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	<title>Comments on: Poppy Bush Not Joining Other DCIs Opposing Investigation of W Bush&#8217;s Torture</title>
	<atom:link href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/</link>
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		<title>By: valletta</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190664</link>
		<dc:creator>valletta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190664</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I was just going to mention this!&lt;br /&gt;
Great book, the Poppy thread and connections to this country’s pivotal events is just spooky.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just going to mention this!<br />
Great book, the Poppy thread and connections to this country’s pivotal events is just spooky.</p>
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		<title>By: bobh</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190655</link>
		<dc:creator>bobh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Given that Holder’s target list is just a handful of people, this is really over the top, and is clearly politically motivated.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that Holder’s target list is just a handful of people, this is really over the top, and is clearly politically motivated.</p>
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		<title>By: doctordawg</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190654</link>
		<dc:creator>doctordawg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190654</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Poppy couldn’t sign on for conflict of interest reasons.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Don’t forget the CIA is not like you and me.  Some of them sign on to take a bullet for their country knowing their country will deny they even existed.  No hero’s funeral for them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They need their bosses to be held accountable by the DOJ because rank and file can’t say no to anything they are asked to do.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poppy couldn’t sign on for conflict of interest reasons.</p>
<p>Don’t forget the CIA is not like you and me.  Some of them sign on to take a bullet for their country knowing their country will deny they even existed.  No hero’s funeral for them.</p>
<p>They need their bosses to be held accountable by the DOJ because rank and file can’t say no to anything they are asked to do.</p>
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		<title>By: NRI1969</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190653</link>
		<dc:creator>NRI1969</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190653</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Let’s be clear: what these seven former CIA directors are asking the president to do is known as &lt;em&gt;obstruction of justice&lt;/em&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let’s be clear: what these seven former CIA directors are asking the president to do is known as <em>obstruction of justice</em>.</p>
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		<title>By: NoOneYouKnow</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190651</link>
		<dc:creator>NoOneYouKnow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 05:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190651</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Have a look at a more detailed recounting of Poppy’s actions during and after Iran/Contra: Google “Chip Tatum.” Very, very juicy stuff. I wonder if the rest of these DCIs are opposing the investigation on the premise that investigating any sort of CIA criminality is potentially a very bad thing for them. After all, ignoring domestic and foreign law and treaties is their bread and butter.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have a look at a more detailed recounting of Poppy’s actions during and after Iran/Contra: Google “Chip Tatum.” Very, very juicy stuff. I wonder if the rest of these DCIs are opposing the investigation on the premise that investigating any sort of CIA criminality is potentially a very bad thing for them. After all, ignoring domestic and foreign law and treaties is their bread and butter.</p>
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		<title>By: Gitcheegumee</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190648</link>
		<dc:creator>Gitcheegumee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 04:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190648</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Copper Green is reported by American investigative journalist Seymour Hersh to be one of several code names for a U.S. black ops program, according to an article in the May 24, 2004 issue of The New Yorker.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; &lt;strong&gt;According to Hersh, the task force was formed with the direct approval of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld during October,2001 U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, and run by Deputy Undersecretary Stephen Cambone. Hersh claims the special access program members were told “Grab whom you must. Do what you want”.&lt;/strong&gt; The program allegedly designed physical coercion and sexual humiliation techniques for use against Muslim Arab men specifically, to retrieve information from suspects, and to blackmail them into becoming informants.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hersh claims to have spoken to &lt;strong&gt;a senior CIA official who said the program was designed by Rumsfeld to wrest control of information from the CIA, and place it in the hands of the Pentagon. According to Hersh’s sources, the program was so successful in Afghanistan, that Cambone decided to introduce the SAP program to operations during 2003 invasion of Iraq, &lt;/strong&gt;eventually leading to the use of common soldiers instead of using special ops forces exclusively. In Hersh’s view, &lt;strong&gt;the program was used on detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison,&lt;/strong&gt; leading directly to the prisoner abuse by US soldiers there.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Department of Defense spokesperson Lawrence DiRita immediately issued a statement about the accusations, referring to them as “outlandish, conspiratorial, and filled with error and anonymous conjecture”. Press accounts have generally characterized DiRita’s statement as a “denial”, although &lt;strong&gt;it is clearly not a blanket denial of Hersh’s allegations or even a denial that they are substantially correct&lt;/strong&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Wikipedia&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Copper Green is reported by American investigative journalist Seymour Hersh to be one of several code names for a U.S. black ops program, according to an article in the May 24, 2004 issue of The New Yorker.</p>
<p> <strong>According to Hersh, the task force was formed with the direct approval of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld during October,2001 U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, and run by Deputy Undersecretary Stephen Cambone. Hersh claims the special access program members were told “Grab whom you must. Do what you want”.</strong> The program allegedly designed physical coercion and sexual humiliation techniques for use against Muslim Arab men specifically, to retrieve information from suspects, and to blackmail them into becoming informants.</p>
<p>Hersh claims to have spoken to <strong>a senior CIA official who said the program was designed by Rumsfeld to wrest control of information from the CIA, and place it in the hands of the Pentagon. According to Hersh’s sources, the program was so successful in Afghanistan, that Cambone decided to introduce the SAP program to operations during 2003 invasion of Iraq, </strong>eventually leading to the use of common soldiers instead of using special ops forces exclusively. In Hersh’s view, <strong>the program was used on detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison,</strong> leading directly to the prisoner abuse by US soldiers there.</p>
<p>Department of Defense spokesperson Lawrence DiRita immediately issued a statement about the accusations, referring to them as “outlandish, conspiratorial, and filled with error and anonymous conjecture”. Press accounts have generally characterized DiRita’s statement as a “denial”, although <strong>it is clearly not a blanket denial of Hersh’s allegations or even a denial that they are substantially correct</strong>.</p>
<p>Wikipedia</p>
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		<title>By: timbo</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190646</link>
		<dc:creator>timbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 03:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190646</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Feel troubled at all that no state’s bar association has actually disbarred any of the folks who so misinterpreted the law that the law became meaningless?  Rhetorical question.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Feel troubled at all that no state’s bar association has actually disbarred any of the folks who so misinterpreted the law that the law became meaningless?  Rhetorical question.</p>
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		<title>By: timbo</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190645</link>
		<dc:creator>timbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 03:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190645</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Actually it might be chargeable if it could be demonstrated that one or more signers of the letter did so with the explicit intent of warning those involved in suspected crimes from avoiding testifying truthfully.  Am guessing that that really is the intent of the letter…to communicate from the top guys at CIA over the years that they are feeling compelled to send such a letter to the President…because things are about to heat up.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course, proving that the letter was an attempt to obstruct justice would be extremely difficult and probably impossible beyond a reasonable doubt…unless one reads the text literally…in which case, it does seem to be an attempt to get POTUS to shutdown USAG investigating prossible crimes.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually it might be chargeable if it could be demonstrated that one or more signers of the letter did so with the explicit intent of warning those involved in suspected crimes from avoiding testifying truthfully.  Am guessing that that really is the intent of the letter…to communicate from the top guys at CIA over the years that they are feeling compelled to send such a letter to the President…because things are about to heat up.</p>
<p>Of course, proving that the letter was an attempt to obstruct justice would be extremely difficult and probably impossible beyond a reasonable doubt…unless one reads the text literally…in which case, it does seem to be an attempt to get POTUS to shutdown USAG investigating prossible crimes.</p>
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		<title>By: timbo</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190643</link>
		<dc:creator>timbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 03:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190643</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Mary, thank you for your big picture update on what’s going on with US torture cases overseas.  It’s refreshing and reassuring to know that at least a few instances of illegal behavior and violations of international laws and norms are being investigated…even if the US government has decided that maybe it should prosecute the criminals who did these horrible things.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary, thank you for your big picture update on what’s going on with US torture cases overseas.  It’s refreshing and reassuring to know that at least a few instances of illegal behavior and violations of international laws and norms are being investigated…even if the US government has decided that maybe it should prosecute the criminals who did these horrible things.</p>
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		<title>By: TheOracle</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190642</link>
		<dc:creator>TheOracle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 03:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/18/poppy-bush-not-joining-other-dcis-opposing-investigation-of-w-bushs-torture/#comment-190642</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I can’t wait for the Teabaggers for Torture march on Washington, with participants chanting “We don’t torture! We don’t torture!” (repeating the Bush/Cheney administration line) while these seven former CIA Directors lead the march, shouting, too, like a wave at a football game, one after the other, “We don’t torture! We don’t torture!”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If this is true, that “We don’t torture,” then any investigation will turn up nothing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But since we already know this isn’t true, then these former CIA Directors must be covering for others besides the CIA officers who were ordered to use whatever means BushCo authorized to get detainees to talk, which makes me wonder just how much of BushCo’s torture practices were outsourced to private contractors and exactly how many detainees were literally tortured to death due to overzealous privately-contracted torturers-for-hire, in which these torturers-for-hire were probably paid bonuses for “results”?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Everything conservatives do in Washington (nowadays and what seems forever) is geared toward protecting corporations and the monied interests, the elites, the political and economic scavengers. Retroactive telecom immunity. Blocking investigations into war profiteering. Blocking investigations into torture of detainees. Blocking investigations into post-Katrina disaster-profiteering. Blocking healthcare reform that might cut into the profits of our nation’s current corporate healthcare scavengers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Conservative greed is the common denominator behind all conservative actions.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can’t wait for the Teabaggers for Torture march on Washington, with participants chanting “We don’t torture! We don’t torture!” (repeating the Bush/Cheney administration line) while these seven former CIA Directors lead the march, shouting, too, like a wave at a football game, one after the other, “We don’t torture! We don’t torture!”.</p>
<p>If this is true, that “We don’t torture,” then any investigation will turn up nothing.</p>
<p>But since we already know this isn’t true, then these former CIA Directors must be covering for others besides the CIA officers who were ordered to use whatever means BushCo authorized to get detainees to talk, which makes me wonder just how much of BushCo’s torture practices were outsourced to private contractors and exactly how many detainees were literally tortured to death due to overzealous privately-contracted torturers-for-hire, in which these torturers-for-hire were probably paid bonuses for “results”?</p>
<p>Everything conservatives do in Washington (nowadays and what seems forever) is geared toward protecting corporations and the monied interests, the elites, the political and economic scavengers. Retroactive telecom immunity. Blocking investigations into war profiteering. Blocking investigations into torture of detainees. Blocking investigations into post-Katrina disaster-profiteering. Blocking healthcare reform that might cut into the profits of our nation’s current corporate healthcare scavengers.</p>
<p>Conservative greed is the common denominator behind all conservative actions.</p>
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