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	<title>Comments on: Addington&#8217;s Direct Involvement in the Torture Memos</title>
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		<title>By: Jeff Kaye</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187992</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Kaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Since JPRA only goes back to 1999, do you mean the “survival” programs in general?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since JPRA only goes back to 1999, do you mean the “survival” programs in general?</p>
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		<title>By: Boston1775</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187977</link>
		<dc:creator>Boston1775</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 10:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;And if you are wondering where they got their supply of boys, google Boys Town, sexual abuse, CIA&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And if you are wondering where they got their supply of boys, google Boys Town, sexual abuse, CIA</p>
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		<title>By: Boston1775</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187976</link>
		<dc:creator>Boston1775</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 10:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Project Paperclip was organized to bring over Nazi scientists and doctors to the United States at the end of WWII.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The list of hospitals, universities, military sites, prisons and NASA facilities in which these experiments were done has been declassified.  At the time of Ted Kennedy’s hearing, that list was classified and Stan Turner said he would notify them privately.  Hmmmm…..&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The way that the CIA obtained children for experimentation is told to you by the second youtube above.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You see, she was sexually abused by her family and exploited.  When the CIA found the pictures or films which were spread through the pedophile rings, rather than arrest the families and find homes for the children, the CIA allowed the &lt;strong&gt;children to be sold to them&lt;/strong&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No jail time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;See how that keeps working out?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No jail time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For a corroborating story, and interestingly, a CIA agent that actually apparently did something to save a child, Kelly is her name, read this pdf:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.freedrive.com/file/327660,tranceformation-of-america–by–c-obrien&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.freedrive.com/file/.....1;c-obrien&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Project Paperclip was organized to bring over Nazi scientists and doctors to the United States at the end of WWII.</p>
<p>The list of hospitals, universities, military sites, prisons and NASA facilities in which these experiments were done has been declassified.  At the time of Ted Kennedy’s hearing, that list was classified and Stan Turner said he would notify them privately.  Hmmmm…..</p>
<p>The way that the CIA obtained children for experimentation is told to you by the second youtube above.</p>
<p>You see, she was sexually abused by her family and exploited.  When the CIA found the pictures or films which were spread through the pedophile rings, rather than arrest the families and find homes for the children, the CIA allowed the <strong>children to be sold to them</strong>.</p>
<p>No jail time.</p>
<p>See how that keeps working out?</p>
<p>No jail time.</p>
<p>For a corroborating story, and interestingly, a CIA agent that actually apparently did something to save a child, Kelly is her name, read this pdf:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.freedrive.com/file/327660,tranceformation-of-america–by–c-obrien" rel="nofollow">http://www.freedrive.com/file/&#8230;..1;c-obrien</a></p>
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		<title>By: Boston1775</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187975</link>
		<dc:creator>Boston1775</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 10:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187975</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;They’re coming out because now they might burn for someone else’s arrogance.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Never underestimate self-preservation; it’s very powerful.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;—————————————-&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In 1977, while Stan Turner was testifying under oath in front of Ted Kennedy’s committee, he was hiding the hideous fact that children were being tortured in dissociative states and trained to be spies and sex-slaves.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The following is from a 1995 Presidential Hearing on Radiation and Mind Control Experiments done on &lt;strong&gt;American Citizens.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iflBkRlpRy0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iflBkRlpRy0&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXDASDDrDkM&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXDASDDrDkM&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-ES8Bv0_8w&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-ES8Bv0_8w&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong><em>They’re coming out because now they might burn for someone else’s arrogance.</em></strong></p>
<p>Never underestimate self-preservation; it’s very powerful.</p>
<p>—————————————-</p>
<p>In 1977, while Stan Turner was testifying under oath in front of Ted Kennedy’s committee, he was hiding the hideous fact that children were being tortured in dissociative states and trained to be spies and sex-slaves.</p>
<p>The following is from a 1995 Presidential Hearing on Radiation and Mind Control Experiments done on <strong>American Citizens.<br /></strong><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iflBkRlpRy0" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iflBkRlpRy0</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXDASDDrDkM" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXDASDDrDkM</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-ES8Bv0_8w" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-ES8Bv0_8w</a></p>
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		<title>By: Boston1775</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187974</link>
		<dc:creator>Boston1775</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187974</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;bmaz asked you where were all of these heroic spooks for the last eight years.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Your reply was:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;They’re coming out because now they might burn for someone else’s arrogance.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Never underestimate self-preservation; it’s very powerful.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Kinda gives their values away, doesn’t it?  SELF-preservation?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is exactly how the head of the CIA, Admiral Stansfeld Turner, handled himself in front of the MKULTRA committee in 1977 after Kennedy’s committee was apprised of seven boxes of information of CIA subprojects which were not destroyed - accidentally.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Stan (he probably had a wife, kids and a mortgage) says:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Until the recent discovery, it was believed that all of the MKULTRA files dealing with behavioral modification had been destroyed in 1973 on the orders of the then retiring Chief of the Office of Technical Service, with the authorization of the DCI, as has been previously reported. Almost all of the people who had had any connection with the aspects of the project which interested Senate investigators in 1975 were no longer with the Agency at that time. Thus, there was little detailed knowledge of the MKULTRA subprojects available to CIA during the Church Committee investigations. This lack of available details, moreover, was probably not wholly attributable to the&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;destruction of MKULTRA files in 1973; the 1963 report on MKULTRA by the Inspector General notes on page 14: &lt;strong&gt;“Present practice is to maintain no records of the planning and approval of test programs.”&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Here’s the information that WASN’T intentionally destroyed - and mind you, the following acts were performed on &lt;strong&gt;Americans&lt;/strong&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1. Research into the effects of behavioral drugs and/or alcohol:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;     17 subprojects probably not involving human testing;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;     14 subprojects definitely involving tests on human volunteers;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;     19 subprojects probably including tests on human volunteers. While not known, some of these subprojects may have included tests on unwitting subjects as well;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;     6 subprojects involving tests on unwitting subjects.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2. Research on hypnosis: 8 subprojects, including 2 involving hypnosis and drugs in combination.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;3. Acquisition of chemicals or drugs: 7 subprojects.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;4. Aspects of magicians’ art useful in covert operations: e.g., surreptitious delivery of drug-related materials: 4 subprojects.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;5. Studies of human behavior, sleep research, and behavioral changes during psychotherapy: 9 subprojects.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;6. Library searches and attendance at seminars and international conferences on behavioral modification: 6 subprojects.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;7. Motivational studies, studies of defectors, assessment, and training techniques: 23 subprojects.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;8. Polygraph research: 3 subprojects.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;9. Funding mechanisms for MKULTRA external research activities: 3 subprojects.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;10. Research on drugs, toxins, and biologicals in human tissue; provision of exotic pathogens and the capability to incorporate them in effective delivery systems: 6 subprojects.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;11. Activities whose objectives cannot be determined from available documentation: 3 subprojects.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;12. Subprojects involving funding support for unspecified activities connected with the Army’s Special Operations Division at Fr. Detrick, Md. This activity is outline in Book I of the Church Committee Report, pp. 388-389. (See Appendix A, pp. 68-69.) Under CIA’s Project MKNAOMI, the Army Assisted CIA in developing, testing, and maintaining biological agents and delivery systems for use against humans as well as against animals and crops. The objectives of these subprojects cannot be identified from the recovered material beyond the fact that the money was to be used where normal funding channels would require more written or oral justification than appeared desirable for security reasons or where operational considerations dictated short lead times for purchases. About $11,000 was involved during this period 1953-1960: 3 subprojects.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;13. Single subprojects in such areas as effects of electro-shock, harassment techniques for offensive use, analysis of extrasensory perception, gas propelled sprays and aerosols, and four subprojects involving crop and material sabotage.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;14. One or two subprojects on each of the following:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;     “Blood Grouping” research, controlling the activity of animals, energy storage and transfer in organic systems; and&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;     stimulus and response in biological systems.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;15. Three subprojects canceled before any work was done on them having to do with laboratory drug screening, research on brain concussion, and research on biologically active materials to be tested through the skin on human volunteers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now, as to how much new the recovered material adds to what has previously been reported to the Church Committee and to Senator Kennedy’s Subcommittee on Health on these topics, the answer is additional detail, for the most part: e.g., the names of previously unidentified researchers and institutions associated on either a witting or unwitting basis with MKULTRA activities, and the names of CIA officials who approved or monitored the various subprojects. Some new substantive material is also present: e.g., details concerning proposals for experimentation and clinical testing associated with various research projects, and a possibly improper contribution by CIA to a private institution. However, the principal types of activities included have, for the most part, either been outlined to some extent or generally described in what was previously available to CIA in the way of documentation and was supplied by CIA to Senate investigators. For example:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Financial disbursement records for the period 1960-1964 for 76 of the 149 numbered MKULTRA subprojects had been recovered from the Office of Finance by CIA and were made available to the Church Committee investigators in August or September 1975.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The 1963 Inspector General report on MKULTRA made available to both the Church Committee and Senator Kennedy’s Subcommittee mentions electro-shock&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and harassment substances (pp. 4, 16); covert testing on unwitting U.S. citizens (pp. 7, 10-12); the search for new materials through arrangements with specialists in universities, pharmaceutical houses, hospitals, state and federal institutions, and private research organizations (pp. 7, 9); and the fact that the Technical Service Division of CIA had initiated 144 subprojects related to the control of human behavior between 1953-1963 (p. 21).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bmaz asked you where were all of these heroic spooks for the last eight years.</p>
<p>Your reply was:</p>
<p><em>They’re coming out because now they might burn for someone else’s arrogance.</em></p>
<p>Never underestimate self-preservation; it’s very powerful.</p>
<p>Kinda gives their values away, doesn’t it?  SELF-preservation?</p>
<p>This is exactly how the head of the CIA, Admiral Stansfeld Turner, handled himself in front of the MKULTRA committee in 1977 after Kennedy’s committee was apprised of seven boxes of information of CIA subprojects which were not destroyed &#8211; accidentally.</p>
<p>Stan (he probably had a wife, kids and a mortgage) says:</p>
<p>Until the recent discovery, it was believed that all of the MKULTRA files dealing with behavioral modification had been destroyed in 1973 on the orders of the then retiring Chief of the Office of Technical Service, with the authorization of the DCI, as has been previously reported. Almost all of the people who had had any connection with the aspects of the project which interested Senate investigators in 1975 were no longer with the Agency at that time. Thus, there was little detailed knowledge of the MKULTRA subprojects available to CIA during the Church Committee investigations. This lack of available details, moreover, was probably not wholly attributable to the</p>
<p>destruction of MKULTRA files in 1973; the 1963 report on MKULTRA by the Inspector General notes on page 14: <strong>“Present practice is to maintain no records of the planning and approval of test programs.”</strong></p>
<p>Here’s the information that WASN’T intentionally destroyed &#8211; and mind you, the following acts were performed on <strong>Americans</strong>:</p>
<p>1. Research into the effects of behavioral drugs and/or alcohol:</p>
<p>     17 subprojects probably not involving human testing;</p>
<p>     14 subprojects definitely involving tests on human volunteers;</p>
<p>     19 subprojects probably including tests on human volunteers. While not known, some of these subprojects may have included tests on unwitting subjects as well;</p>
<p>     6 subprojects involving tests on unwitting subjects.</p>
<p>2. Research on hypnosis: 8 subprojects, including 2 involving hypnosis and drugs in combination.</p>
<p>3. Acquisition of chemicals or drugs: 7 subprojects.</p>
<p>4. Aspects of magicians’ art useful in covert operations: e.g., surreptitious delivery of drug-related materials: 4 subprojects.</p>
<p>5. Studies of human behavior, sleep research, and behavioral changes during psychotherapy: 9 subprojects.</p>
<p>6. Library searches and attendance at seminars and international conferences on behavioral modification: 6 subprojects.</p>
<p>7. Motivational studies, studies of defectors, assessment, and training techniques: 23 subprojects.</p>
<p>8. Polygraph research: 3 subprojects.</p>
<p>9. Funding mechanisms for MKULTRA external research activities: 3 subprojects.</p>
<p>10. Research on drugs, toxins, and biologicals in human tissue; provision of exotic pathogens and the capability to incorporate them in effective delivery systems: 6 subprojects.</p>
<p>11. Activities whose objectives cannot be determined from available documentation: 3 subprojects.</p>
<p>12. Subprojects involving funding support for unspecified activities connected with the Army’s Special Operations Division at Fr. Detrick, Md. This activity is outline in Book I of the Church Committee Report, pp. 388-389. (See Appendix A, pp. 68-69.) Under CIA’s Project MKNAOMI, the Army Assisted CIA in developing, testing, and maintaining biological agents and delivery systems for use against humans as well as against animals and crops. The objectives of these subprojects cannot be identified from the recovered material beyond the fact that the money was to be used where normal funding channels would require more written or oral justification than appeared desirable for security reasons or where operational considerations dictated short lead times for purchases. About $11,000 was involved during this period 1953-1960: 3 subprojects.</p>
<p>13. Single subprojects in such areas as effects of electro-shock, harassment techniques for offensive use, analysis of extrasensory perception, gas propelled sprays and aerosols, and four subprojects involving crop and material sabotage.</p>
<p>14. One or two subprojects on each of the following:</p>
<p>     “Blood Grouping” research, controlling the activity of animals, energy storage and transfer in organic systems; and</p>
<p>     stimulus and response in biological systems.</p>
<p>15. Three subprojects canceled before any work was done on them having to do with laboratory drug screening, research on brain concussion, and research on biologically active materials to be tested through the skin on human volunteers.</p>
<p>Now, as to how much new the recovered material adds to what has previously been reported to the Church Committee and to Senator Kennedy’s Subcommittee on Health on these topics, the answer is additional detail, for the most part: e.g., the names of previously unidentified researchers and institutions associated on either a witting or unwitting basis with MKULTRA activities, and the names of CIA officials who approved or monitored the various subprojects. Some new substantive material is also present: e.g., details concerning proposals for experimentation and clinical testing associated with various research projects, and a possibly improper contribution by CIA to a private institution. However, the principal types of activities included have, for the most part, either been outlined to some extent or generally described in what was previously available to CIA in the way of documentation and was supplied by CIA to Senate investigators. For example:</p>
<p>Financial disbursement records for the period 1960-1964 for 76 of the 149 numbered MKULTRA subprojects had been recovered from the Office of Finance by CIA and were made available to the Church Committee investigators in August or September 1975.</p>
<p>The 1963 Inspector General report on MKULTRA made available to both the Church Committee and Senator Kennedy’s Subcommittee mentions electro-shock</p>
<p>and harassment substances (pp. 4, 16); covert testing on unwitting U.S. citizens (pp. 7, 10-12); the search for new materials through arrangements with specialists in universities, pharmaceutical houses, hospitals, state and federal institutions, and private research organizations (pp. 7, 9); and the fact that the Technical Service Division of CIA had initiated 144 subprojects related to the control of human behavior between 1953-1963 (p. 21).</p>
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		<title>By: SKIMPYPENGUIN</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187972</link>
		<dc:creator>SKIMPYPENGUIN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 06:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187972</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;JPRA has always been a two-headed monster:&lt;br /&gt;
preparing to defend against it, and studying ways to implement it regardless of which POTUS is in office.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“it” being torture.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JPRA has always been a two-headed monster:<br />
preparing to defend against it, and studying ways to implement it regardless of which POTUS is in office.</p>
<p>“it” being torture.</p>
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		<title>By: Garrett</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187971</link>
		<dc:creator>Garrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 04:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187971</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m interested to see whether they prosecute the death of Asad Jaleel in Iraq.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is the most brutal of all the deaths. It seems a very prosecutable case, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/OathBetrayed/DOD%20050659-015071.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;without&lt;/a&gt; the evidence problems. He had official EPW status.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It was Special Forces and regular soldiers who beat him, at separate times.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is a suggestion or a possibility of premeditated murder.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Two Special Forces interrogation notes before his deaths have notations like ”this guy is too dangerous to ever let out.” He was already badly beaten, with the distinct ring of bruising around his abdomen and some teeth knocked out, no longer able to stand, then they broke his neck and broke all his ribs and stuck a gag in his mouth.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s very much the sort of case they say they are intending to reconsider. Clearly beyond anything like an “authorization”. But the Special Forces involvement raises awkward questions.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m interested to see whether they prosecute the death of Asad Jaleel in Iraq.</p>
<p>It is the most brutal of all the deaths. It seems a very prosecutable case, <a href="http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/OathBetrayed/DOD%20050659-015071.pdf" rel="nofollow">without</a> the evidence problems. He had official EPW status.</p>
<p>It was Special Forces and regular soldiers who beat him, at separate times.</p>
<p>There is a suggestion or a possibility of premeditated murder.</p>
<p>Two Special Forces interrogation notes before his deaths have notations like ”this guy is too dangerous to ever let out.” He was already badly beaten, with the distinct ring of bruising around his abdomen and some teeth knocked out, no longer able to stand, then they broke his neck and broke all his ribs and stuck a gag in his mouth.</p>
<p>It’s very much the sort of case they say they are intending to reconsider. Clearly beyond anything like an “authorization”. But the Special Forces involvement raises awkward questions.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Kaye</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187970</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Kaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 04:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187970</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I also believe that SP’s scenario doesn’t fit all the facts. I agree with SP that JSOC is far more culpable than typically discussed. However, the interpenetration of SO and CIA is something even less discussed. You are correct to emphasize the previous existence of a long-standing torture program. To my knowledge, it has never been totally disassembled, and lived on within OTS at CIA, and perhaps J9 at JFCOM, if not at Ft. Huachuca. Cheney/Addington woke the tiger, and rode it, but the bureaucrats at these agencies have seen POTUSs and Veeps come and go. They remain. They get promoted. They go into industry, or start their own companies. The military-intelligence-industrial complex does not boil down to Cheney and Addington, no matter how you slice it. The latter may be indictable, and I certainly hope so, but we are looking at a many-headed hydra.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also believe that SP’s scenario doesn’t fit all the facts. I agree with SP that JSOC is far more culpable than typically discussed. However, the interpenetration of SO and CIA is something even less discussed. You are correct to emphasize the previous existence of a long-standing torture program. To my knowledge, it has never been totally disassembled, and lived on within OTS at CIA, and perhaps J9 at JFCOM, if not at Ft. Huachuca. Cheney/Addington woke the tiger, and rode it, but the bureaucrats at these agencies have seen POTUSs and Veeps come and go. They remain. They get promoted. They go into industry, or start their own companies. The military-intelligence-industrial complex does not boil down to Cheney and Addington, no matter how you slice it. The latter may be indictable, and I certainly hope so, but we are looking at a many-headed hydra.</p>
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		<title>By: fatster</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187968</link>
		<dc:creator>fatster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 03:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187968</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks, Mary and radiofreewill @ 84.  Despite all my frustration and anger about the Seigelman thing, I had forgotten the Hillman portion of this sorry mess.  So, frustration and anger up by many more notches now.  Sigh.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Mary and radiofreewill @ 84.  Despite all my frustration and anger about the Seigelman thing, I had forgotten the Hillman portion of this sorry mess.  So, frustration and anger up by many more notches now.  Sigh.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187959</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 02:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/09/06/addingtons-direct-involvement-in-the-torture-memos/#comment-187959</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m not sure if I know which judge you mean (on the complicated Abramoff intersections dengre is about the best there is) but Hillman himself got put on the District Court bench after his activities as head of Public Integrity were well received by RNC/White House/Abramoff and seemed to make Canary crew happy as well.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182793,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182793,00.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Anyway, when Hillman got his slot the WH tried to say it had all been “in the works” and appearances making it look like a payoff were coincidental and the similarity to Bybee giving away the torture farm and then getting his judicial appointment were also coincidental.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;EW did a piece on Hillman getting called in to discuss Siegelman&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/17/noel-hillman-gets-a-subpoena/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://emptywheel.firedoglake......-subpoena/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Bush took a run at putting ex-Abramoff *prosecutor* Judge Hillman onto the Third Circuit, but that fizzled.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/07/hbc-90000509&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.harpers.org/archive.....c-90000509&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m not sure if I know which judge you mean (on the complicated Abramoff intersections dengre is about the best there is) but Hillman himself got put on the District Court bench after his activities as head of Public Integrity were well received by RNC/White House/Abramoff and seemed to make Canary crew happy as well.<br /><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182793,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,182793,00.html</a></p>
<p>Anyway, when Hillman got his slot the WH tried to say it had all been “in the works” and appearances making it look like a payoff were coincidental and the similarity to Bybee giving away the torture farm and then getting his judicial appointment were also coincidental.</p>
<p>EW did a piece on Hillman getting called in to discuss Siegelman<br /><a href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/17/noel-hillman-gets-a-subpoena/" rel="nofollow">http://emptywheel.firedoglake&#8230;&#8230;-subpoena/</a><br />
Bush took a run at putting ex-Abramoff *prosecutor* Judge Hillman onto the Third Circuit, but that fizzled.<br /><a href="http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/07/hbc-90000509" rel="nofollow">http://www.harpers.org/archive&#8230;..c-90000509</a></p>
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