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	<title>Comments on: George Steph Wrings His Hands</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/</link>
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		<title>By: cregan</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192628</link>
		<dc:creator>cregan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 15:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192628</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am just surprised at how intelligent people can peddle this.  For anyone who actually has an open mind,  there have been many, many Republican proposals for health care reform&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Removing State barriers and letting people buy insurance nationwide&lt;br /&gt;
Tort Reform&lt;br /&gt;
Subsides to low income citizens to buy insurance&lt;br /&gt;
Letting individual people band together to form a group&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And many others.  You might not think they are good ideas, but that doesn’t make them “no plan.”  By that same token, I could say the Democratic ideas are not good and propose the fantasy that they have no plan.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So Grayson is totally wrong.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am just surprised at how intelligent people can peddle this.  For anyone who actually has an open mind,  there have been many, many Republican proposals for health care reform</p>
<p>Removing State barriers and letting people buy insurance nationwide<br />
Tort Reform<br />
Subsides to low income citizens to buy insurance<br />
Letting individual people band together to form a group</p>
<p>And many others.  You might not think they are good ideas, but that doesn’t make them “no plan.”  By that same token, I could say the Democratic ideas are not good and propose the fantasy that they have no plan.</p>
<p>So Grayson is totally wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192598</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 13:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192598</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am going to be slammed for stating this. Gastro has a point. He’s pointing to the concern, “Did we have to reflect Republican behavior?” As though the behavior was compromising values of decorum for political “stage affects”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is a point to his perspective and it should not be thrown out as a “troll view”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;By the same token, there is a frustration level with the fact that Republicans have made it clear they do not care about health care, their real fight here is to make Obama fail on health care for the sake of politics. Their fight is not for citizens. It’s about Obama’s Waterloo and the Republican party has clearly stated that. Cleary. “Making it Obama’s waterloo,” were their words, not mine.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When Democratic parties “tried” honest efforts to seek policy which would bring both sides together, one side just did not want to participate in constructive dialogue unless it protected the status quo of the health industry.(And that includes conservative Dems too unfortunately.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Grayson’s in your face tact/perspective is one of, “We tried to get your party to participate in the process to include your ‘values’ such as ‘life based’ concerns and fiscal responsibility on policy. But all that resulted was, “You lie!” a blank piece of paper, and lots of hate building at Town Hall meetings. He is peeling the layers of the “values hypocrisy onion” back to show that 70% of the country is not in agreement with such movement on such an important issue.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Do I like how he did it? No. In an ideal world I would hope decorum would work to create thoughtful, positive sum policy. A “fair play” approach.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is there a place for the approach Grayson took?  After the Republican response and the media response, I have to state, Grayson’s reality check pill has a roll to play. He is reflecting righteous anger for those disenfranchised by the healthcare industry. My family is one of those carrying righteous anger for the abuses of the industry due to denial of coverage after approval of coverage and then being left with a $25,000 bill. No one has stood up for my healthcare experience and my righteous anger due to it until Rockefeller and Grayson.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thankfully, we have Jay Rockefeller continuing to use decorum and presenting thoughtful policy to balance out Grayson’s manner. And both approaches are finally getting the voice of concerns regarding healthcare heard within the MSM.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So Gastro, I agree with your point. It is frustrating to see “more politicing.” Grayson’s action(s) are forcing the hands of the Republicans to come to the table with some thoughtful legislation which is positive sum.  If they cannot deliver, then the GOP rage at Grayson ends up hollow and false. Then Grayson ends up correct.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The GOP has stirred up way too much false and ugly divisiveness. Grayson is simply stating, “I have had it. Walk your talk buckos.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Therefore, I think Grayson was closer to righteous anger and admonishment for accountability, then “two wrongs do not make a right.” But it is very close to the line in how he approached it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Salted words just do not work on the GOP right now. I hate the fact that such an important issue in our country has been over shadowed by ugliness. I think that is part of Grayson’s point. He’s mirroring political behavior but using corrective language, not hate language. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Grayson has opened a door in an aggressive yet astute move. Are Republicans going to ask him to apologize for the dead who die of complications which basic healthcare could have prevented? That would be the dumbest demand by the GOP on Grayson. He would become a hero for all those families who are losing every day by standing with those families and stating, “I will not apologize for their pain.” &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now, had the GOP responded with:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“You know, we were wrong to issue a blank piece of paper as policy. We were wrong to shout out, “You lie!” We were wrong to stir up lies about policy on healthcare such as death panels and create hate at town hall meetings. Forgive us citizens, here’s an honest effort at a win-win policy, ” and then hand Grayson some well written policy,”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;then, I think Grayson should apologize.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am going to be slammed for stating this. Gastro has a point. He’s pointing to the concern, “Did we have to reflect Republican behavior?” As though the behavior was compromising values of decorum for political “stage affects”.</p>
<p>There is a point to his perspective and it should not be thrown out as a “troll view”.</p>
<p>By the same token, there is a frustration level with the fact that Republicans have made it clear they do not care about health care, their real fight here is to make Obama fail on health care for the sake of politics. Their fight is not for citizens. It’s about Obama’s Waterloo and the Republican party has clearly stated that. Cleary. “Making it Obama’s waterloo,” were their words, not mine.</p>
<p>When Democratic parties “tried” honest efforts to seek policy which would bring both sides together, one side just did not want to participate in constructive dialogue unless it protected the status quo of the health industry.(And that includes conservative Dems too unfortunately.)</p>
<p>Grayson’s in your face tact/perspective is one of, “We tried to get your party to participate in the process to include your ‘values’ such as ‘life based’ concerns and fiscal responsibility on policy. But all that resulted was, “You lie!” a blank piece of paper, and lots of hate building at Town Hall meetings. He is peeling the layers of the “values hypocrisy onion” back to show that 70% of the country is not in agreement with such movement on such an important issue.</p>
<p>Do I like how he did it? No. In an ideal world I would hope decorum would work to create thoughtful, positive sum policy. A “fair play” approach.</p>
<p>Is there a place for the approach Grayson took?  After the Republican response and the media response, I have to state, Grayson’s reality check pill has a roll to play. He is reflecting righteous anger for those disenfranchised by the healthcare industry. My family is one of those carrying righteous anger for the abuses of the industry due to denial of coverage after approval of coverage and then being left with a $25,000 bill. No one has stood up for my healthcare experience and my righteous anger due to it until Rockefeller and Grayson.</p>
<p>Thankfully, we have Jay Rockefeller continuing to use decorum and presenting thoughtful policy to balance out Grayson’s manner. And both approaches are finally getting the voice of concerns regarding healthcare heard within the MSM.</p>
<p>So Gastro, I agree with your point. It is frustrating to see “more politicing.” Grayson’s action(s) are forcing the hands of the Republicans to come to the table with some thoughtful legislation which is positive sum.  If they cannot deliver, then the GOP rage at Grayson ends up hollow and false. Then Grayson ends up correct.</p>
<p>The GOP has stirred up way too much false and ugly divisiveness. Grayson is simply stating, “I have had it. Walk your talk buckos.”</p>
<p>Therefore, I think Grayson was closer to righteous anger and admonishment for accountability, then “two wrongs do not make a right.” But it is very close to the line in how he approached it.</p>
<p>Salted words just do not work on the GOP right now. I hate the fact that such an important issue in our country has been over shadowed by ugliness. I think that is part of Grayson’s point. He’s mirroring political behavior but using corrective language, not hate language. </p>
<p>Grayson has opened a door in an aggressive yet astute move. Are Republicans going to ask him to apologize for the dead who die of complications which basic healthcare could have prevented? That would be the dumbest demand by the GOP on Grayson. He would become a hero for all those families who are losing every day by standing with those families and stating, “I will not apologize for their pain.” </p>
<p>Now, had the GOP responded with:</p>
<p>“You know, we were wrong to issue a blank piece of paper as policy. We were wrong to shout out, “You lie!” We were wrong to stir up lies about policy on healthcare such as death panels and create hate at town hall meetings. Forgive us citizens, here’s an honest effort at a win-win policy, ” and then hand Grayson some well written policy,”</p>
<p>then, I think Grayson should apologize.</p>
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		<title>By: Legion303</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192595</link>
		<dc:creator>Legion303</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 11:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192595</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“No, he said Republicans not Republican politicians. Please tell the truth.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He did in fact say “republicans.” Right after specifically mentioning the republican politicians on the other side of the aisle and their blank sheet health care plan. Then going on to talk about the bills from the democratic party. I learned the concept of context from Sesame Street when I was three.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“No, he said Republicans not Republican politicians. Please tell the truth.”</p>
<p>He did in fact say “republicans.” Right after specifically mentioning the republican politicians on the other side of the aisle and their blank sheet health care plan. Then going on to talk about the bills from the democratic party. I learned the concept of context from Sesame Street when I was three.</p>
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		<title>By: Legion303</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192594</link>
		<dc:creator>Legion303</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 11:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192594</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“Will someone tell me why my ‘comment is awaiting moderator approval’? Because I happen to have a different political point of view? Is that the way this works here? You are censored if you aren’t just parroting the prevailing opinion here?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sure looks like you were censored. Alert the media.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Will someone tell me why my ‘comment is awaiting moderator approval’? Because I happen to have a different political point of view? Is that the way this works here? You are censored if you aren’t just parroting the prevailing opinion here?”</p>
<p>Sure looks like you were censored. Alert the media.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Hmmm</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192579</link>
		<dc:creator>Hmmm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 04:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192579</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You’re not &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; suggesting the amount of vitriol spewed by Democratic-Party-leaning folks has come anywhere &lt;em&gt;remotely&lt;/em&gt; near the amount spewed by the other end of the spectrum, are you?  Because that would be downright clinical.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You’re not <em>really</em> suggesting the amount of vitriol spewed by Democratic-Party-leaning folks has come anywhere <em>remotely</em> near the amount spewed by the other end of the spectrum, are you?  Because that would be downright clinical.</p>
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		<title>By: fatster</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192571</link>
		<dc:creator>fatster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 04:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192571</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah!  You win.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah!  You win.</p>
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		<title>By: marc</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192568</link>
		<dc:creator>marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 04:15:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192568</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The British documentary program Panorama did a show last year on $23 billion in Iraqi oil funds that went missing after being spent by Paul Bremer’s CPA on various boondoggles and corrupt contractors.  Alan Grayson represents a lot of whistle blowers so he was interviewed for the show. He was very funny and got at least some information around the complete gag order imposed by the government on such cases by playing a game of hot or cold to the interviewer’s questioning. His personal wealth is in the billions so he is not in it for the money.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The British documentary program Panorama did a show last year on $23 billion in Iraqi oil funds that went missing after being spent by Paul Bremer’s CPA on various boondoggles and corrupt contractors.  Alan Grayson represents a lot of whistle blowers so he was interviewed for the show. He was very funny and got at least some information around the complete gag order imposed by the government on such cases by playing a game of hot or cold to the interviewer’s questioning. His personal wealth is in the billions so he is not in it for the money.</p>
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		<title>By: orionATL</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192563</link>
		<dc:creator>orionATL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 03:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192563</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;this conduct among mainstream media “stars” only happens when there is BIG pressure from the bosses.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;let’s see now,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;abc,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;disney,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;white house,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;rahm emmanuel,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;disney,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;abc,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;stephanie.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;what is there to be surprised about?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this conduct among mainstream media “stars” only happens when there is BIG pressure from the bosses.</p>
<p>let’s see now,</p>
<p>abc,</p>
<p>disney,</p>
<p>white house,</p>
<p>rahm emmanuel,</p>
<p>disney,</p>
<p>abc,</p>
<p>stephanie.</p>
<p>what is there to be surprised about?</p>
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		<title>By: PJEvans</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192562</link>
		<dc:creator>PJEvans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 03:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192562</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;When you produce a reasoned argument, we’ll respond to it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you produce a reasoned argument, we’ll respond to it.</p>
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		<title>By: PJEvans</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192561</link>
		<dc:creator>PJEvans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 03:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/30/george-steph-wrings-his-hands/#comment-192561</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It wasn’t their country then, either. Most of them would have been hired hands or small farmers, not the plantation owner they like to dream about being.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It wasn’t their country then, either. Most of them would have been hired hands or small farmers, not the plantation owner they like to dream about being.</p>
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