In a conference call focused closely on the possibility of moving health care through reconciliation, Arlen Specter invoked Justice Jackson’s comment to justify his support for putting health care through the reconciliation process. He said Jackson’s comment–that “the Constitution is not a suicide pact”–would be considered applicable to stale-mated government. He later said he’d like to “find a way out of the quagmire we’re in.”
Specter said he did not, however, support efforts to eliminate the filibuster, even saying he would not support Senator Harkin’s efforts to change the rules of the filibuster, since it would not preserve the filibuster’s current function.
As to reconciliation, Specter seemed to ascribe his change of heart from his earlier reluctance to support reconciliation to seeing the number of precedents for which reconciliation had been used: SCHIP, Medicare Advantage, Welfare Reform, and COBRA. He referred to a list of 22 examples, used by both parties.
There was some discussion of the public option. I asked why people were so hesitant to support the public option given the polling showing it was more popular than the health care bill itself. Specter suggested the polls might not be accurate, that perhaps people had not analyzed what the public option would do. I asked whether that was why his colleagues were opposed, and he said he had not had these discussions in the Senate cloakroom. But he got the sense that the opposition to the public option was instead coming from the public.
In almost the same breath, Specter described the concern among everyone about diving poll numbers. Now, Specter is on the record as supporting the public option. But I sure got the sense that his heart is not in it, because of his poll numbers.
But Specter did not have the same concern about pushing health care reform through via reconciliation. So pushing through what Republicans are spinning as a backroom deal (cyncially, I know), is okay. But pushing through a popular policy is bad.
I did ask Specter about two Senate Judiciary related issues. I asked whether he had seen the OLC memo written to retroactively authorize the exigent letters (and some other things). He has not seen it.
And I asked when he had come to supporting Dawn Johnsen. He said it was after his second meeting with Johnsen. I clarified–that was back in May? He said that sounds about right. But then he quickly pivoted and said that “when the President felt very strongly about her and renominated her, he felt he would support her.”
In other words, as bmaz has covered, Specter has supported Johnsen since last May. Which means the Dems have had the votes for her since Al Franken was sworn in.



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It looks like being primaried by Joe Sestak has pushed snarlin’ Arlen to the left– in some cases, to the left of Sestak! It seems that becoming a Democrat, and then facing a primary contest, has had a salutory effect on Arlen’s positions.
Bob in AZ
Nice work on questioning Specter on the OLC memos.
For reconciliation and the filibuster, I really think you are all barking up the wrong tree. You are making the bad assumption that the GOP will not once again take over the Senate. Sooner or later this is going to happen. Sooner or later, the GOP will once again control all three arms of Exec and Leg.
On the day that happens, all those things you don’t want to see happen will happen.
The country will begin to swing from one extreme to the other as elections throw things back and forth.
The country is very far from suicide, unless you define “suicide” as one party not being able to get its way.
The Constitution was also never designed send the country reeling from one side to the other as elections blow hot or cold. It seemed the general intent was to keep it from going from one extreme to the other. It has often been commented that it purposely made it difficult to do anything easily.
The GOP doesn’t like to include Dems in their ideas either. The fact both can’t get along at this moment in history doesn’t mean we should change.
Unless we want the new rule to be, “If you don’t want to include any ideas from the other side (not talking about table scraps) in your legislation, use reconciliation,” I wouldn’t go down that route because one day, you will see some things pass that you dearly don’t want to pass, and it won’t be health care without a public option.
You’re assuming I support reforming the filibuster.
I don’t. Even assuming Dems keep Congress, Mitch McConnell will be able to game any set of rules better than even Schumer (assuming he would replace Reid), much less Reid.
Furthermore, given the inordinate representation the Senate gives the most conservative parts of the country, and given the number of conservative Dems from precisely those places, I think getting rid of the filibuster owuld be a disaster for progressives.
Value of the primary. Keep pushing, Admiral.
And btw, he pretty clearly had no fucking clue what I was talking about, but that may have been my fault bc I was trying to get a read of whether he thought the OLC memo had anything to do with teh warrantless wiretap program.
Just my two cents, but I think one of the primary reasons both the White House and the Senate Democrats are unwilling to pass a Public Option is that their conclusion is that to do so would subject them to criticism that providing government-provided/managed health insurance is Socialism.
And to be factual, it may in fact be socialism, but with a small “s”.
Just like Medicare, another instance of government-provided/managed health insurance, is also a “socialism” with a small “s” as opposed to “free-market” (a codeword for “for profit”) provided health insurance.
The problem arises because the rightwing (Repugs and other sundry anti-government yahoos) have successfully demonized the word social, and its offshoots such as socialism.
Scrapple’s counter-reality insistence that “the polls might not be accurate” with regard to the public’s approval of the PO is really no more than the wishful thinking of a coward fearful of the demonization that will surely occur should a PO be passed.
The White House and the Senate Democrats do have real reasons to fear this guaranteed Repug demonization. It will indeed happen.
That said, fear of demonization should never justify doing what is right.
Politicians however, claim a constitutional privilege to avoid doing what is right in order to succumb and surrender to fear. And they swear it’s written somewhere in the actual Constitution!
OK. I understand. Good.
I didn’t like the filibuster for 6 years, 2000 to 2006, but I wouldn’t ever want to change it.
Yes, but you showed he had no clue, which is good to know.
And I’m still not backing down from my SWAG that it was the Repugs all last year who blocked a Dawn Johnsen vote to head the OLC until they got an official OPR
whitewashexoneration of the former Repug OLC denizens Yoo and Bybee.So there! Pfffft! *g*
If I may correct this:
To be this instead:
Sheesh! Note to self: Self, use the Preview feature!
Good work with Specter. I believe early in his career Specter was more idealistic.
DahliaLithwick wrote a characteristically humorous yet seething evaluation of the Margolis expiation of YooCo recently. I would like to see Specter taking some of her arguments in his approach to releasing the hold on her nomination, if, indeed, there is such a hold.
So is Reid incompetent or was a decision made to not take a vote?
There was a decision not to take a vote.
The opposition to the public option is coming from the “public”, Senator? Which public would that be, the public that works on K Street, in the smoking room in the Senate or the one the lives and works on Main Street? Because it sure looks a lot more popular than the neutered health “reform” legislation or the Senate itself.
arlen specter would crucify jesus again, following the second coming, if polls of penn voters showed specter this would help him win another term.
specter is the reincarnation ( keeping to our theme) of gollum.
he has the morals of a whelk.
if penn voters put this political chameleon back in power, they deserve what they will get,
and so does the democratic party.
Jiminy Crickets!
Markos Moulitsas was on KO just now, and I swear he reiterated all of my points on the PO from my comment at # 6 above.
And what’s really throwing me, is that he was using some of the very same words that I used such as “doing what is right…” and “demon…”
If Markos is hanging around here, “do what is right” and sign in. *g*
“government-provided/managed health insurance is Socialism”
Not at all.
1) It would hang the Heath Insurance Companies out to dry with their crappy business mode.
2) It would drive a stake through the mantra “private enterprise can do things” and call into question the viability of every large corporation in a saturated market.
The first point is tactical. The second a thermonuclear weapon.
The Democrats have proven spineless about Republican demonization of many words. For example, they allowed the demonization of “Liberal” with barely a peep of protest or pushback.
The socialism schtick may not have that much valence any more– Most of the bad associations are 50 years old (IIRC, the Nazi’s were a “socialist” party, and during the 50s, Joe McCarthy constantly associated socialism with Communism). But nowadays, we already have a “Socialist” Senator (Bernie Sanders), who appears on some TV stations with some regularity. We need a way to talk favorably about socialism.
Bob in AZ
Then go for it!
Every time I hear Beck or some other right winger characterize the Senate HCR bill or “Obama’s HCR plan” as socialism, I want to grab them by the hair, and say, “That’s not a socialist plan. Single payer with a health insurance industry left to do nothing but market cosmetic surgery plans to the rich would be a socialist plan.”
“That’s not a knife. THIS is a knife.”
(Yoo-related: I posted a few goodies I pulled from the John Yoo brief filed Friday in the Jose Padilla case back on the Flanigan thread)
Please take no offense since none is intended, but are you disagreeing with my point that the demonized tag of “Socialism” if passing a PO is not the or a overiding factor in the minds of the White House and the Senate Democrats?
If the GOP was blocking it, Obama and Rahm were happy to let them. “If we push for Dawn now, then the GOP will dig in their heels against health care.” After all, nothing could get in the way of collecting bi-partisan support for health care — including Dawn Johnsen.
My, that worked out well, didn’t it. Heckuva legislative strategy, fellas.
The demonization of “socialism, small ‘s’”, and as you point out, many other words by the Repugs is and has been a deliberate strategy for decades.
Democrats don’t seem to understand this, nor have they marshalled the viable arguments (lack of trying foremost in my opinion) to debunk the Repugs strategy.
Some of the arguments should be pretty simple to understand such as (again, I speak of “socialism” with a small “s”):
1. Libraries – a “socialistic” system by government for providing the public with access to reading material.
2. Water systems – a “socialistic” system by government for providing the public with access to drinking water.
3. Roads – a “socialistic” system by government for providing the public with the ability to travel easily and efficiently.
4. Fire and Police departments – a “socialistic” system by government for providing the public safety and law enforcement.
5. Military – a “socialistic” system by government for providing the public with a national defense.
And many, many more.
If Repugs are against “socialism” with a small “s”, then they oppose the very things that governments are devised for to provide for the common good.
Health insurance is basically nothing more than a set of administrative functions to provide payment for medical services.
In my view, it is a stellar example of something that governments are devised for. Again, to provide for the common good.
The fear factor that the Repugs raise with regard to a Public Option for health insurance is in my view, no more than their illogical, and perhaps even crazy, antipathy towards the very idea of government.
In the end, this is exactly what the Repugs stand for. They are against the very idea of government.
Kudos again for your commentary!
That single bullet theory was pretty ideal all right.
Yeah, and I’ve yet to see an “explanation” from my loyal opposition (*g*) as to why they believe the Democrats blocked a Dawn Johnsen vote.
Well, aside from the libraries, water systems, roads, fire and police departments, and the military, what have the Romans ever done for us?
I mean, what has the government ever done for us?
Harry Reid had the votes, and chose not to put it on the agenda of the Senate because he bought the whole notion of “let’s not piss off the GOP by pushing Dawn forward, so we can get their support on health care.” That’s your explanation.
Fear-driven leadership is a painful thing to behold.
Ahh, Romans. Furriners. Can’t trust no furriners!
As if we all didn’t originally come from the Old World.
US [Supreme] court urged to define ‘material support’ for terrorism
Decision due in June. Should be interesting.
There speaks volumes!
Sure, but some of us got genes from the New World, too. Makes for some interesting contradictions.
Fear-driven leadership is not leadership (as you and all of us know).
A bunch of scum-sucking cowards is a painful thing to behold.
There, I fixed it for you.
Even the original Americans came from the Old World. Earlier yes, but still from “not here”.
As in furriners! *g*
Well, according to contemporary research and wisdom (*ahem*), we all go back to Africa. So, we are all furriners–except them whut is still there, I rekkin.
They lent us their ears, didn’t they?
I’ve got a few extra ears from my mustachioed campaigns in the bloody desert, if y’all needs some.
Have your people call my people and we’ll do the cannibal thingy. Rather deplorable, but quite harmless fun. After all, the contributing chaps have been dead for over a thousand years.
I daresay that unfortunate putz, Obama, could use a mustachio, another suit, and something other than a white shirt.
His ears are rather quite suited to the task, ahem!
O/T: Pretty amazing little article by Spencer regarding Blackwater and South Park. Really.
bob schacht @18
[ "...The Democrats have proven spineless about Republican demonization of many words. For example, they allowed the demonization of “Liberal” with barely a peep of protest or pushback..." ]
yes, indeed, bob.
the dems of the 1980′s, 90′s, and 00′s behaved just that way – spinelessly.
’tis a shame.
the is NO word better than “LIBERAL” to describe the entire american political experience form 1776 to 1980.
that democrats in power would not defend being a liberal meant that they themselves no longer had faith in american liberalism.
it also meant that, in the face of “welfare-queen” demonizations,
american national democratic politicans lacked the historical knowledge, the intellectual acuity, and the political courage to articulate to the american people what being a liberal had meant in the past and would mean in the future.
you may recall that “welfare-queen” (cum white cadillac) was one of that amiable dunce ronald reagans’s favorite rhetorical phrases – designed to remind democrat whites of what they disliked about blacks.
as an aside, does the use of “welfare-queen” rhetoric by a republican politician bring to mind any contemporary events?
it does me.
how about james o’keefe’s video attack on accorn?
next time a good liberal get all bent out of shape by someone’s use of a racial slur,
let him or her reflect on the sophisticated racial “slurs” of republican guerrilla, james o’keefe -
did without the use of even one word that a liberal would have considered uncouth, racist, or illiberal.
Perfect example of cognitive dissonance. Too bad it’s from a Democrat.
Make up your mind Specter – do you live by the polls or not?
Music for the way things are of late:
Dust off those old surround phones for this one. Youtube video is about one-third of the piece; the rest, of course, is way different. Can’t find video, unfortunately.
Entire work on either Big Fun or The Complete Bitches Brew Sessions, Miles Davis. Highly, highly recommended.
o/t…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100224/ts_nm/us_usa_security_interrogation
The cure to Cheney’s heart ache.
They knew exactly what we were doing…I didn’t do it alone. And…it worked!!!!
Well here we go.
An intel document war.
It’s hard to know what they were told for sure…how did they describe enhanced interrogation…I notice the article does not state this.
Yep. Remember Judicial Watch is a conservative organization which tends to focus on trying to throw a negative news cycle irt Repugs and tilt towards Dems.
I found the doc release timing interesting. And the way the docs are interpreted is even more interesting.
Arlin,
My disgusting Senator
Single bullet
Clarance Thomas
Inserted the wording to replace 9 US Attorneys without congressional oversight because of TERROR.
Retire already!
There is simply no real evidence of this MadDog. There has been no formal hold placed on Johnsen at any point, even by a Republican, that I can find. If there was never any GOP hold, and there were 60 votes available for confirmation, and there almost unequivocally were since Franken was sworn in, then you just cannot blame it on the Republicans. The failings are entirely on the White House and Democrats.
Saying it’s the White House and Democrats doesn’t explain it.
And that is the point I’m trying to distinguish here.
There has been zero reasonable explanations from anyone about just why the White House and Democrats would do such a thing.
Mind you, I’m not suggesting there couldn’t be a reason. Just that there has been no sensible reason reported or admitted.
Of course they have not made any “reasonable explanations”; they don’t have any, that is why they spew the big bad GOP garbage. They just do not really want her in the job, my guess is ever, but certainly not until they have cleaned up their war on terror issues to the detriment of the rule of law and Constitution.
Contrary to your argument, just “saying” it is Republican obstructionism does not explain diddly shit; especially when there is empirical evidence that is not the case at all. When you have at least 60 votes, majority control, there are no GOP holds whatsoever and you never call a vote; it is simply NOT an issue of Republican obstructionism.
Not to beat a dead horse here, but I’m apparently in a “beat a dead horse” mood. *g*
Contrary to your argument, just “saying” it is White House and Democratic failings does not explain diddly shit either. *g*
Do you see where I’m going here? I’m saying that there is no sensible explanation period, full stop.
As to your “empirical evidence”, I can make the case that there is such thing at all.
For example, how about that 60 vote thing?
If one were to make the case that the Senate Democrats did not truly have their 60 votes, that might be a sensible explanation. Ben Nelson’s opposition to abortion surely come’s to mind, and then there are the rest of the usual suspects like Joe Lieberman and Blanche Lincoln who have a habit of standing in the way of 60 votes.
I’ve not stated that there ever was a “public” Repug hold. The wild-ass guess I suggested was that the Repugs, via somebody like Orrin “Leave no fingerprints” Hatch, played hardball and wouldn’t allow a vote on Dawn Johnsen to proceed (their 40 votes plus 1 objecting Democrat for example), until and unless the former OLC denizens Yoo and Bybee got officially exonerated.
Granted, that is just my tinfoil hat conspiracy theory rambling, but it has at least the same level of “evidence” as any other theory.
By which I mean, there’s no “evidence” for anyone’s “theory” to be had at all.
So the point is again that you claim there is no evidence of an explanation for Repugs to block a Dawn Johnson vote, and I claim there is no evidence of an explanation for Democrats to block a Dawn Johnson vote.
What we’re both showing here is that there is simply no sensible explanation for the lack of a Dawn Johnson vote.
What did Specter do to push health care reform forward when he was a Republican? Or as a Democrat before he was a Republican before he was a Democrat?
Sestak is closing in on Specter. Totally behind Sestak
No, the only potential opposition in the Dem caucus, from the outset was Nelson and Specter. Specter has point blankedly stated he was going to support her since May of last year. Nelson has point blankedly stated he was never asked by the WH to support her, and has not indicated what he would have done. But even if you assume Nelson would join a filibuster on his own President’s nominee getting an up or down vote (which is extremely rare), there are still 60 votes because Dick Lugar has been an ardent supporter from the outset. I will send further info by email.
I think the SCOTUS begs to differ.
Exhibit 1: the decision striking down the DC gun law from a year or so back.
Exhibit 2: Citizens United v. FEC
Citizens United v. FEC (unlimited corporate political speech is okey-dokey).
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen emptywheel and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Since when does anyone listen to ANYthin’ Arlen The Spector has to say. This guy has been at least 3 slices short of a whole loaf for over 30 years and he’s the pefect example of a third rate political bagman. He represents the original corporate shill who started as a Democrat, switched to Republicrat and then switched back to lick the boots of whoever will pay his frieght back into the Senate.
I’m gettin’ tired of Rahm Emmanuel speakin’ through sockpuppets like Spector and Jello Jay Rockefeller…when is Obama gunna realize that Rahm’s only purpose in life is to kill the Democratic Party?
And we know we’re down to the bottom of the argument when BOTH the fascist Republicans and the corporate Democrats are just makin’ stuff up about what is popular and what is not…JESUS, the public option has been pollin consistently between 60% and 70% with significant numbers of independents AND Republicans for about 6 months and now the representative of the walkin’ dead in the Senate is tellin’ us that we really don’t like it.
Does Obama really think he’s clever enough to get the people to poke out their lyin’ eyes because Arlen Spector says so??!!! My God…only in Amurka!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, MAKE THIS NIGHTMARE END!!
So Spectar thinks that the people are so dumb that can’t respond with understanding to a simple poll question. Senator, I have watched Senators and Congressman question witnesses at hearings (with their staffs working behind them) and ask some of the dumbest questions ever put forth that have demonstrated that many in the public have more knowledge about a subject than a Senator or a Congressman. Senator, the public may not know every detail about the public option or medicare buy-in that has been proposed, but we know that without the initial passing of some kind of public option we will never have ANY alternative to the corrupt extortion of private health care. You were elected to represent our wishes, not elected to decide what is best for us as if we were a bunch of small children incapable of understanding the world. The support for a public option has a larger majority than almost any legislative idea in decades. If Democrats can’t deliver it, the voters will cast them out for challengers that will.
“There was some discussion of the public option. I asked why people were so hesitant to support the public option given the polling showing it was more popular than the health care bill itself. Specter suggested the polls might not be accurate, that perhaps people had not analyzed what the public option would do. I asked whether that was why his colleagues were opposed, and he said he had not had these discussions in the Senate cloakroom. But he got the sense that the opposition to the public option was instead coming from the public.”
OMG! What a bunch of horseshit!
Slightly OT, the HP is reporting that the WH is quietly gearing up for Mr. Bipartisan’s reelection.
Hear! Hear!
Jane has a fresh cross-post already in progress: Ruth Marcus Does the Health Care Vote Math
This country has always been socialist to one extent or another. Taxes for government existed before the US was created and did not stop with independence. Nor was that one of the goals of those that fought to free their country. They complained about taxation without representation.
Whenever I hear the crazies talk about the evils of socialism I want to recommend what the righties told the anti-war crowd in the 60s and 70s. Move to a country that is closer to what you want. My first recommendation given the current state things would be either China or Vietnam, either of which have no social security nor much of any other kind of common social safety net. Some of the middle eastern countries like Saudi Arabia, with it’s highly profitable invented monarchy might be a bit closer to the mark but Rwanda might be a darn good fit.
Bmaz and maddog, The allusion I had in mind about the *hold*/*no-hold*, was a parenthetical in an interview from DeMint a few weeks ago, as if he (accidentally revealed some maneuver of his)/was simply being garrulous and faking a threat to *hold*.
maddog, socialized, how about socializing Indian gaming. I wonder if Democrats would like that idea; sounds *liberal*.
It is abundantly evident that on public option, the PUBLIC is clearly optional.
So the greatest deliberative body in the world and its members don’t ask and don’t tell about why they make unpopular decisions that are also bad policy decisions.