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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;God&#8217;s Law&#8221; and Mark Sanford&#8217;s DIY Consequences</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/</link>
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		<title>By: tanbark</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/comment-page-1/#comment-168267</link>
		<dc:creator>tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/#comment-168267</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;mailto:JohnJ@32:&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;JohnJ@32:&lt;/a&gt; “It looks like this “C Street” is more of a Penthouse Forum Confessional than a religious group.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I mean, really. :o)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Again, what are the timelines for Sanford (and Ensign’s) learning curve?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Specifically, how long did it take for them to comprehend the error of their sinful ways, and then, to stop screwing around on their wives?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If it was cold-turkey-24-hours, then they’re on to something; but if the slippin’ and slidin’ (as Little Richard put it…) kinda dragged out for a few months (and I’m bettin’ it’s the latter.  :o) ) then their time spent with the C Group was essentially a palliative balm for any guilt they may have felt, and in that case Sanford shouldn’t be singing “Hosannah!” about how it clarified his murky sense of right and wrong.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Incidentally, I’d still like to hear some of those “hard questions” that they were asking the congresscritters.  Dare we speculate?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Oh, lets.  :o) :&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;C Group Torquemada-Lite: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Hi, Congressman Blivet!  Been gettin’ any strange lately?” &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the unlikely event that Blivet responds:  “Hayull yeah!  More ass than the toilet seat in the women’s room at Sans Souci!”, did the C Group instantly follow up with:   “Then your attendance is required at our little meetings, or we’ll send your wife an email or three about those 16 hour workdays and that four day junket to Acapulco with your long-legged, high-assed secretary.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Aha, Senator Cialis!  Good to run into you, hiding out in the Senate Cloakroom.  Is it true that the runner-up in the Miss Slingshit, Texas  contest has been hired as your new secretary, despite the fact that she can type 8 words a minute, and that some nights she stays over and sleeps on your office bed, to catch up on her work?  You don’t have to answer, but here’s our card, and we’ll expect to see you, too, at our little bible study group…capiche?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The problem is, all of the zealots think they, and ONLY they, know Jesus’s agenda.  And interpreting it as:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“What’s good for the Dow-Jones is good for amurka and God!” leads to all manner of problems, in terms of money (see the economic situation) and wars.&lt;br /&gt;
(See the ongoing body-parts flying through the Mesopotamian and Afghanistan air.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But it’s good that we have some sharp people like Marcy, and in this thread, Ms. Anna, helping to watch the watchers of our morals.  You could even say:  “It’s God’s work!”.  :o)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="mailto:JohnJ@32:" rel="nofollow">JohnJ@32:</a> “It looks like this “C Street” is more of a Penthouse Forum Confessional than a religious group.”</p>
<p>I mean, really. :o)</p>
<p>Again, what are the timelines for Sanford (and Ensign’s) learning curve?</p>
<p>Specifically, how long did it take for them to comprehend the error of their sinful ways, and then, to stop screwing around on their wives?  </p>
<p>If it was cold-turkey-24-hours, then they’re on to something; but if the slippin’ and slidin’ (as Little Richard put it…) kinda dragged out for a few months (and I’m bettin’ it’s the latter.  :o) ) then their time spent with the C Group was essentially a palliative balm for any guilt they may have felt, and in that case Sanford shouldn’t be singing “Hosannah!” about how it clarified his murky sense of right and wrong.  </p>
<p>Incidentally, I’d still like to hear some of those “hard questions” that they were asking the congresscritters.  Dare we speculate?  </p>
<p>Oh, lets.  :o) :</p>
<p>C Group Torquemada-Lite: </p>
<p>“Hi, Congressman Blivet!  Been gettin’ any strange lately?” </p>
<p>In the unlikely event that Blivet responds:  “Hayull yeah!  More ass than the toilet seat in the women’s room at Sans Souci!”, did the C Group instantly follow up with:   “Then your attendance is required at our little meetings, or we’ll send your wife an email or three about those 16 hour workdays and that four day junket to Acapulco with your long-legged, high-assed secretary.”</p>
<p>And:</p>
<p>“Aha, Senator Cialis!  Good to run into you, hiding out in the Senate Cloakroom.  Is it true that the runner-up in the Miss Slingshit, Texas  contest has been hired as your new secretary, despite the fact that she can type 8 words a minute, and that some nights she stays over and sleeps on your office bed, to catch up on her work?  You don’t have to answer, but here’s our card, and we’ll expect to see you, too, at our little bible study group…capiche?”</p>
<p>The problem is, all of the zealots think they, and ONLY they, know Jesus’s agenda.  And interpreting it as:</p>
<p>“What’s good for the Dow-Jones is good for amurka and God!” leads to all manner of problems, in terms of money (see the economic situation) and wars.<br />
(See the ongoing body-parts flying through the Mesopotamian and Afghanistan air.)</p>
<p>But it’s good that we have some sharp people like Marcy, and in this thread, Ms. Anna, helping to watch the watchers of our morals.  You could even say:  “It’s God’s work!”.  :o)</p>
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		<title>By: earlbo</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/comment-page-1/#comment-168252</link>
		<dc:creator>earlbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/#comment-168252</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The definition of marriage has been expanded.  Marriage is now between a man and a woman AND a woman in Argentina, who is also married.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What if you end up with a woman/women who believe that conversely marriage should also be between a woman and two men?  Would that be just hunky-dory too?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sanford was a activist trying to get the 10 Commandments posted in public places.  Now we know why — he can’t remember all of them.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The definition of marriage has been expanded.  Marriage is now between a man and a woman AND a woman in Argentina, who is also married.</p>
<p>What if you end up with a woman/women who believe that conversely marriage should also be between a woman and two men?  Would that be just hunky-dory too?</p>
<p>Sanford was a activist trying to get the 10 Commandments posted in public places.  Now we know why — he can’t remember all of them.</p>
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		<title>By: MsAnnaNOLA</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/comment-page-1/#comment-168249</link>
		<dc:creator>MsAnnaNOLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/#comment-168249</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If you read the article in Harpers “Jesus plus nothing”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it becomes very clear that the philosophy of this group has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus and has everything to do with power and money. The leader “coe” I think, or his son says as much if quoted properly in this article. He basically says is it wrong if you cheat and commit crimes in services of Jesus? Well no it doesn’t if you are serving Jesus which of course in thier eyes is getting more power. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It becomes clear from the article that the philosophy of this group is the ends justify the means and group members are chosen by god. This is a very convenient philosphy if you want to ammass great power and have an excuse to break the law of the land as well as that of morality in order to get it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is a dangerous philosophy that explains the Bush Administrations constant willingness to engage in illegal activity. I would not be surprised if every last one of them was a member of this organization. They think they are above the law because god has chosen them. This is very disturbing. I just glad Cheney is nowhere near the direct levers of power or we would surely have invaded Iran by now.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you read the article in Harpers “Jesus plus nothing”</p>
<p><a href="http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525" rel="nofollow">http://www.harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525</a></p>
<p>it becomes very clear that the philosophy of this group has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus and has everything to do with power and money. The leader “coe” I think, or his son says as much if quoted properly in this article. He basically says is it wrong if you cheat and commit crimes in services of Jesus? Well no it doesn’t if you are serving Jesus which of course in thier eyes is getting more power. </p>
<p>It becomes clear from the article that the philosophy of this group is the ends justify the means and group members are chosen by god. This is a very convenient philosphy if you want to ammass great power and have an excuse to break the law of the land as well as that of morality in order to get it.</p>
<p>This is a dangerous philosophy that explains the Bush Administrations constant willingness to engage in illegal activity. I would not be surprised if every last one of them was a member of this organization. They think they are above the law because god has chosen them. This is very disturbing. I just glad Cheney is nowhere near the direct levers of power or we would surely have invaded Iran by now.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnJ</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/comment-page-1/#comment-168243</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/#comment-168243</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It looks like this “C Street” is more of a Penthouse Forum confessional than a “religious” group.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Does anyone take notes on their meetings and submit them?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like this “C Street” is more of a Penthouse Forum confessional than a “religious” group.</p>
<p>Does anyone take notes on their meetings and submit them?</p>
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		<title>By: JohnJ</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/comment-page-1/#comment-168242</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/#comment-168242</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt; I think they hated him mostly because he had the…moxie…to sneak a few BJ’s in the White House.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ha, a family friend worked in the Roosevelt White House, (yes he unquestionably knew weeks ahead about Pearl Harbor), she told many stories about his doings. Clinton just choose a big mouth…oops, no pun intended; but a good one anyway &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> I think they hated him mostly because he had the…moxie…to sneak a few BJ’s in the White House.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Ha, a family friend worked in the Roosevelt White House, (yes he unquestionably knew weeks ahead about Pearl Harbor), she told many stories about his doings. Clinton just choose a big mouth…oops, no pun intended; but a good one anyway </p>
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		<title>By: WTFOver</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/comment-page-1/#comment-168241</link>
		<dc:creator>WTFOver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/#comment-168241</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Sanford Cites Secretive Christian Group’s Role in Helping Confront Affair&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/06/24/sanford-cites-secretive-christian-groups-role-in-helping-confront-affair.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.usnews.com/blogs/go.....ffair.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Mark Sanford’s news conference today was unusual for lot of reasons, &lt;strong&gt;but here’s a less obvious one:&lt;/strong&gt; The South Carolina governor referred to “C Street,” a Washington dormitory for lawmakers funded by a highly secretive Christian organization called the Fellowship. ( The Fellowship is the group behind the National Prayer Breakfast, where President Obama rolled out his Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships earlier this year. )&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;It’s rare for elected officials to publicly allude to C Street or to anything affiliated with the Fellowship.&lt;/strong&gt; But here’s the exchange between Sanford and a reporter:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    QUESTION: Did your wife and your family know about the affair before the trip to Argentina?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    SANFORD: Yes. We’ve been working through this thing for about the last five months. I’ve been to a lot of different—as part of what we called “C Street” when I was in Washington. It was, believe it or not, a Christian Bible study—some folks that asked members of Congress hard questions that I think were very, very important. And I’ve been working with them. I see Cubby Culbertson in the back of the room. I would consider him a spiritual giant. . . .&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Associated Press wrote about the Fellowship in 2003. &lt;strong&gt;Interesting to note that Sen. John Ensign, who admitted to an extramarital affair, is also closely affiliated with the group and is a resident of C Street.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Sanford Cites Secretive Christian Group’s Role in Helping Confront Affair</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/06/24/sanford-cites-secretive-christian-groups-role-in-helping-confront-affair.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.usnews.com/blogs/go&#8230;..ffair.html</a></p>
<p>Mark Sanford’s news conference today was unusual for lot of reasons, <strong>but here’s a less obvious one:</strong> The South Carolina governor referred to “C Street,” a Washington dormitory for lawmakers funded by a highly secretive Christian organization called the Fellowship. ( The Fellowship is the group behind the National Prayer Breakfast, where President Obama rolled out his Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships earlier this year. )</p>
<p><strong>It’s rare for elected officials to publicly allude to C Street or to anything affiliated with the Fellowship.</strong> But here’s the exchange between Sanford and a reporter:</p>
<p>    QUESTION: Did your wife and your family know about the affair before the trip to Argentina?</p>
<p>    SANFORD: Yes. We’ve been working through this thing for about the last five months. I’ve been to a lot of different—as part of what we called “C Street” when I was in Washington. It was, believe it or not, a Christian Bible study—some folks that asked members of Congress hard questions that I think were very, very important. And I’ve been working with them. I see Cubby Culbertson in the back of the room. I would consider him a spiritual giant. . . .</p>
<p>The Associated Press wrote about the Fellowship in 2003. <strong>Interesting to note that Sen. John Ensign, who admitted to an extramarital affair, is also closely affiliated with the group and is a resident of C Street.</strong></p>
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		<title>By: tanbark</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/comment-page-1/#comment-168240</link>
		<dc:creator>tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/#comment-168240</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;JohnJ: no problemo.  I think you’re spot-on about the “us and them” aspect of religion…and that sanctimonious self-righteousness is one reason why so many american voters were scared shitless about the prospect of Sarah Palin being one 71-year-old heartbeat away from the presidency. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And happily enough, I don’t think that fear is going to go away.  :o)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JohnJ: no problemo.  I think you’re spot-on about the “us and them” aspect of religion…and that sanctimonious self-righteousness is one reason why so many american voters were scared shitless about the prospect of Sarah Palin being one 71-year-old heartbeat away from the presidency. </p>
<p>And happily enough, I don’t think that fear is going to go away.  :o)</p>
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		<title>By: tanbark</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/comment-page-1/#comment-168239</link>
		<dc:creator>tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/#comment-168239</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;One problem for conservatives:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They don’t understand that lust and love are both part of a continuum.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Or maybe they understand it, and it frightens them. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; Writing Elizabethan sonnets to your partner is OK, just don’t talk dirty to her/him when you’re getting into the short rows.  :o) &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I actually only read one of Sanford’s emails.  What I read as an expression of affection and attraction was not bad.  There was a sincerity to it that somehow, embarassed me, to be reading it.  I felt like a voyeur.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And then I remembered the joy of the conservatives as they lovingly fondled every word and act of Bill Clinton’s infidelity with Monica.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Prurient” doesn’t begin to describe it.   I think they hated him mostly because he had the…moxie…to sneak a few BJ’s in the White House.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One problem for conservatives:</p>
<p>They don’t understand that lust and love are both part of a continuum.  </p>
<p>Or maybe they understand it, and it frightens them. </p>
<p> Writing Elizabethan sonnets to your partner is OK, just don’t talk dirty to her/him when you’re getting into the short rows.  :o) </p>
<p>I actually only read one of Sanford’s emails.  What I read as an expression of affection and attraction was not bad.  There was a sincerity to it that somehow, embarassed me, to be reading it.  I felt like a voyeur.</p>
<p>And then I remembered the joy of the conservatives as they lovingly fondled every word and act of Bill Clinton’s infidelity with Monica.  </p>
<p>“Prurient” doesn’t begin to describe it.   I think they hated him mostly because he had the…moxie…to sneak a few BJ’s in the White House.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnJ</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/comment-page-1/#comment-168238</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/#comment-168238</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;yesterday, in an AP article on this little soap-opera, they noted, mid-piece, that Sanford had voted for 3 of the 4 articles of impeachment against Bill Clinton, and that he had talked about “moral legitimacy”.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Didn’t catch that part, thank you. I get very little computer time in my current situation and have to rely on the synopses provided here instead of in depth reading. I regrettably miss a bit that way.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I was making more of a sardonic comment on the faux-religious that use religion as a weapon. As an example; I love using Jerry Falwell as an example of how important yet hard it is to deal with the Taliban.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>yesterday, in an AP article on this little soap-opera, they noted, mid-piece, that Sanford had voted for 3 of the 4 articles of impeachment against Bill Clinton, and that he had talked about “moral legitimacy”.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Didn’t catch that part, thank you. I get very little computer time in my current situation and have to rely on the synopses provided here instead of in depth reading. I regrettably miss a bit that way.</p>
<p>I was making more of a sardonic comment on the faux-religious that use religion as a weapon. As an example; I love using Jerry Falwell as an example of how important yet hard it is to deal with the Taliban.</p>
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		<title>By: tanbark</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/comment-page-1/#comment-168234</link>
		<dc:creator>tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/25/gods-law-and-mark-sanfords-diy-consequences/#comment-168234</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;BMaz; as an effective governor, you nailed it; he’s done for.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The problem is, more recently, the S.C.’s governor’s role is somewhere graven in stone as:  “Don’t rock the boat!”  And the legislators might be delighted to have a year-and-a-half of dealing with a governor who’s practically neutered himself. :o)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;BrendanX; good question.  I don’t know, but these days, we all know that “private emails” can be turned into public emails.&lt;br /&gt;
     It almost had to be an inside job.  Wouldn’t there be passwords and firewalls up the gum-stump?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Computer-wise, it’s above my pay grade.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BMaz; as an effective governor, you nailed it; he’s done for.  </p>
<p>The problem is, more recently, the S.C.’s governor’s role is somewhere graven in stone as:  “Don’t rock the boat!”  And the legislators might be delighted to have a year-and-a-half of dealing with a governor who’s practically neutered himself. :o)</p>
<p>BrendanX; good question.  I don’t know, but these days, we all know that “private emails” can be turned into public emails.<br />
     It almost had to be an inside job.  Wouldn’t there be passwords and firewalls up the gum-stump?  </p>
<p>Computer-wise, it’s above my pay grade.</p>
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