My last post called Jay Bybee’s response to the OPR Draft, written by Maureen Mahoney, “funny” (as in, stinky) because neither the response nor Tim Flanigan’s declaration included in the response provided any details of the key July 16, 2002 meeting described in the OPR report.
But there’s something about Mahoney’s response which is even funnier (as in, makes me want to vomit from vertigo).
Mahoney spends three pages of her response (PDF pages 81 to 84) trying to justify the Bybee Memo’s unsupported reliance on a ticking time bomb scenario. After spending most of the discussion focusing on whether self-defense was viable in court (asserting, “the Memo’s intended audience would have been well aware that a ticking time bomb scenario had yet not been tested in the U.S. courts”), Mahoney tries to refute the OPR Report’s argument that the ticking time bomb scenario was not a real world scenario.
OPR states that the Memo should have discussed a real world situation in which a defendant could prove that he reasonably anticipated that torture would produce information directly responsible for preventing an immediate impending attack. But see id. at 31 n.17 (mentioning the ticking time bomb scenario as precisely such a real world situation)46
Which connects to this footnote.
Indeed, the OLC attorneys working on the 2002 Memo had been briefed on the apprehension of Jose Padilla on May 8, 2002. Padilla was believed to have built and planted a dirty bomb-a radiological weapon which combines radioactive material with conventional explosives-in New York City. It is easy for OPR, seven years removed from the horror of 9/11 to scoff at the notion of a ticking time bomb scenario, but the context in which these memos were written simply cannot be forgotten.
In other words, Maureen Mahoney, with a metaphorical straight face, points to the claim that Jose Padilla had “was believed to have built and planted a dirty bomb” to support her claim that the ticking time bomb is a realistic scenario!
Jose Padilla, of course, was arrested based on claims made by Abu Zubaydah. The dirty bomb claim–particularly the claim that Padilla had planted a dirty bomb, as opposed to just discussed the idea with Abu Zubaydah–seems to have come as a result of Abu Zubaydah’s torture. That torture was retroactively authorized by a memo signed by Maureen Mahoney’s client.
And now Mahoney is using evidence derived from that torture to argue that the claims in that memo were justified.
So to prove that this ticking time bomb thing is a “real world situation,” Mahoney points to evidence that exemplifies, instead, how easily torture reproduces the fictions that haunt the imagination of the people administering the torture. Maureen Mahoney points to one of the most glaring examples of the lies that torture produces as the “real world situation” of Yoo and Bybee as they retroactively authorized the torture that created that false “real world situation.”



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EW, this may have no significance other than synchronicity, but John Walker Lindh,aka American Taliban ,pled guility to two charges just the day BEFORE,in federal court. Here’s some info re: gag order on his alleged torture :
The court scheduled an evidence suppression hearing, at which Lindh would have been able to testify about the details of the torture to which he claimed he was subjected. The government faced the problem that a key piece of evidence — Lindh’s confession — might be excluded from evidence as having been forced under duress.
To forestall this possibility, Michael Chertoff, then-head of the criminal division of the U.S. Department of Justice, directed the prosecutors to offer Lindh a plea bargain, to which, Lindh would plead guilty to two charges: — serving in the Taliban army and carrying weapons. He would also have to consent to a gag order that would prevent him from making any public statements on the matter for the duration of his 20-year sentence, and he would have to drop any claims that he had been mistreated or tortured by U.S. military personnel in Afghanistan and aboard two military ships during December 2001 and January 2002. In return, all other charges would be dropped.
Lindh accepted this offer. On July 15, 2002, he entered his plea of guilty to the two remaining charges. The judge asked Lindh to say, in his own words, what he was admitting to. Lindh’s allocution went as follows: “I plead guilty”, he said. “I provided my services as a soldier to the Taliban last year from about August to December. In the course of doing so, I carried a rifle and two grenades. I did so knowingly and willingly knowing that it was illegal.”~~~~~~~~~~Wiki
The further problem with Mahoney blaming Padilla for the ticking time bomb scenario is that Padilla was arrested in Chicago O’Hare, immediately after getting off a flight from Pakistan, which was where he allegedly had learned how to build a “dirty bomb”.
AFAIK, Padilla was not in New York until the USG took him there after arresting him in Chicago, and was always in custody in NY. So, if he was planting a “dirty bomb” in NY, either he was doing so while in custody (which reflects very badly on the professionalism of federal law enforcement), or he allegedly did so before he went to Pakistan (pre-9/11 IIRC) and pre-learning how to make one. I don’t remember offhand whether Padilla ever was in NYC prior to being arrested in Chicago (which he might have been because he had a NY lawyer representing him before Mukasey when he was seeking habeas, before he was whisked into military custody) though my recollection is that he was a Chi-town gang-banger and had no ties to NY. His NY lawyer might have been court-assigned – I forget offhand.
The latter possibility – planting a dirty bomb then going to Pakistan – then further implicates the professionalism of US law enforcement, because such a dirty bomb would have lain undiscovered for who-knows-how-many months while Padilla was out of the country. It also implicates the unlikelihood of any such dirty bomb actually having worked, because if it were primed and armed it would/should have gone off in those intervening months and, as we know, there was no dirty bomb that went off in NY.
So I believe it entirely reasonable to conclude, for entirely different temporal reasons, Mahoney is further full of shit.
I think I should have posted this on the previous thread, becuse this Lindh pleading could have explained to some degree why Chertoff said “You cant write a get out of jail free card,” the very next day,July 16, the day of the “Yoo” meeting.
Interesting. Thanks.
Yeah, I was going to point that out. Or rather, the fact that when they came to “believe” he had a “ticking time bomb” he had been in custody for some time.
In other words: “Say anything to stop the torture” came into play there, too.
One wonders who put the whole idea of a dirty bomb into high-school dropout Padilla’s head.
Probably the same guy who put his handprint on the AQ job application.
This here is Alice in Wonderland justice and security.
…apprehension of Jose Padilla on May 8, 2002. Some would say that Padilla was believed to have built…
There, fixed her sloppy draftswomanship.
I’ve linked to this book many times and have made this point many times. The legal reasoning for the “ticking time bomb defense” came from Israel.
A note to Mahoney, Bybee and Yoo:
If you write a legal memo about methods/practices which have an historical context (Spanish Inquisition, Gestapo, Khmer Rouge) in the development of international policies/laws against such torture practices; then you must write specific explanations about how the use of such practices could be different from their use in the historical contexts. There is nothing written in the documents that sets apart the US pratices from the historical practices.
Torture is neither proportionate nor allowed due to motive.
Nothing in any of the documents off-sets these facts. Especially a ticking time bomb defense.
Hope you used permanent “stick ‘um” when you put that message on certain bulletin boards, klynn?
And most especially, when that “defense” is merely bald assertion, simply fearful and frightening imaginings, and not, by any stretch, verifiable fact.
If such wisdoms wish, at some point, to assert that someone simply lost either their way or, simply, their minds, then, these wisdoms must seek some other “defense” of criminal behaviors. (And seek not to condone it, unless they choose to align themselves, for all time, with the “philosophy” of the behavior itself.)
However I doubt that either Congress or the Courts will insist upon any such thing, as so far, their own complicity in the suppression of truth, speaks much more loudly.
In our names, our nation has, already, tortured human beings.
Why now might there be any qualms, from on high, with torturing truth?
DW
O.T.
EW- Diary is up at The Seminal.
LINK:
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/31358
Need to minor proof edit and add a few links. Will do asap.
I think it’s a mistake to think that there is “reasoning” here, in the sense of, Mahoney is using poor “reasoning”. Everything about this has the smell of panic, of trying to write something, anything, that uses some key legal words and some key political words to try to ward off the inevitable. It’s the difference between an improvised barricade and the Atlantic Wall. You go to war with the walls you’ve got.
Also, re: ticking-bomb–if you’re the sort of President who isn’t bothererd by the moral issues, isn’t there a perfectly serviceable mechanism in place already via a Presidential pardon? If there really were a ticking bomb scenario that were prevented via “enhanced interrogation,” does anyone think there would be even a microsecond of hesitation before the Presidential apparatus claimed credit for it? And if the President has tasked departments full of lawyers to shield himself from the interrogation, isn’t that a pretty unambiguous signal that it’s not a ticking bomb scenario?
Perfect.
Thank you.
“say anything to stop the torture”
How much did Cheney want someone to say 9/11 and Iraq were connnected?
How many interrogation experts say that torture does not produce actionable intelligence
Anyone who has advised senior government or corporate executives knows damn well that whatever they “know”, they expect to be told and reminded about it in full context, in writing, by their lawyers and advisers before they make a decision. That is, unless they’ve already made a decision and decided on their course of action. In that case, they want absofuckinglutely nothing in writing that would suggest they were adequately told that their intended conduct was fucking stupid, illegal or wrongful.
Apologies if this has already been linked somewhere among all the excellent articles flowing rapidly from EW’s keyboard.
Republican senator denies he approved destruction of CIA torture videos
Robertson.
So history classes and law school was not enough? s/
Someone once said something about “street smarts”, but I imagined clever roadways. Finding one’s car in an empty car park is quite enough challenge, thank you.
And then there’s that June 2002 memo from Bybee to Ashcroft, where Bybee says that Padilla didn’t have any bomb materials on him or access to any that they could find.
Apparently, though, all you need to make an H-Bomb is a bucket. /s
I’m with you on that.
That’s the takeaway I got, as well, with the “cross-confirmations” of Zubaydah and al-Libi and al-Faruq (among others) each certifying that one or more of the others was high level al-Qaeda operative, after the memo came out in Aug that you were covered for torture IF the detainee was a high level al-Qaeda operative. Doesn’t that help on the intel front too – when you have to torture out false info that you know is false info, so you can use the false info to protect you for having tortured …
It’s so darn circular.
Really? There was such a memo? And Mahoney still used this?
Seriously, I think Mahoney is hte best lawyer involved in this whole fiasco (with the possible exception of Mark Filip, if we’re counting judges). But this is jsut pathetic.
Indeed. Eventually, one might think of looking in a car park that has some cars in it.
Bob in AZ
O.T. To E.W.
I finally got the links and etc fixed on the diary.
Have to go for a while.
Tooshay.
EOH @ 19/23 and bobschact @ 23
Thank you. I needed that snark!