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	<title>Comments on: Ambinder on Holder</title>
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		<title>By: PJEvans</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172678</link>
		<dc:creator>PJEvans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m not surprised. My unreliable source (who doesn’t read here) was chortling this morning about how we can now nail Darth. That continued even after I pointed out that we’d have to get someone to flip first.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m not surprised. My unreliable source (who doesn’t read here) was chortling this morning about how we can now nail Darth. That continued even after I pointed out that we’d have to get someone to flip first.</p>
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		<title>By: TarheelDem</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172597</link>
		<dc:creator>TarheelDem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172597</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good point.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The piece seems to me to be motivated by someone who either wants to wave Holder off an investigation or warn him that if he pursues high-level elected and appointed officials in the White House of OVP, that he be able to stick the prosecution well so there is no room for doubt that opens up a tit for tat political game.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not impeaching Nixon and a number of his underlings and trying them led us to this sorry point.  It opened the way to the tit-for-tat impeachment of Clinton.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If impeachment is to mean anything for the future, at some point the impeachment of a president or vice-president must be for real issues of malfeasance.  So far the ones impeached have not.  And the ones who should have been impeached have escaped accountability.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point.</p>
<p>The piece seems to me to be motivated by someone who either wants to wave Holder off an investigation or warn him that if he pursues high-level elected and appointed officials in the White House of OVP, that he be able to stick the prosecution well so there is no room for doubt that opens up a tit for tat political game.</p>
<p>Not impeaching Nixon and a number of his underlings and trying them led us to this sorry point.  It opened the way to the tit-for-tat impeachment of Clinton.</p>
<p>If impeachment is to mean anything for the future, at some point the impeachment of a president or vice-president must be for real issues of malfeasance.  So far the ones impeached have not.  And the ones who should have been impeached have escaped accountability.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172594</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Naw, it wasn’t that wrong, I just think the DKos guy inferred (and not necessarily intentionally at all) more than was there.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Naw, it wasn’t that wrong, I just think the DKos guy inferred (and not necessarily intentionally at all) more than was there.</p>
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		<title>By: fatster</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172590</link>
		<dc:creator>fatster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh, shoot.  Thanks for correcting this.  (Got no tee vee, so did not see.)  I would ask it be deleted, but probably ok to leave it up as folks will see your comment that it was wrong (and not get up any hopes, as did I).  Sigh.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, shoot.  Thanks for correcting this.  (Got no tee vee, so did not see.)  I would ask it be deleted, but probably ok to leave it up as folks will see your comment that it was wrong (and not get up any hopes, as did I).  Sigh.</p>
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		<title>By: NMvoiceofreason</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172569</link>
		<dc:creator>NMvoiceofreason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172569</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Going back to your chess analogy, we need a good “pin” or “fork”, that puts both Queen Cheney and the other piece in jeopardy. Possible pieces include:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
David S. Addington, counsel to the vice president (2001-2005), chief of staff to the vice president (2005-2009)&lt;br /&gt;
Alberto R. Gonzales, White House counsel (2001-2005), and attorney general (2005-2008)&lt;br /&gt;
James Mitchell, consultant&lt;br /&gt;
George John Tenet, director of Central Intelligence (1997-2004)&lt;br /&gt;
Condoleezza Rice, national security advisor (2001-2005), secretary of state (2005-2008)&lt;br /&gt;
John Choon Yoo, deputy assistant attorney general, Office of Legal Counsel (2001-2003)&lt;br /&gt;
Jay Scott Bybee, assistant attorney general, Office of Legal Counsel (2001-2003), Judge, Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals (2003-present)&lt;br /&gt;
William “Jim” Haynes, Defense Department general counsel (2001-2008)&lt;br /&gt;
Donald Henry Rumsfeld, secretary of defense (2001-2006)&lt;br /&gt;
John Rizzo, CIA deputy general counsel (2002-2004), acting general counsel of the Central Intelligence Agency (2001-2002, 2004-present)&lt;br /&gt;
Steven Bradbury, principal deputy assistant attorney general, OLC (2004), acting assistant attorney general, OLC (2005-2009)&lt;br /&gt;
George Walker Bush, president (2001-2009)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Any ideas about the softest target?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Going back to your chess analogy, we need a good “pin” or “fork”, that puts both Queen Cheney and the other piece in jeopardy. Possible pieces include:</p>
<blockquote><p>
David S. Addington, counsel to the vice president (2001-2005), chief of staff to the vice president (2005-2009)<br />
Alberto R. Gonzales, White House counsel (2001-2005), and attorney general (2005-2008)<br />
James Mitchell, consultant<br />
George John Tenet, director of Central Intelligence (1997-2004)<br />
Condoleezza Rice, national security advisor (2001-2005), secretary of state (2005-2008)<br />
John Choon Yoo, deputy assistant attorney general, Office of Legal Counsel (2001-2003)<br />
Jay Scott Bybee, assistant attorney general, Office of Legal Counsel (2001-2003), Judge, Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals (2003-present)<br />
William “Jim” Haynes, Defense Department general counsel (2001-2008)<br />
Donald Henry Rumsfeld, secretary of defense (2001-2006)<br />
John Rizzo, CIA deputy general counsel (2002-2004), acting general counsel of the Central Intelligence Agency (2001-2002, 2004-present)<br />
Steven Bradbury, principal deputy assistant attorney general, OLC (2004), acting assistant attorney general, OLC (2005-2009)<br />
George Walker Bush, president (2001-2009)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Any ideas about the softest target?</p>
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		<title>By: Dismayed</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172556</link>
		<dc:creator>Dismayed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’ve long thought that Cheney will have to be removed from the field of play before any real accountabilty can be pursued against the previous gang of goons that ran amuck in the White House.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He’s simply too powerful and well connected to play soft-ball with, his organization will chew up and spit out any bottom up approach to righting the ship.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I equate taking Cheney off the board to removing an opponents queen in chess.  Some might think of it as cutting the head of a snake, but there is no question that removing Cheney from the board first is the first and only move that can reasonably be expected to yield results.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve long thought that Cheney will have to be removed from the field of play before any real accountabilty can be pursued against the previous gang of goons that ran amuck in the White House.</p>
<p>He’s simply too powerful and well connected to play soft-ball with, his organization will chew up and spit out any bottom up approach to righting the ship.</p>
<p>I equate taking Cheney off the board to removing an opponents queen in chess.  Some might think of it as cutting the head of a snake, but there is no question that removing Cheney from the board first is the first and only move that can reasonably be expected to yield results.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172551</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172551</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Aw, that is not what Williams said, and I watched the show yesterday.  Even the Dkos quote proves it is not what he said.  The key is they have not “yet” made such a determination and Williams did not even come close to addressing the situation of them putting a detainee on trial in the US and he gets acquitted, or future cases that come up, which are the two situations the policy was likely really designed to address.  Williams is a dope here and the DKos guy is biting off on it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aw, that is not what Williams said, and I watched the show yesterday.  Even the Dkos quote proves it is not what he said.  The key is they have not “yet” made such a determination and Williams did not even come close to addressing the situation of them putting a detainee on trial in the US and he gets acquitted, or future cases that come up, which are the two situations the policy was likely really designed to address.  Williams is a dope here and the DKos guy is biting off on it.</p>
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		<title>By: NMvoiceofreason</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172550</link>
		<dc:creator>NMvoiceofreason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Here here! Let the damning facts of history be shown. Acts matter more than words. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The road to the White House is paved with broken promises.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=5&amp;sec=3331&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;US AG oath of office&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Section 3331. Oath of office&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;      An individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an&lt;br /&gt;
    office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed&lt;br /&gt;
    services, shall take the following oath: “I, AB, do solemnly swear&lt;br /&gt;
    (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the&lt;br /&gt;
    United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I&lt;br /&gt;
    will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this&lt;br /&gt;
    obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of&lt;br /&gt;
    evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties&lt;br /&gt;
    of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.” This&lt;br /&gt;
    section does not affect other oaths required by law.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article06/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Supremacy Clause&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/5ZMGF9&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Geneva Conventions and Additional Protocol I require the ratifying parties to repress grave breaches of the conventions, which are classified as war crimes under statutes of the International Criminal Court and the U.S. War Crimes Act of 1996. States parties—that is, the ratifying parties—are required to search for persons who have allegedly committed or ordered the commission of grave breaches of the conventions and bring those persons before their own courts, or hand them over to another state party for trial.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So is Holder a perjurer or a coward?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here here! Let the damning facts of history be shown. Acts matter more than words. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The road to the White House is paved with broken promises.</p>
<p><a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=5&amp;sec=3331" rel="nofollow">US AG oath of office</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Section 3331. Oath of office</p>
<p>      An individual, except the President, elected or appointed to an<br />
    office of honor or profit in the civil service or uniformed<br />
    services, shall take the following oath: “I, AB, do solemnly swear<br />
    (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the<br />
    United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I<br />
    will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this<br />
    obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of<br />
    evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties<br />
    of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.” This<br />
    section does not affect other oaths required by law.</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article06/" rel="nofollow">Supremacy Clause</a></p>
<blockquote><p>This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/5ZMGF9" rel="nofollow">The Geneva Conventions and Additional Protocol I require the ratifying parties to repress grave breaches of the conventions, which are classified as war crimes under statutes of the International Criminal Court and the U.S. War Crimes Act of 1996. States parties—that is, the ratifying parties—are required to search for persons who have allegedly committed or ordered the commission of grave breaches of the conventions and bring those persons before their own courts, or hand them over to another state party for trial.</a></p>
<p>So is Holder a perjurer or a coward?</p>
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		<title>By: fatster</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172548</link>
		<dc:creator>fatster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172548</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;BREAKING - Senior DOJ Reporter: Obama NOT To Pursue Indefinite Detentions&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;by ShadowSD&lt;br /&gt;
Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 10:52:21 AM PDT&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Big news on The Chris Matthews show today from NBC Justice correspondent Pete Williams:”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[But is it true?]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/12/752666/-BREAKINGSenior-DOJ-Reporter:-Obama-NOT-To-Pursue-Indefinite-Detentions&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;
 “&gt;Link.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>BREAKING &#8211; Senior DOJ Reporter: Obama NOT To Pursue Indefinite Detentions</strong></p>
<p>by ShadowSD<br />
Sun Jul 12, 2009 at 10:52:21 AM PDT</p>
<p>“Big news on The Chris Matthews show today from NBC Justice correspondent Pete Williams:”</p>
<p>[But is it true?]</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/12/752666/-BREAKINGSenior-DOJ-Reporter:-Obama-NOT-To-Pursue-Indefinite-Detentions" rel="nofollow"><br />
 “&gt;Link.</a></p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172547</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/ambinder-on-holder/#comment-172547</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Listen, again, I hope you are right.  But nothing to date would support the extremely rosy view you hold.  In fact, everything to date would run directly contra.  Secondly, as to the statute of limitations, as i explained &lt;a href=&quot;http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/holder-v-rahm-the-torture-fight/#comment-172330&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;on the previous thread&lt;/a&gt;, only a fool would fail to be concerned by the expiration of such limitations periods.  Anybody who has practiced substantially in the criminal justice system would never make such a comment.  Lastly, what Mary pointed out @ 109 is more than true.  The conflicts posed are staggering.  And John Durham has some serious issues in this regard, at least for the wide ranging investigation you suggest being in the offing, because of his professional and personal friendship with Kevin O’Connor.  Based on what I have seen so far, i would not find Durham acceptable at all.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Listen, again, I hope you are right.  But nothing to date would support the extremely rosy view you hold.  In fact, everything to date would run directly contra.  Secondly, as to the statute of limitations, as i explained <a href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/holder-v-rahm-the-torture-fight/#comment-172330" rel="nofollow">on the previous thread</a>, only a fool would fail to be concerned by the expiration of such limitations periods.  Anybody who has practiced substantially in the criminal justice system would never make such a comment.  Lastly, what Mary pointed out @ 109 is more than true.  The conflicts posed are staggering.  And John Durham has some serious issues in this regard, at least for the wide ranging investigation you suggest being in the offing, because of his professional and personal friendship with Kevin O’Connor.  Based on what I have seen so far, i would not find Durham acceptable at all.</p>
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