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	<title>Comments on: Bill Clinton on Student Loans and Health Care</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/</link>
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		<title>By: Nell</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-191162</link>
		<dc:creator>Nell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for the history, Sara.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nasty piece of work, Bill Clinton.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the history, Sara.</p>
<p>Nasty piece of work, Bill Clinton.</p>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-191143</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;A very interesting argument. Thanks.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in AZ&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very interesting argument. Thanks.</p>
<p>Bob in AZ</p>
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		<title>By: cwolf</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-191125</link>
		<dc:creator>cwolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Is it possible that there is an unseen Obama Plan here and that his recent speeches &amp; TV appearances are merely Half-Time entertainment in the long overdue war on the health insurance crime syndicate. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A climactic senate vote Next August or so would really put blueblood &amp; sellout congress slime on the spot with the voters. As the BS capitalist arguments run out of steam a campaign of carpet bombing the country with truth &amp; reality might succeed &amp; lead to a 4th quarter progressive rout,,, maybe even single payer. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama keeps saying we’re 80% there. Shit - we’ve been 80% there since Dickens wrote Bleak House.&lt;br /&gt;
5% still have all the ca$h.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it possible that there is an unseen Obama Plan here and that his recent speeches &amp; TV appearances are merely Half-Time entertainment in the long overdue war on the health insurance crime syndicate. </p>
<p>A climactic senate vote Next August or so would really put blueblood &amp; sellout congress slime on the spot with the voters. As the BS capitalist arguments run out of steam a campaign of carpet bombing the country with truth &amp; reality might succeed &amp; lead to a 4th quarter progressive rout,,, maybe even single payer. </p>
<p>Obama keeps saying we’re 80% there. Shit &#8211; we’ve been 80% there since Dickens wrote Bleak House.<br />
5% still have all the ca$h.</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-191051</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 02:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-191051</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Steve Clemons take of the CGI&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2009/09/bill_clintons_g/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.thewashingtonnote.c.....lintons_g/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve Clemons take of the CGI<br /><a href="http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2009/09/bill_clintons_g/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thewashingtonnote.c&#8230;..lintons_g/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gunner</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-191034</link>
		<dc:creator>Gunner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wow how cool Marcy,and I agree great pic&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow how cool Marcy,and I agree great pic</p>
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		<title>By: masslib</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-191033</link>
		<dc:creator>masslib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, yes, the entire premise of the health reform is completely at odds with the principle underlying student loan reform.  in other words, while we’ve decided direct funding is the right way to go(Clinton implemented direct funding in the late ’90’s, Bush wiped it out), then clearly that is also the answer on health care, if one is consistent with principle.  But with or without a PO, the plan crafted by Congress subsidizes private insurers for something the government can do better and cheaper.  However, I believe BC is making a political argument.  The premise is that at this point Dems have to deliver something or they will be viewed by voters as unable to govern, rightly so.  I don’t think he’s saying this is great reform.  i think he’s saying something needs to pass for political reasons alone.  He was an early, outspoken advocate for the PO, and I think he was giving Obama a hint.  Obama needed to talk early, often and STRONGLY for a large public insurance program for all takers to achieve it.  We know Congress has not crafted anything remotely like that.  From what nyceve said, BC said the PO should be open to everyone, and the gold standard, which is very smart because the PO crafted thus far in Congress is neither and thus will not reach it’s potential, drive people out of the private market, and force insurers to sell a worthy product.  So, I don’t think he’s saying, yeah, this is great, let’s leave it up to the private sector, meanwhile let’s not subsidize the private sector on student loans.  i think he’s making an honest assessment of where we are, why the Dems need to pass something, and laying the ground work for what will have to happen next, as this plan doesn’t go nearly far enough.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, yes, the entire premise of the health reform is completely at odds with the principle underlying student loan reform.  in other words, while we’ve decided direct funding is the right way to go(Clinton implemented direct funding in the late ’90’s, Bush wiped it out), then clearly that is also the answer on health care, if one is consistent with principle.  But with or without a PO, the plan crafted by Congress subsidizes private insurers for something the government can do better and cheaper.  However, I believe BC is making a political argument.  The premise is that at this point Dems have to deliver something or they will be viewed by voters as unable to govern, rightly so.  I don’t think he’s saying this is great reform.  i think he’s saying something needs to pass for political reasons alone.  He was an early, outspoken advocate for the PO, and I think he was giving Obama a hint.  Obama needed to talk early, often and STRONGLY for a large public insurance program for all takers to achieve it.  We know Congress has not crafted anything remotely like that.  From what nyceve said, BC said the PO should be open to everyone, and the gold standard, which is very smart because the PO crafted thus far in Congress is neither and thus will not reach it’s potential, drive people out of the private market, and force insurers to sell a worthy product.  So, I don’t think he’s saying, yeah, this is great, let’s leave it up to the private sector, meanwhile let’s not subsidize the private sector on student loans.  i think he’s making an honest assessment of where we are, why the Dems need to pass something, and laying the ground work for what will have to happen next, as this plan doesn’t go nearly far enough.</p>
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		<title>By: cregan</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-191024</link>
		<dc:creator>cregan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-191024</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Here is one area where I agree with Bill Clinton.  If the government is handing out money, loans, etc.,  it should be handed out directly by the government.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To me, there really ought to be a real connect between the two camps.  Private sector and public well being.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The public well being needs money to fund it.  The more, the better.  The private sector needs profits to survive and advance,  the more the better.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In our town, highly liberal,  here is how it goes:  put up as many road blocks to business as you can, restrict them in as many ways as you can.  Then,  oh, we don’t have the revenue to do this project or that.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It never dawned on them that the more money coming into City businesses, the more taxes they get and the more projects they can undertake.  They are so busy worrying about punishing evil profit takers, they cut off their own nose.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The two actually work together.  Help local businesses  (for local government) be as successful as possible, and rake in the taxes, then use it to help others.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Government actually has no other source of funds other than the success of businesses.  Americorp doesn’t pay any taxes.  Neither does Move On.  YOu can tax goverment employee salaries, but that is only returning money you just had.  Other’s salaries are only there to tax because some business was doing well enough to hire them.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is one area where I agree with Bill Clinton.  If the government is handing out money, loans, etc.,  it should be handed out directly by the government.</p>
<p>To me, there really ought to be a real connect between the two camps.  Private sector and public well being.</p>
<p>The public well being needs money to fund it.  The more, the better.  The private sector needs profits to survive and advance,  the more the better.</p>
<p>In our town, highly liberal,  here is how it goes:  put up as many road blocks to business as you can, restrict them in as many ways as you can.  Then,  oh, we don’t have the revenue to do this project or that.  </p>
<p>It never dawned on them that the more money coming into City businesses, the more taxes they get and the more projects they can undertake.  They are so busy worrying about punishing evil profit takers, they cut off their own nose.</p>
<p>The two actually work together.  Help local businesses  (for local government) be as successful as possible, and rake in the taxes, then use it to help others.</p>
<p>Government actually has no other source of funds other than the success of businesses.  Americorp doesn’t pay any taxes.  Neither does Move On.  YOu can tax goverment employee salaries, but that is only returning money you just had.  Other’s salaries are only there to tax because some business was doing well enough to hire them.</p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-191004</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-191004</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;One of the small details in the great student loan flapdoodle at the beginning of Clinton’s administration, was that getting access to the direct student loan program required the educational instution to sign up and sponsor it.  Many Colleges and Universities found it far more to their interests to follow the guidance they received from private lenders, and not sign on to administer the program on their campuses.  In effect, this made many schools captive to the programs of the private lenders.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One must never forget the rot that Elliot Spitzer uncovered in New York State at the State University System, the pay-off’s to top administrators and the Financial Aid Administrators.  What Spitzer found was actually nation wide — but they settled with New York so fast it made your head spin, and no one moved the investigation to a higher level.  Many of the private lenders put their top people on boards of trustees, available to fund this and that special project as such wants and needs became evident from Trustee meetings.  Many of the lenders also offered investment services as a free-bee to educational instututions.  Twas not at all unusual for College VP’s and Presidents, and Financial Aid officers to receive a leased BMW or Lexis without charges from that very helpful lender who of course leased a whole fleet of them.  Conferences in the Bahamas in January were pretty common for College Financial Aid officers.  All to the end of getting exclusive deals for providing Student Loans, and all because Clinton allowed them to make the direct loan program voluntary on the part of institutions.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To make matters worse, all the fancy lobbies in DC that are paid for by American Colleges and Universities were persuaded to support this small detail in the direct student loan program — the institution had to volunteer to offer the program.  (Students at many institutions could not choose to take a direct student loan.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Back in 1993-94 when this was an issue, my Senator, Paul Wellstone went around the country talking to activist student groups about taking a stand on the matter — doing some intense student lobbying work state by state.  He needed about ten additional votes to create the level playing field, so that all institutions had to offer the Direct Student Loan program.  Clinton cut him off at the knees.  It was a very nasty story.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the small details in the great student loan flapdoodle at the beginning of Clinton’s administration, was that getting access to the direct student loan program required the educational instution to sign up and sponsor it.  Many Colleges and Universities found it far more to their interests to follow the guidance they received from private lenders, and not sign on to administer the program on their campuses.  In effect, this made many schools captive to the programs of the private lenders.  </p>
<p>One must never forget the rot that Elliot Spitzer uncovered in New York State at the State University System, the pay-off’s to top administrators and the Financial Aid Administrators.  What Spitzer found was actually nation wide — but they settled with New York so fast it made your head spin, and no one moved the investigation to a higher level.  Many of the private lenders put their top people on boards of trustees, available to fund this and that special project as such wants and needs became evident from Trustee meetings.  Many of the lenders also offered investment services as a free-bee to educational instututions.  Twas not at all unusual for College VP’s and Presidents, and Financial Aid officers to receive a leased BMW or Lexis without charges from that very helpful lender who of course leased a whole fleet of them.  Conferences in the Bahamas in January were pretty common for College Financial Aid officers.  All to the end of getting exclusive deals for providing Student Loans, and all because Clinton allowed them to make the direct loan program voluntary on the part of institutions.  </p>
<p>To make matters worse, all the fancy lobbies in DC that are paid for by American Colleges and Universities were persuaded to support this small detail in the direct student loan program — the institution had to volunteer to offer the program.  (Students at many institutions could not choose to take a direct student loan.)</p>
<p>Back in 1993-94 when this was an issue, my Senator, Paul Wellstone went around the country talking to activist student groups about taking a stand on the matter — doing some intense student lobbying work state by state.  He needed about ten additional votes to create the level playing field, so that all institutions had to offer the Direct Student Loan program.  Clinton cut him off at the knees.  It was a very nasty story.</p>
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		<title>By: solerso</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-190996</link>
		<dc:creator>solerso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;A reinvigorated union movement is so important to any broad progressive reform movement. When the unions leadership and membership were complacent for 30 years we get what we have now;unions busted almost out of existence and a democratic party that thinks the unions and they’re 10 million members are a perk and a fundraising gift to lure conservative-corporate -blue dog democrats. I hope they (AFL CIO, AFCME, SEIU )are waking up. they seem to be, I have less hope for the teamsters.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A reinvigorated union movement is so important to any broad progressive reform movement. When the unions leadership and membership were complacent for 30 years we get what we have now;unions busted almost out of existence and a democratic party that thinks the unions and they’re 10 million members are a perk and a fundraising gift to lure conservative-corporate -blue dog democrats. I hope they (AFL CIO, AFCME, SEIU )are waking up. they seem to be, I have less hope for the teamsters.</p>
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		<title>By: KarenM</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-190985</link>
		<dc:creator>KarenM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/22/bill-clinton-on-student-loans-and-health-care/#comment-190985</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Interesting comparisons. Obviously, this topic is so complex that none of us can really understand all of the forces at work now… or in the future. I am hopeful that the future will see some positive countervailing forces that we cannot yet predict…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Michael Pollan, for example, made an interesting suggestion in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/opinion/10pollan.html?scp=2&amp;sq=michael%20pollan&amp;st=cse&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this essay&lt;/a&gt; in the NYTimes from September 9th. He writes that BigInsurance will eventually be on the side of the sustainable agriculture people… i.e., against BigFood once they have to start covering everyone (assuming no more pre-existing conditions, rescissions, etc.) and the costs/benefits of our current ways of eating (in general) can be measured. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;An excerpt:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
 As for the insurers, you would think preventing chronic diseases would be good business, but, at least under the current rules, it’s much better business simply to keep patients at risk for chronic disease out of your pool of customers, whether through lifetime caps on coverage or rules against pre-existing conditions or by figuring out ways to toss patients overboard when they become ill.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But these rules may well be about to change — and, when it comes to reforming the American diet and food system, that step alone could be a game changer. Even under the weaker versions of health care reform now on offer, health insurers would be required to take everyone at the same rates, provide a standard level of coverage and keep people on their rolls regardless of their health. Terms like “pre-existing conditions” and “underwriting” would vanish from the health insurance rulebook — and, when they do, the relationship between the health insurance industry and the food industry will undergo a sea change. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The moment these new rules take effect, health insurance companies will promptly discover they have a powerful interest in reducing rates of obesity and chronic diseases linked to diet. A patient with Type 2 diabetes incurs additional health care costs of more than $6,600 a year; over a lifetime, that can come to more than $400,000. Insurers will quickly figure out that every case of Type 2 diabetes they can prevent adds $400,000 to their bottom line. Suddenly, every can of soda or Happy Meal or chicken nugget on a school lunch menu will look like a threat to future profits.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting comparisons. Obviously, this topic is so complex that none of us can really understand all of the forces at work now… or in the future. I am hopeful that the future will see some positive countervailing forces that we cannot yet predict…</p>
<p>Michael Pollan, for example, made an interesting suggestion in <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/opinion/10pollan.html?scp=2&amp;sq=michael%20pollan&amp;st=cse" rel="nofollow">this essay</a> in the NYTimes from September 9th. He writes that BigInsurance will eventually be on the side of the sustainable agriculture people… i.e., against BigFood once they have to start covering everyone (assuming no more pre-existing conditions, rescissions, etc.) and the costs/benefits of our current ways of eating (in general) can be measured. </p>
<p>An excerpt:</p>
<blockquote><p>
 As for the insurers, you would think preventing chronic diseases would be good business, but, at least under the current rules, it’s much better business simply to keep patients at risk for chronic disease out of your pool of customers, whether through lifetime caps on coverage or rules against pre-existing conditions or by figuring out ways to toss patients overboard when they become ill.</p>
<p>But these rules may well be about to change — and, when it comes to reforming the American diet and food system, that step alone could be a game changer. Even under the weaker versions of health care reform now on offer, health insurers would be required to take everyone at the same rates, provide a standard level of coverage and keep people on their rolls regardless of their health. Terms like “pre-existing conditions” and “underwriting” would vanish from the health insurance rulebook — and, when they do, the relationship between the health insurance industry and the food industry will undergo a sea change. </p>
<p>The moment these new rules take effect, health insurance companies will promptly discover they have a powerful interest in reducing rates of obesity and chronic diseases linked to diet. A patient with Type 2 diabetes incurs additional health care costs of more than $6,600 a year; over a lifetime, that can come to more than $400,000. Insurers will quickly figure out that every case of Type 2 diabetes they can prevent adds $400,000 to their bottom line. Suddenly, every can of soda or Happy Meal or chicken nugget on a school lunch menu will look like a threat to future profits.</p>
</blockquote>
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