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	<title>Comments on: More NDCA Goodness: Judge Walker Denies Prop 8 Proponents&#8217; Motion</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/10/14/more-ndca-goodness-judge-walker-denies-prop-8-proponents-motion/</link>
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		<title>By: rxbusa</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/10/14/more-ndca-goodness-judge-walker-denies-prop-8-proponents-motion/#comment-194770</link>
		<dc:creator>rxbusa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/?p=5084#comment-194770</guid>
		<description>thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/10/14/more-ndca-goodness-judge-walker-denies-prop-8-proponents-motion/#comment-194723</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/?p=5084#comment-194723</guid>
		<description>And I have heard back from Ted Olson.  The trial is scheduled for January 11 and is set for NON jury status.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I have heard back from Ted Olson.  The trial is scheduled for January 11 and is set for NON jury status.</p>
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		<title>By: rxbusa</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/10/14/more-ndca-goodness-judge-walker-denies-prop-8-proponents-motion/#comment-194712</link>
		<dc:creator>rxbusa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/?p=5084#comment-194712</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That’s kind of a shame. I would love to have been called for that jury service.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah, me, too.  That&#039;s why I asked the question. When I heard the announcement on the radio for some reason I assumed it was going to be before a jury, but I don&#039;t remember exactly what it said to make me think that.

bmaz, thanks for the great explanation and for following up on my question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That’s kind of a shame. I would love to have been called for that jury service.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, me, too.  That&#8217;s why I asked the question. When I heard the announcement on the radio for some reason I assumed it was going to be before a jury, but I don&#8217;t remember exactly what it said to make me think that.</p>
<p>bmaz, thanks for the great explanation and for following up on my question.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/10/14/more-ndca-goodness-judge-walker-denies-prop-8-proponents-motion/#comment-194708</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/?p=5084#comment-194708</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I would argue that, at a minimum, intermediate scrutiny applies as opposed to mere rational basis.  whether that would carry the day or not I don&#039;t know, but that would be my argument.  It sure strikes me as sex based and fundamental conduct, which are the general criteria for intermediate.

As to whether it is a jury or bench trial, I don&#039;t know.  I checked PACER and Walker&#039;s pre-trial scheduling order discusses procedures for both jury and bench trials.  I emailed Ted Olson to ask him the status; will post the answer either here, or on a newer thread if this one is closed, when I find out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I would argue that, at a minimum, intermediate scrutiny applies as opposed to mere rational basis.  whether that would carry the day or not I don&#8217;t know, but that would be my argument.  It sure strikes me as sex based and fundamental conduct, which are the general criteria for intermediate.</p>
<p>As to whether it is a jury or bench trial, I don&#8217;t know.  I checked PACER and Walker&#8217;s pre-trial scheduling order discusses procedures for both jury and bench trials.  I emailed Ted Olson to ask him the status; will post the answer either here, or on a newer thread if this one is closed, when I find out.</p>
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		<title>By: Parenthetical</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/10/14/more-ndca-goodness-judge-walker-denies-prop-8-proponents-motion/#comment-194702</link>
		<dc:creator>Parenthetical</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/?p=5084#comment-194702</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;He wants to make a killer record on this before it hits the appellate courts ...&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Most definitely. 

The quick ruling (he did mull it over for an hour before issuing an opinion) shouldn&#039;t have come as a surprise to the Prop 8 proponents. Walker has telegraphed from the very outset that there&#039;s a serious inquiry to be made regarding the level of scrutiny. That necessarily requires some facts. There&#039;s no agreement on those facts (Prop 8 is dragging its feet in a way that Walker abhors), so Walker insists on a trial. 

I was a little surprised that Walker called out Cooper on whether or not he&#039;s figured out a rational basis for this law. I&#039;d guess that Walker will ultimately rule that Romer/Lawrence-like &quot;more searching form&quot; of rational basis applies. But who knows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>He wants to make a killer record on this before it hits the appellate courts &#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Most definitely. </p>
<p>The quick ruling (he did mull it over for an hour before issuing an opinion) shouldn&#8217;t have come as a surprise to the Prop 8 proponents. Walker has telegraphed from the very outset that there&#8217;s a serious inquiry to be made regarding the level of scrutiny. That necessarily requires some facts. There&#8217;s no agreement on those facts (Prop 8 is dragging its feet in a way that Walker abhors), so Walker insists on a trial. </p>
<p>I was a little surprised that Walker called out Cooper on whether or not he&#8217;s figured out a rational basis for this law. I&#8217;d guess that Walker will ultimately rule that Romer/Lawrence-like &#8220;more searching form&#8221; of rational basis applies. But who knows.</p>
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		<title>By: Parenthetical</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/10/14/more-ndca-goodness-judge-walker-denies-prop-8-proponents-motion/#comment-194699</link>
		<dc:creator>Parenthetical</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Certainly, civil jury trials happen all the time in District Court. Based on the discussion at the case-management conferences (and related proceedings), this will be a bench trial. 

Given that the relief sought is declaratory+injunctive, I think use of a jury is at the judge&#039;s discretion. But, I don&#039;t profess to be well versed on the VII Amendment and how the courts interpret it today. Federal procedure addresses cases where the VII right exists and where it doesn&#039;t (traditionally suits in equity wouldn&#039;t have the &lt;em&gt;right&lt;/em&gt;, but that&#039;s a quasi moribund distinction now). 

Whether or not the right extends to this case, I suspect that the desire to hold an expeditious trial may have induced everyone to dispense with the jury. Parties are, of course, free to waive (not make a timely demand) jury trials. 

That&#039;s kind of a shame. I would love to have been called for that jury service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly, civil jury trials happen all the time in District Court. Based on the discussion at the case-management conferences (and related proceedings), this will be a bench trial. </p>
<p>Given that the relief sought is declaratory+injunctive, I think use of a jury is at the judge&#8217;s discretion. But, I don&#8217;t profess to be well versed on the VII Amendment and how the courts interpret it today. Federal procedure addresses cases where the VII right exists and where it doesn&#8217;t (traditionally suits in equity wouldn&#8217;t have the <em>right</em>, but that&#8217;s a quasi moribund distinction now). </p>
<p>Whether or not the right extends to this case, I suspect that the desire to hold an expeditious trial may have induced everyone to dispense with the jury. Parties are, of course, free to waive (not make a timely demand) jury trials. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s kind of a shame. I would love to have been called for that jury service.</p>
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		<title>By: Brisingamen2</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/10/14/more-ndca-goodness-judge-walker-denies-prop-8-proponents-motion/#comment-194684</link>
		<dc:creator>Brisingamen2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/?p=5084#comment-194684</guid>
		<description>Hmm -- the cases our Office of Investigations brings to District Court (Medicare fraud) are heard by a Judge with no jury. So what governs whether a case gets a jury or not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm &#8212; the cases our Office of Investigations brings to District Court (Medicare fraud) are heard by a Judge with no jury. So what governs whether a case gets a jury or not?</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/10/14/more-ndca-goodness-judge-walker-denies-prop-8-proponents-motion/#comment-194676</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/?p=5084#comment-194676</guid>
		<description>I am not sure whether this is set for jury or not, but they most certainly do have jury trials in District Court; in fact, that is the place designed for just that.  Have them there every day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure whether this is set for jury or not, but they most certainly do have jury trials in District Court; in fact, that is the place designed for just that.  Have them there every day.</p>
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		<title>By: Brisingamen2</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/10/14/more-ndca-goodness-judge-walker-denies-prop-8-proponents-motion/#comment-194663</link>
		<dc:creator>Brisingamen2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/?p=5084#comment-194663</guid>
		<description>Cases heard in Federal District Courts are not &quot;jury&quot; trials. Judge Walker will be the official rendering the decision. 

No jury, no need for change of venue. If the case goes against the proponents of Prop 8, they will have the right to appeal it.

My view is that Judge Walker is giving the proponents of Prop 8 sufficient rope with which to hang themselves...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cases heard in Federal District Courts are not &#8220;jury&#8221; trials. Judge Walker will be the official rendering the decision. </p>
<p>No jury, no need for change of venue. If the case goes against the proponents of Prop 8, they will have the right to appeal it.</p>
<p>My view is that Judge Walker is giving the proponents of Prop 8 sufficient rope with which to hang themselves&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: phred</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/10/14/more-ndca-goodness-judge-walker-denies-prop-8-proponents-motion/#comment-194617</link>
		<dc:creator>phred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/?p=5084#comment-194617</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the post bmaz...

Just a quick drive-by to say that:
1)  I love Judge Walker
2)  Someone should create a set of baseball cards for Judges -- the polar opposite of the set produced for the torture team.  These would be for the judges who are having none of the b.s. arguments being made by the executive branch, and anti-civil-libertarians like the Prop 8 folks, and as a bonus they should include one for the judge that fined Taitz ; )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post bmaz&#8230;</p>
<p>Just a quick drive-by to say that:<br />
1)  I love Judge Walker<br />
2)  Someone should create a set of baseball cards for Judges &#8212; the polar opposite of the set produced for the torture team.  These would be for the judges who are having none of the b.s. arguments being made by the executive branch, and anti-civil-libertarians like the Prop 8 folks, and as a bonus they should include one for the judge that fined Taitz ; )</p>
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