I’ve been thinking a lot about the OPR report’s description of who cooperated and who didn’t with its report (those not bolded in the table). In addition to the most important White House players–particularly David Addington, as well as Tim Flanigan–they list at least four CounterTerrorism Center lawyers who refused to cooperate. (On PDF 13; get a searchable copy here)
Some witnesses declined to be interviewed. Former AG Ashcroft did not respond to several interview requests but ultimately informed us, through his attorney, that he had declined our request. CIA Counter Terrorism Center (CTC) attorneys [two or three names redacted] refused to meet with us on the advice of counsel, but we were able to review brief summaries of their interviews with the CIA’s Office of the Inspector General (CIA OIG) in connection with CIA OIG’s investigation and May 7, 2004 report entitled “Counterterrorism Detention and Interrogation Activities September 2001 – October 2003)” (the CIA
OIG Report). CTC attorney [one name redacted] also refused our request for an interview, as did former CTC attorney [one name redacted] although [one name redacted] spoke briefly with us by telephone. Finally, former Counsel to the Vice President David Addington and former Deputy White House Counsel Timothy Flanigan did
not respond to our requests for interviews.
OPR is saying that of the 21 most important witnesses for this investigation, at least four are or were lawyers in CIA’s CounterTerrorism Center. And at least two of them were warned not to cooperate on the advice of their attorneys.
Particularly given how much transparently false information was given to OLC to generate their memos, that’s a notable detail. It means that OPR doesn’t even begin to capture the problems with the memos that CIA contributed, because it could not really explain how that false information got introduced into the process.
The CTC lawyer who wrote the “Effectiveness Memo”
By way of example, consider the one known role of CTC lawyer(s) in the torture memos. A CTC lawyer or lawyers wrote the “Effectiveness Memo” and “Briefing Notes” that Steven Bradbury used to justify his claim that torture worked. As Michael Isikoff pointed out, OPR focused closely on the Effectiveness Memo’s errors.
But a just released report by the Justice Department’s Office of Professional Responsibility into the lawyers who approved the CIA’s interrogation program could prove awkward for Cheney and his supporters. The report provides new information about the contents of one of the never released agency memos, concluding that it significantly misstated the timing of the capture of one Al Qaeda suspect in order to make a claim that seems to have been patently false.
The memo also omitted any references to a notorious incident in which another high level CIA detainee, Ibn Al-Shaykh al-Libi, provided “false information” about Al Qaeda’s supposed connections to Iraq in order to stop his Egyptian interrogators from abusing him, the Justice report states. (Al-Libi was transfered by the CIA to Egyptian custody under the agency’s “extraordinary rendition” program.)
The CIA memo, called the Effectiveness Memo, was especially important because it was relied on by Steven G. Bradbury, then the Justice Department’s acting chief of the Office of Legal Counsel, to write memos in 2005 and 2007 giving the agency additional legal approvals to continue its program of “Enhanced Interrogation Techniques.” The memo reviewed the results of the use of EITs – which included waterboarding, sleep deprivation, and forced nudity – mainly against two suspects” Abu Zubaydah and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the report states. One key claim in the agency memo was that the use of the CIA’s enhanced interrogations of Zubaydah led to the capture of suspected “dirty bomb’ plotter Jose Padilla. “Abu Zubaydah provided significant information on two operatives, Jose Padilla and Binyam Mohammed, who planned to build and detonate a ‘dirty bomb’ in the Washington DC area,” the CIA memo stated, according to the OPR report. “Zubaydah’s reporting led to the arrest of Padilla on his arrival in Chicago in May 2003 [sic].”
But as the Justice report points out, this was wrong.
I wrote about the errors in these memos–and the obviously fraudulent way they were used–last April.
Bradbury primarily cites two documents to make his claim that the interrogation program was effective (along with some older intelligence reports):
- Memorandum for Steven G. Bradbury, Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Office of Legal Counsel, from [redacted], DCI Counterterrorist Center, Re: Effectiveness of the CIA Counterintelligence Interrogation Techniques (March 2, 2005) ["Effectiveness Memo"]
- Fax from [redacted], DCI Counterterrorist Center, Briefing Notes on the Value of Detainee Reporting (April 15, 2005) ["Briefing Notes"]
The descriptions make clear that both these documents were created for him. And, both these documents were created in the months leading up to this memo. In other words, these documents appear to have been created precisely to give Bradbury what he needed–the ability to argue the program was effective.
And largely based on these two documents, Bradbury provides a page and a half of specific intelligence derived from enhanced interrogation of KSM and Abu Zubaydah. Even in that page and a half, there are factual problems with Bradbury’s description. There’s information included that we know was available prior to their detention; there’s information included that was reportedly collected through persuasive rather than coercive interrogation; much of it relates to and came from lower level detainees; it includes the Padilla dirty bomber claim.
So there are one or two CTC lawyers who produced knowingly false information so Steven Bradbury could refute what was in the CIA IG Report. Presumably, these are two of the lawyers who refused to cooperate with OPR (note that in early drafts, OPR recommended OPR do a further review of Bradbury’s memos, but Mukasey squelched that recommendation).
The (?) CTC lawyer who ordered up the August 1, 2002 Techniques memo
It’s also possible that a CTC lawyer made the request that OLC do a “Techniques” memo in August 2002, in addition to the more general memo. This email, sent from Jennifer Koester, refers to a female person at CIA, so it’s clear that OLC was dealing with someone beyond just John Rizzo.
I got a message from [redacted] said the agency wants written approval rather than just oral approval. She said that this did not need to be in the form of a written opinion, but could be some sort of short letter that tells them that they have the go ahead.
This says someone else, probably at CIA, besides just John Rizzo, was working on the Techniques memo. (Note that 1.5 pages in the pages previous to this comment is redacted; some of this pertains to CIA’s request to approve mock burial, but some of the rest more closely appears to tie to the Tehcniques memo.) If this person is one of the unnamed CTC lawyers, it raises the question of whether a lot of the known false claims given to OLC–particularly regarding Abu Zubayadah and the claims about information he had and the role in al Qaeda he played–came from these CTC lawyers (particularly since we know the later false claims given to Steven Bradbury came from CTC).
Where else?
Those are two other places–one definite, and one possible–where CTC lawyers had a key role in the development of the memos.
But there are a number of other areas where OPR might have wanted to question CTC officials: The background of the CIA torture program (note the redactions on PDF pages 35 and 37) and the early discussions of what the Bybee One memo should include (see the redactions on PDF pages 46 though 48, plus the indication that CIA Memos for the Record form part of the basis for discussions of those meetings). In addition, OPR’s reliance on the CIA IG report suggests some of that information, suggests material in there may have been part of the discussion (note OPR has long discussions of the abuses with some detainees).
These are all areas where the OPR report is–presumably–badly incomplete.
Criminal referrals
Finally, there’s one more area where CTC’s lawyers were almost certainly involved: criminal referrals to DOJ. This section–which is not unsurprisingly heavily redacted–starts on PDF page 96. And, after six pages of redactions, about the only thing we get to read is this conclusion:
Accordingly, we recommend that the declination decision with respect to [several words redacted] be reexamined. Primarily because of the changed legal landscape, we further recommend that the other declination decisions made by CTS and the EDVA be reexamined as· well.
We know that reading this report (and this recommendation) is one of the things that convinced Holder to reopen torture investigations. And presumably, the CTC lawyers would have been at the core of discussions with potential defendants (and would have been in charge of earlier, verbal, authorizations, perhaps passed on from the White House).
Presumably, John Durham (who may have had to speak to some of the same lawyers in his never-ending torture tape investigation) would have subpoena power to force these same CTC lawyers to testify.
But I do wonder if that’s the primary issue that OPR would have talked to the CTC lawyers about?
Update: As this post makes clear, OPR had to have spoken with Jonathan Fredman at some point, so he must be the CTC attorney who spoke to them briefly by phone.



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If this is willful lying who is at risk for perjury or other criminal charges ?
Did Addington come to testify in front of congress on his own accord?
For some reason the list of 4 CTC lying lawyers not talking, makes me think of this.
Related (CIA): I guess we’re supposed to be comforted somehow by this headline:
CIA inspector general [Helgerson] was ‘bothered’ by ‘excessive’ waterboarding
Link.
Nobody, because we’re supposed to be looking forward, not backward.
(And anyway, their bosses (official or not) won’t support them if they tried to nail anyone for pe)rjury or whatever.
how is it that a government employee can refuse to testify before a govt authorized investigating body?
in such a situation you wouldn’t to consider applying the nuremburg defense;
you’d be applying the fuck-off defense.
EW:Thanks a lot for all this great work you’re doing. I just ran across this you may be interested in:
Roberts’s Idea of Oversight; Scott Horton, 2/24/10
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2010/02/hbc-90006596
The Margolis Memo; Scott Horton, 2/24/10
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2010/02/hbc-90006597
The leaked CRS Report he links to near the end is interesting.
Yeah get over the fact that your country invaded another country based on a “pack of lies” Just roll right over the hundreds of thousands, dead, injured, millions displaced. Don’t be about “vengeance, retribution, witch hunts” This is what our leaders call holding those responsible for unnecessary wars and torture
As often and as clearly as you’ve made the points, I’m at a loss as to why msm keeps up the “eits did not start until after the 8-2 memo” chant.
So one of those CTC lawyers is probably Fredman, right? The “if they die, you did it wrong [** but feel free to keep experimenting until you get it right**], words of wisdom, guy? The one who helped explain in the Oct 2002 meeting
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2008/06/17/41394/documents-confirm-us-hid-detainees.html
that if the ICRC got sniffy about a torturee, you could just ghost them?
I’m a bit surprised that they didn’t talk to everyone who went on the Torture Field Trip, since I have to believe that they were all involved, to some degree or another, in conversations over what would be and was or wasn’t permissible. Why else were they going? So Larry Thompson and Chris Wray seem like odd ommissions from the interviewed or at least tried to interview list.
Uh, yeah, I’d say that’s a very likely suggestion.
The SJC is having a hearing friday on the OPR Report. Guess who is NOT coming to dinner? That’s right Diamond Dave Margolis wasn’t invited. Instead, the sole witness will be Acting DAG Gary Grindler. Captain Renault is amused…..
Thanks yet again for your work, Marcy. The graphics showing the pattern of non/cooperation are a great hook.
If the administration doesn’t impose employment sanctions, formal disciplinary notes to employee files or withdrawal of a security clearance (which would happen in a heartbeat at State), then any federal employee – especially one covering for a torture process masterminded by the former vice president, which, by definition, could only be accomplished by powers delegated to him by his president – can get away with the “fuck off” defense.
This reads like the CTC lawyers are all still currently with CIA and serving as CTC lawyers – is that right? Hard to imagine Fredman still being there.
@12 – so what are they expecting to achieve with that kind of a hearing? Most of them won’t have read any of it and they have a guy who wasn’t involved in asking for the investigation, wasn’t involved in drafting it, and wasn’t involved in reviewing – as their “witness”? I don’t get it.
Hmmmm, maybe that IS the idea…..
Aside about some commenter links from leen and harpie. The Horton article at Harpers Magazine is interesting. Its link to a CRS abbreviated study by Doyle February 2009 updated December 2001 re professional conduct standards at DoJ is interesting, partly for the fact that direct searches at fas and OpenCRS do not find it, but Googling reveals CRS has a copy with altered filename. Further, this Doyle report states it is based on a longer CRS document, which, surely enough, is not yet in the public domain, not via Google, OpenCRS, Aftergood fas nor even U North Tx (one of Aftergood*s recommendations as an alternative collection). At question seem to be McDade-Murtha amendment revisions to standards of conduct, and even the Patriot Act. Doyle also has a full CRS study available examining the Patriot Act. In sum, the available documents are RS21092 (the WikiLeaks MIT version of the short report by Doyle); RL31377 on the Patriot Act, by Doyle; but not RL30060 McDade-Murtha Amendment: Ethical Standards for Justice Department Attorneys December 14, 2001.
No, one was former. Fredman was working for DNI last year, at least at the beginning of Obama’s term.
Why are they citing Judicial Watch when these are the very same documents released by CCR, Amnesty, on Monday? The documents are the same, only Judicial Watch’s spin is different. Jeez.
Marcy, this is a great post. I was speaking to one of Zubaydah’s attorney today, Brent Mickum, and he made some similar points. This was his direct quote:
Marcy,
Did we ever get confirmation about the January 2004 Israeli trip regarding EIT’s? The travelers supposedly included Jack London, CEO CACI and a high level group of US Congressmen and possible CTC folks?
I remember reading about it somewhere and posting about it here a while back.
EW
The way you time-line, categorize and dot connect is, as always, priceless. I don’t remember if Conyers is your Congress Critter or not, but please forward (or cause to be forward) this article and your OLC threads to Conyers, Nadler and Leahy. While Addington is proud of his role to subvert laws, regulations and the Constitution, I suspect the others, if forced by subpoena to testify, would be less sanguine in testifying before our enfeebled Congressional committees.
“Boatload of shit”. One of my favorite phrases; I like this guy Mickum!
While their skills as lawyers might leave something to be desired, members of the Senate (or whoever advises them) must be well up on wiles?
That very precise legal term, among the stable-full that you possess, one imagines, bmaz, which you use on choice occasions has found much favor in my thoughts of late, “horse manure”, it is. A very great deal of it.
DW
I beat on this a bit, but I still think the Omar al-Faruq and Zubaydah tie might be instructive to purse. Supposedly Zubaydah gave the info for the capture of al-Faruq. Per this September 15, 2002 TIME report, Indonesian authorities arrest al-Faruq June 5, 2002 and within 3 days have him turned over to the CIA at Bagram.
So before June 5, Zubaydah was telling CIA about al-Faruq. For three months before the September 13, 2002 date of the article, al-Faruq is subjected to isolation and sleep deprivation at Bagram. This would have put those tactics around two months prior to the August 2, 2002 memo, although a question might be whether, although the TIME article makes this all about the CIA at Bagram, it was really the military engaging in that acivity (as per this linked above article about the minutes from the Oct 2002 meeting at GITMO with Fredman and Beaver, where Beaver describes sleep deprivation being used to break detainees in Bagram and says it is “True, but officially it is not happening”
(BTW, if TIME has had their secret doc and intel reports for 8 years, isn’t there any chance the rest of us can get them or that TIME would at least explicate that they’ve sat on evidence of sleep deprivation pre-dating the August 2, 2002 memos for a long long time now?)
In any event, someone is telling TIME in Sept 2002, despite all Dan Coleman’s info to the contrary, that Zubaydah is a high level al-Qaeda operative and getting them to print it. And we know he must be, bc supposedly he fingered al-Faruq who finally confesses after 3 mos of sleep deprivation and isolation to being the top al-Qaeda operative in Southeast Asia). (And so, of course, like al-Libi, we later lose track of him.)
Al-Faruq also says that Zubaydah and al-Libi are senior al-Qaeda officials too and spiels off a list of things they wanted him to do that sounds like they thought he was superman:
Some of what al-Faruq told the CIA after EITs applied for 3 mos, per this fairly contemporaneous TIME article, might have been used to get a FISA warrant vis a vis al-Harramain
Or maybe just for the non-warranted eavesdropping on al-Harramain’s lawyers.
In any event, in September 2002 TIME is reporting that it has evidence of sleep deprivation and isolation being used for three mos prior – since June – on al Faruq by the CIA at Bagram.
High everybody
off topic laugher
when a guy called Jeb slags ya, you might be a hick
now, Princess pandora comes with a theme song
it’s one of my favorites, in the situation
If they are going to have a guy who doesn’t know nuthin about nuthin there anyway, maybe they can ask him for some compare and contrast on the treatment of Jessica Radack
http://harpers.org/archive/2010/02/hbc-90006592
who was not allowed acess to her report, much less an opportunity to comment, and who is still waiting for DC Bar action and for whom Margolis has never said a positive word.
Heaven forbid that someone withing who went to the trouble of making sure that the discovery process was handled accurately should every be anything but referred for disbarral. Imagine the message it sends when someone takes to the candor to the tribunal requirement seriously.
That’s pretty funny freep – esp since Jeb only thinks that intellectual curiosity is needed in 2010 and 2012. Didn’t anyone tell him that’s so “pre-9-11″?
No, that uppity prole adhering to the Constitution thing and ethical rules cannot be tolerated. The people who did that to her must be protected at all cost though.
I am hoping that the Durham investigation is actively pursuiing these allegations of perjury that clearlu would backtrack back up the chain of command -Maybe Beaver has already been summoned to the Durham grand jury .
and bmaz before you come back at me with a snark – I say this as an eternal optimist -praying that its taking Durham so long at his task because he is being very thorough …
An excellent article, and crucial points. After the principals involved in the WH and DOJ, it’s the CIA that is given widest berth. (I think Ashcroft also refused to testify, btw.) The OPR doesn’t come out and always say directly the CIA lied, but there lay some of the groundwork (even if you did same over a year ago!).
I’d add that the CIA psychologists (and I’m not talking about the contractor-psychologists Mitchell and Jessen) get off scot free. They provide the “evidence” to Yoo that SERE’s “harsh interrogation techniques” don’t supposedly cause “long-term” damage. We know what docs JPRA provided, but we still don’t have this CIA doc, nor testimony from any of these psychologists. The likely candidates for latter include Kirk Hubbard, Joe Matarazzo (of M-J fame, who was also on the Professional Standards board of CIA at the time, per J. Mayer), and Scott Shumate, who accompanied Mitchell to Thailand, and then supposedly left, supposedly upset at the use of the EITs.
While those who signed off on torture, and those who gave the bogus legal rationale must be held to account… we need to also hold to account those who actually designed and implemented the program, and then lied about its effects… and those were the psychologists.
Does anyone wonder why they never asked actual doctors re the long-term effects of the torture. From the CIA OIG report, we know that OMS was frozen out of the process of vetting the torture program. Hm. The lawyers never thought it would make sense to ask, or rather, the whole thing was in CIA hands, and they wouldn’t let them talk to anyone but the people in operational charge of actually designing and running the program (the CIA psychologists).
Mickum used dropped the f-bomb, and I counted, 27 times during our interview. There will definitely have to be a parental rating on the story. He’s pissed to say the least, largely because he’s restricted from saying too much publicly that would contradict information in the report because the court papers in the case are sealed.
No snark, but I think that is far outside of Durham’s assigned jurisdiction. And, again, I sincerely, as I have always been, hope you are right on that and I am wrong. But I just do not see durham doing anything but some grunt level indictment; if he even does that, which I really doubt.
See, I’m liking the guy better all the time!
OT-
I know this is a busy news week, but I put up an article over at The Seminal about new public hearings by the Federal Crisis Inquiry Commission coming up soon…. I’d appreciate it if some of you would go over and give it a read.
Bob in AZ
Despite Harsh Criticism Of Torture Memos Report, Holder Has ‘Utmost Confidence’ In DOJ Ethics Office
Oy. All I can say is: Oy.
Well that’s okay, at least we will all be safe here in the “homeland”, the Senate has extended the Patriot Act and just for extra good measure, the Democrats backed out of adding any of the privacy protections they had promised. From MSNBC:
A voice vote. That would be so that the craven jackasses don’t have to be on the record for their sellout.
Well that’s OK, at least we will all be safe in our homes ’cause now the police can come in and make sure there aren’t any guns in our houses absolutely whenever they want to.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/2/24/840392/-Waving-goodbye-to-the-4th-Amendment
Kosinski’s good half rides again in a dissent; the bad news is, of course, that that’s the dissent and not the majority.
Fuckity fuck fuck.
Remember NOLA? Believe it or not, a crime and cover-up were investigated and successfully prosecuted.
Good thing the perps were not DOJ attorneys I guess, or this wouldn’t be possible.
The OPR investigates DoJ personnel; I get that part. But because of how this story worked, they also interviewed WH and CIA personnel. So I look back at EW’s interesting graphic above, and I think of a column that is missing. Did nothing suggest DoD to the OPR?
Others ahead of me in this very thread have thought of the DoD connection, and we all know it’s there.
You bad. Made my day (it’s not been good, so many thanks).
Kaye, I wonder how far into the past Panetta would have to search to set a baseline preBushco, with respect to the medical community*s *oversight*.
I date it to the day Patton’s army entered Dachau, and they decided to keep bring Dr. Hubertus Strughold and his aviation medical “research” to the United States, where Strughold became the “father of space medicine.”
His fate was not (for him) a sad one:
Glad you brought that up–I thought about it at one point. Mind you, Koester went on to work at DOD. But there seems to have been an implausible but effective firewall between CIA and DOD.
That’s not explanatin enough, mind you. But Yoo seems to have gone out of his way to have made sure this didn’t leak into DOD.
Repukes burn their own sheisters. Is it worth it to sacrifice your reputation…to risk your license to practice?
Mary, this is an interesting example and it’s part of a larger story I have been working on for a while. This is a little confusing, for me at least, but apparently, there are about 30 detainees who are being held based on their “associations” with Zubaydah and were apprehended based on information interrogators gleaned from Zubaydah (presumably through torture). But the government is not moving forward on any of the charges against Zubaydah it had previously made. Now the attorneys representing the other detainees picked up as a result of their alleged affiliation with Zubaydah are filing declarations protesting the fact that the government is trying to prosecute/hold their clients when they have backed off of every major claim against Zubaydah.
I am afraid I have not done a good job explaining this and promise it will read much better when I write it.
Addington was Assistant General Counsel at CIA fron ’81-’84. Any chance some of the unnamed four were friends from ‘way back?
OT but related to previous posts:
Acting Deputy Attorney General To Testify About OPR Report
By Andrew Ramonas | February 24, 2010
Here’s a short bio: http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/04/padag-under-reno-joins-the-criminal-division.html
It’s a pretty busy news week…
Bob in AZ
Not much online about Mr. Grindler, except he’s considered a very good white-collar defense attorney.
I did see that he played a minor role in the controversies around the Wen Ho Lee investigation and incarceration. According to the Senate investigation:
The judge who denied Dr. Lee a pretrial release, nevertheless admonished the government “to explore ways to loosen the severe restrictions currently imposed upon Dr. Lee while preserving the security of sensitive information.”
When Janet Reno told Grindler that there were protests about Lee not getting enough exercise time, Grindler wrote a memo back to her:
I can’t access the memo, but I wonder if Grindler mentioned that the exercise hour was conducted in shackles, and continued so until July 2000.
The subcommittee on Department of Justice Oversight concluded:
Not too much to go on here, but Grindler’s association with abusive conditions of imprisonment should be explored, given the nature of his testimony and appearance in this context.
alinaustex
Supposing there were some lurkers on this thread that actually did take the Oath to defend our Constitution and in so doing uphold Our Rule of Law- to heart.
Further suppose that these same lurkers also could see that the allegations of ongoing criminal conspiracy actually had merit and required further investigation . And if these same criminal conspirators were allegedly currently suborning federal officials to aid and abet the coverup the murder and torture of American citizens . Finally if these same criminal conspirators were not member of Bushcheney 43 -but some type of international organized crime syndicate would these same Lurkers who had taken that Oath to defend all of us be not demanding a full accounting of all these allegations – and denouncing those others in the Current Administration that ‘wanted to look forward and not backwards ” ?
Wow. First Margolis; now Grindler. Do you ever get the feeling that someone in Washington is making fun of the people’s right to know what government is doing in their name? There’s a Charlie Brown story in here somewhere.
OT, Disclosure win?
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202444499990&Judge_Disclosure_Obligation_in_Terror_Trial_Applies_to_Top_DOJ_Officials
It’s quite possible. Addington and Rizzo were at the Agency at the same time. Though that’d make said CTC lawyer pretty old.
He started on Feb 5, 2010. He’s been on the job 14 business days. This is who we get on this?
That’s so special. s/ (And I included President’s Day which is a Federal holiday.)
He has served as Principal Associate Deputy Attorney General since December 23, 2009, so he has got that extra month basically on the job. Before that though, in the Criminal Division completely out of anything remotely related to the OPR loop.
It really is pretty pathetic.
Yeh true, but he started in his current capacity on February 5th.
I was surprised to find this tidbit about King & Spalding, his former employer for 9 years. Perhaps it is a “clue” as to what will go down today?
(August 25, 2009)
And yet, the defender of Bush anti-terror legal policies (euphemism for torture), Paul Clement, went to work for King & Spalding.
So, who knows what Grindler might add to this parade.
Gives a much darker tone to “Project X,” as described by military historian William Astore in his recent TomDispatch: American Blitzkrieg: Loving the German War Machine to Death.
Ol’ Blood & Guts brought the Nazi torture doctor home and made a hero out of him? And then a “Cult of Clausewitz” grows deep in the bowels of the nation’s military elite in the form of what I’m assuming were super-duper-triple secret programs into which circles only Those Who Really Know are admitted? It’s like a drug gang, where the obscene violence is the drug.
Next thing we know, we’ve got a VP for Torture, and a bipartisan consensus on looking away from our crimes against humanity in the “national interest,” better known to the world as the interests of this cult of violence porn-addicted wannabe war gods.
The message these guys are interested in sending isn’t “good governance is good policy,” it’s more like, “We’re gods among men, above the law, don’t fuck with us.”
That bit about Patton’s army at Dachau just might be the roots of the “patriarchal cult of kinetic power” I’ve been on about, what Tom Engelhardt calls “a religion of Force.”
Thanks, JK, I bow, much obliged, in your virtual direction,
From your description of the Clausewitz doctrine, it sounds like the Neo-cons & Dick Cheney embraced it with full vigor, and that, at least during his first term, George W. Bush bought into it, too.
What Clausewitz, in his aristocratic arrogance, erroneously assumed, was that the public could be milked, ad infinitum, to pay for this monstrous war machine.
In essence, the Clausewitz doctrine was disproved when the Soviet Union went bankrupt at the end of the “Cold War,” which in retrospect seems like a very Clausewitzian game.
The limits of the Clausewitzian program were demonstrated in Vietnam, and are being demonstrated in Iraq and Afghanistan, where the final chapters have not yet been written.
Bob in AZ
According to Astore’s article, the fetish became policy as a reaction to Vietnam. And there’s a bipartisan motif here.
This machining of the planet into full-spectrum subjugation is occurring in the mythic context of the cosmos as god’s own, or no one’s own, perpetual motion justice-dispensing war machine. It’s odd that Astore invokes Bellona. It was our attempt to conquer Bellona that pissed her off? What about all the war-making devoted explicitly to Yahweh, the god of Abraham? What’s all that “onward Christian soldier” stuff and “fighting the Good Fight in Afghanistan” all about?
As if all this war were the fault of a pissed-off goddess. I’d say, it’s the myth of life as an artifact, a thing constructed by a political master endowed with limitless kinetic power, that makes us think of our masters of military violence as freakin’ meteorologists, not some esoteric goddess.
If anything, the proper goddess to invoke, the one we’ve so offended, isn’t one of war, it’s Mother Nature Herself. We may already be in Her waste stream, to be shat out for the hubris of our phallocentric priests, same as its ever been (metaphorically speaking, it’s more like the goose who lays the golden eggs has been strangled by greedy men once again).
For example, why do we await reports of “conditions on the ground” from high priests of the temples of kinetic power, generals and spy-masters and admirals oh my, as if they’re talking about the weather, when we know what they’re telling us is a cover story, a myth? Why do we believe them? It’s the mythology! Those symbols and narratives have the power to jack us around by remote control.
Our military machine is the greatest god of this mindset, the cosmogenetic force itself, making “collateral damage” not a problem, but a majestic display of their god’s awesome might; those aren’t dead and dismembered children, they’re blessings-generating ritualized human sacrifices, lucky stiffs. USA! USA! USA!
The high priests of DoD have assumed the role of GoD, I’m saying, and are busily jacking us with the power of myths even now. Bipartisan policy debates, more American kabuki, won’t change that. We need to address these guys on the mythic level, not merely politic or psychic. If for no other reason than holy warriors can kick the asses of academics all day long.
Where’s our fire in the belly coming from? Have we any passion, or are we too damn rational and sophisticated for righteous anger?
Also: Kucinich 2012!
Marcy/all
think you folks might be interested in this one over at Talk of the Nation
How The U.S. Approaches Targeted Killings[30 min 19 sec]
“Semantics are important here. Assassination is illegal under international law. Targeted and extrajudicial killings are, well, a gray area. We’re going to talk about the distinction and about U.S. policy from Fidel Castro to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi to Osama bin Laden, and some argue that missiles fired by CIA drones over Pakistan are little different than a poison-tipped umbrella on London’s Waterloo Bridge. Among our guests, Amos Guiora, who provided legal advice to the Israeli defense forces on targeted killings in Gaza.”
“Semantics are important here”, as Humpty Dumpty well knew:
We need to address these guys on the mythic level…Where’s our fire in the belly coming from? Have we any passion, or are we too damn rational and sophisticated for righteous anger?
It just bears repeating.
Good to see you here, btw!
Hi harpie, thanks, and same to ya. You got style.
As your Carroll quote makes clear, it’s the Word behind words that speaks with authority. “Mind not my words,” Robin Williams once said, “let the play say the thing. I’ll go backstage and touch myself anon.” (Meltdowner’s Nightmare, from the album Reality: What a Concept.)
What’s the Word behind the words of CTC to OLC? I think the lot of them have a bad case of wannabe war god. According to their fantasies, they should be the kings of the world by now, not hounded by their lessors about “law and order,” of all things. And if it wasn’t for restrictions on their use of kinetic power, even to torture, surely they’d have succeeded, right?
Sounds to me like dicking Lady Liberty into full-spectrum submission is their idea of the Good Life.