crimes ObamaCo may still be successfully covering.
Yet there is no prosecution. And no real public pressure to do so. In fact, I think there’d be strong public support to telling any international court to shove any warrants that might someday be issued. I actually heard an otherwise likeable person say “Even if he wasn’t a terrorist now, he’s still a Moslem. And we gotta make sure they fear us, it’s all they understand”.
Boxturtle (FREEP! WTF are you?!? Cleanup in asle 1!)
politicalcircusblogdotcom, you are very easy to please.
As Dylan said; “The circus is in town.”
Very, very funny Boxturtle.
ROTFLMAO
I’ve come to pronounce these abbreviations aloud so our 14 year old daughter will know what I mean.
Rawt full Lah Mow
I see you have broken out your gift for understatement this morning.
Back on topic. If intended to illuminate Rizzo’s thinking, this sentence fails to be (to me anyway) comprehensible: “Rizzo confirmed that he never interpreted the Bybee Memo to immunize interrogators so long as they had a motive to obtain information, did not cause organ failure, acted in pursuit of the C in C power, or asserted a common-law defense.” I suspect there was meant to be a period after the word, interrogators, and a new sentence listing Rizzo’s notion of the guidelines that would insure immunity. As written though, it’s gibberish.
The idea that these actors – as opposed to those whom they counseled and who did not see the “analysis” or “advice” on which they based their counsel – reasonably relied on good faith interpretations of the law then in force is farcical beyond belief.
politicalfarcedotgov is hilarious this morning. And I thought all of Karl’s Klackers had gone on to real jobs after Karl left the White House and their AEI fellowships expired. Who knew?
A few days ago I downloaded a copy of the May 2008 oversight and review division of the office of the inspector general*s report with the title **A Review of the FBI*s Involvement in and Observations of Detainee Interrogations in Guantanamo Bay, Afghanistan and Iraq**. [6MB], which is all very old news. The document archived at that source is the same old unsearchable version, hampering comparative evaluations. I continue to think it remarkable that Mueller*s FBI outfit somehow managed to keep sufficient discipline to remain apart from the political planning of instituting various new torcha regimens. Maybe this impression of one agency*s successful attempting to preserve some degree of tradition throughout is based on my having read only a few 1,000 pages of the now sporadically ample archive in the public domain. The version of history I learned in academia taught institutional strengthening as the best emolient in matters of blatant transgression of humane values which get compromised in patriotic moments in many countries. I look forward to working further on the 600+pp of the Bybee and Yoo serial, synchronized responses. It would be interesting to have the opportunity to compare some of the other counsels* written inputs in the process of institutionalizing torture, as well. Further, I believe I have forgotten the enunciated reasons why, after the cited FBI IG report above, apparently most subsequent IG reports began to bear, as well, the OPR emblem on the title page as a sign of coauthorship; and, I am not sure a blend of IG and OPR is precisely what congress had in mind when it reconfigured watchdoggery constructs during Bushco years; I thought the IG was the prime control for that purpose.
Yeah, but the law we like works for them too. We gotta prove it in court and any lawyer will tell you that intent is a very tricky thing to prove.
Boxturtle (Your Honor, entry into evidence the last two years of the EmptyWheel blog)
Prosecutors would have half their work done for them by reading EW’s analyses. Sure “intent” is hard to prove and it’s usually done circumstantially. But just look at all the material there is to work with.
Take one example: The idea that a superstar graduate of two Ivy League schools and a tenured professor of constitutional law at UC Berkeley was simply a bad writer or analyst, that he forgot adverse precedent that formed core parts of his teaching syllabus, that he wildly misinterpreted others, and that he let major issues be defined and drafted by an inexperienced underling (who was then rewarded with a series of govt promotions that enabled her to become a partner in a DC law firm) and sent out her work without seriously reading or checking it, beggars the belief of any jury outside of Texas.
Interesting observation. Makes you wonder what the effect of such blending has on IG independence, as well as on security.
Speaking of Rizzo and Yoo .. anyone see that Yoo has his bi-weekly(or so) op-ed in the Philadelphia Inquirer crowing about being found innocent .. and glad the persecution is over? Here:
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20100228_Closing_Arguments__Finally__an_end_to_Justice_Dept__investigation.html
Nothing good, I’m sure.
Marcy, you’ve done amazing work on this topic. Would strongly suggest putting an overall summary on an upcoming post (or even writing another book as you did with Plame a la ALL THE PRESIDENTS MEN). I’ve followed the torture scandal fairly closely but the day to day becomes rather weedy even for me. Would love to see it all concisely analyzed in one place
OT: Hockey *mutter mutter*
We don’t do hockey here; that is strictly a Canadian thing. It is against the laws of nature for anybody but Canadians to actually play hockey.
Concur… another book
Toews puts the Syrup Suckers up 1-0 :-)
I hate to anticipate too much — I mean, I’m no John Yoo hubris-laden gloater — but I did make some popcorn.
Anyone catch this in Yoo’s Philly Inquirer screed today?
It begs the question as to whether there was any real search conducted. Maybe they used the wrong “keywords” and the emails will turn up in a year from now ala Hadley/Rove.
Apologies if this was covered in another thread
Kesler gets the Americans within 1
2-1 Canadians
And yet there was the Yoo “boo boo” email, discussing a highly classified detainee for whom he was soliciting torture. Just how did that happen, if Yoo was so well aware that he couldn’t use the email system for those kinds of discussions.
For any real prosecutor (not so much anyone still involved with DOJ years after realizing they were working for a torture regime) Yoo would be the gift that keeps giving. He won’t shut up in print.
Book Salon up at the Mothership with Moshe Adler’s Economics for the Rest of Us: Debunking the Science that Makes Life Dismal hosted by Max Wolff
Gah.
It’s really amazing, Mary, that he actually gets the luxury of a mainstream publication to print lies. Flat out lies. It’s not opinion the papers are printing. It’s lies. He did it with the WSJ earlier this week too. I hope the judge in the Padilla case allows the suit to move forward.
Excellent point on the “boo boo” email. And given that he was quite the freelancer I’m wondering if he used a different account as well.
The WSJ thing was simply cretinous. Just unbelievable. The guy is pathological.
It was a great game; all those guys are brilliant, and we shall try to be gracious in victory. *wink* Well, it means a lot here. And they are happy in Cole Harbour, NS, tonight.
i believe that was the chief job requirement for his position.
Those crazy Canadians stole our gold medal!!
Congratulations friends to the north!
Typical Right Wing demand #1: “Release documents!”
Then when documents are released and actually reveal something not desired, or further damning, denounce document, ignore document, and repeat Typical Right Wing demand #2: “Bush kept us safe”
YOU may ‘know’ Bush kept YOU safe, but I don’t think so. Bush kept us scared. Scared does not= Safe. Every day having to wake up and see on TV the “threat warning level” is “orange” or “red” again, each and every time somebody critized or uncovered another gruesome fact about his Regime on MSNBC. Torture is WRONG. Against the law. Period.
Even for op pieces, I don’t understand the standards they are using for what the print. The email account is a good point.
Yeah. Take, for example, the Phoenix Coyotes, bmaz’ home team. Please.
They don’t really play hockey, even if they are in second place in the “Pacific” division. The fact that Dallas and Phoenix are in this so-called “Pacific” division gives you a clue. These people obviously don’t know anything about geography, so why would you expect them to know anything about hockey?
Bob in AZ
Northern AZ. The snowfall capital of the Lower 48.
Syrup suckers, indeed! ROFLMAO.
Bob in AZ
Hey, I ain’t got anything to do with them; I never understood what a hockey team was doing here in the first place. The answer is, they haven’t done much.
It was a good hockey game. I personally thought that the USA played an excellent game. Canada played with spirit and were fortunate to win, the USA acquitted themselves admirably.
Good to use the A word in an EW thread in a positive way.
“The A word” … ??? Acquitted? Admirably?
RHGreen@5, Let the record show, temporally, there is an ad depicting a detainee on the current website which very much resembles a …**postcard**.
Stole that from Steven Colbert :-)
You hit the nail on the head :-)
A lot of the time hockey is boring to watch
They say that watching a hockey game in person is something like 10 times better than watching on tv, but playing a game is about 100 times better than watching a game on tv
I’m a dinosaur I guess. Kids nowadays play one sport and get locked in, but when I was coming up we played every sport that was in season. Liked baseball a lot – but too boring. Tolerated basketball – something to do. Wresting was too much like work – toughest sport I ever participated in. Loved, loved, loved football – but the practices bored me to tears
But hockey was fun. Hockey at it’s base level is skating. Speed is fun and skating is fast. Does anyone know anyone who doesn’t like to skate? You get to hit someone kinda like football; you also get to swing a stick, kinda like baseball; and you get to go even faster than basketball.
Most of this country isn’t cold enough for long enough to be able to skate for recreation. Fortunately or unfortunately I grew up where it was cold enough for a lot of the year, where we could walk a few blocks to the park down the street and go skating for something to do in the Wintertime. And our big family tradition on New Years Eve was to go skating and come back home and eat pizza as the clock struck Midnight
Fun times
YMMV
Apparently the Canadians are better at hockey than they are at producing closing ceremonies.
I have two or three problems with Hockey.
* The puck is too small. Only ping pong has a smaller object of contention.
* The passing is too sloppy. Why don’t they keep track of steals and turnovers like they do in other sports?
* The fighting. Why is it tolerated?
Even though I grew up in Wisconsin, I never developed a taste for hockey. But I had a classmate who introduced me to curling.
Bob in AZ