Comments on: Germany: US Data-Mining Violates European Human Rights

By: bluesky

bluesky — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:51:35 +0000

My general feeling is that Germany is weakening on its excellent data-protection laws, though I hope I am wrong and wish the principled Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger well.

Here is an article in SpiegelOnline from the 15th, outlining the current status of the draft agreement on what snooping will be allowed by the US. It does not sound good, once again finding that the answer to The Terrorists is an abrogation of hard earned civil protections. The EU apparently recognizes that the

Terrorist Finance Tracking Program has been helpful in identifying and seizing terrorists

and has been of

particular value for the member states of the European Union.

They fail to cite any specific examples though.

The requirements for the US are not as stringent as for the EU generally/specific states. The Berlin data protection representative Alexander Dix is quoted as saying in October that the

US authorities were given powers that are denied to the German authorities because they are prohibited by the Constitution.

The Spiegel also says that

the data released in the course of the US-requests will also be handed over to the security and anti-terror units of the EU member states as well as Europol or Eurojust. (my translation)

Hopefully enough EU-representatives such as Jan Philipp Albrecht (from the Green Party) who find the planned agreement

an affront to the European Parliament

will do something about it.

Here is the article:

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/0,1518,660597,00.html

or in translation from Google Translate:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fnetzwelt%2Fnetzpolitik%2F0%2C1518%2C660597%2C00.html&sl=de&tl=en

By: alinaustex

alinaustex — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:59:57 +0000

lawordisorder@ 19
Its very simple -either we return to the best practices and better angels of our forebears ( we did after all hang two Japanese Generals for waterboarding allied troopers in the the Philippines ) OR .. we are doomed to go down a very dark path of debauchery and lawlessness. My one particular hope is that it was rouge elements of the last administration -the infamous Team B ( Perris are you lurking ?) that my other hope says that Team Obama will eventually get around to bringing to account .
I have faith that we will eventually find our Better Angels -meanwhile I ‘ll keep my powder dry figuratively and literally …

By: Hmmm

Hmmm — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:59:29 +0000

That last is a subtle and beautiful thought. Thank you.

By: lawordisorder

lawordisorder — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:03:13 +0000

Id say thats a sure bet..and its there..not so much in everyday life…. but the way we Europeans look at things…sorta way…my bet as we look in to this torture abyss we need to come to terms that we could have gone down the same way….and thats a pretty big horse pill to swallow…nobody knows that more than the Germans….. lets just say there in the lead on the healing front and they now the does and don’ts are walking away from the abyss as im just a simpel soldier i put this to all the thinkers

Is The real gift of justice it lets us learn the “story” and thereby help the community, the involved to heal? as in how did we end up in this mess in the first place?

Just my five cents worth

By: alinaustex

alinaustex — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:21:16 +0000

The Germans must be unwilling to return to the days of the Stassi,- would that the United States take that hard earned lesson from those who know what a true police state is -and how far down that slippery slope we here have slid.
Truly a Brave New World is knocking at our collective door …

By: bobschacht

bobschacht — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:47:50 +0000

There’s a historical maxim about “The penalty of taking the lead” (Veblen, 1915). We took the lead, and now others (Europe, China, Japan) are taking our measure, watching what we say and what we do, and measuring us against our putative values. And as we start to sink into the slime of our own making, the second tier of nations are taking note, and choosing their own way.

Veblen formulated this idea after watching the gradual decline of the British alongside the ascendancy of Germany (Imperial Germany and the Industrial Revolution). Sooner or later, it will happen to us. But we can postpone the day if we can adapt, and prevent the hardening of the arteries that so often afflicts leading institutions and countries.

Bob in AZ

By: lawordisorder

lawordisorder — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:50:17 +0000

As to the why of the fact that the there’s still a server in Belgium my guess is this…but before anyone go overboard on the constitution look at the fact that its under international control and therefore subject to some kind of “checks and balance” in the mere fact that also you might wanna look at the reasons…that to me says something about the way you guys do biznes within the legislative body…

http://www.nato.int/docu/review/2009/FinancialCrisis/Financial-terrorist-attack/EN/index.htm

Just my five cents worth

By: lawordisorder

lawordisorder — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:19:39 +0000

Just as a small example of what impact the court of human rights can have i found this messing up my coffee maker

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200809/ldjudgmt/jd090610/af-1.htm

I’d say that was a TD for human rights that day, but then again i can’t find the manual for that silly game :-)

Not perfect…but then again what is

Just my five cents worth

By: lawordisorder

lawordisorder — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:59:12 +0000

ahemmmm but as these gents we are(amherst’s and all)…..after all this our dearest friends and allies were talking about, we would not engage in such slezy….materes
unless to inform the US public of true events….such as who do what by who’s checkbook say in chambers of commerce, not saying we did…but then again…. who really knows ay?

Just my five cents worth

By: earlofhuntingdon

earlofhuntingdon — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:17:54 +0000

Not all Germans are interested only in fussball, maedchens and bier, though that pretty much captures what American papers are interested in, too. The EU has the kind of data protection regime Americans can only dream about, because their businesses and government actively fought against adopting the EU model, which is the one used as a model for virtually every other developed world. The US has a hodgepodge of data rules precisely to avoid having clear and consistent protections for personal data. It has explicitly enabled a free for all for the benefit of private gain. Your cable company might make as much money trolling your viewing habits – data on which it claims to own – and commercializing its data for marketing purposes, as it does from your monthly billing.

Europeans also have a court of human rights, something that’s covered hit and miss via our federal courts and state courts like, ahem, those in Texas.

The US is also not above the global phenomenon of corporate espionage. Having outsourced so much of its intel gathering and analysis, it’s doubtful the US could even affirm under oath that it doesn’t use such data to promote US businesses and undercut their foreign competition. More likely, that’s an explicit use of its “intelligence” work.