Comments on: The CIA Loses Control of the Narrative http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/ Tue, 24 Nov 2009 04:46:47 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: mediaskeptic http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-168024 mediaskeptic Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:42:24 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/#comment-168024 <p>Oops! Unfortunate choice of wording.</p> Oops! Unfortunate choice of wording.

]]> By: Mary http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-167991 Mary Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:42:26 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/#comment-167991 <p>wrong thread - let me see if I can move this</p> wrong thread – let me see if I can move this

]]> By: mediaskeptic http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-167981 mediaskeptic Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:00:58 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/#comment-167981 <p>It’s not “my personal semantical distinction.” It’s a fact. There is no “right to torture.” How can you make an appeal for a right that doesn’t exist? Just pointing out the unfortunate choice the wording. I meant no offense. I was only making a constructive criticism. No need to be angry.</p> It’s not “my personal semantical distinction.” It’s a fact. There is no “right to torture.” How can you make an appeal for a right that doesn’t exist? Just pointing out the unfortunate choice the wording. I meant no offense. I was only making a constructive criticism. No need to be angry.

]]> By: bmaz http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-167959 bmaz Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:57:29 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/#comment-167959 <p>Language does indeed matter and being accurate matters. The sentence as written was, and is, accurate. They were arrogating to themselves the right to torture. That is precisely what was occurring and it should be called such irrespective of your personal semantical distinctions.</p> Language does indeed matter and being accurate matters. The sentence as written was, and is, accurate. They were arrogating to themselves the right to torture. That is precisely what was occurring and it should be called such irrespective of your personal semantical distinctions.

]]> By: susiedow http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-167955 susiedow Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:51:59 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/#comment-167955 <p>The entire narrative is non-sensical.</p> <p>A “fixer” is first and foremost a translator for somebody. Second, a body guard as they need to keep their client safe. I’m getting the impression AZ was in reality little more than a gofer, if that. Which, with his bizarre diary, makes him a rather sad and hapless wannabe jihadist groupie with no real skills to speak of. </p> <p>fwiw, there’s a (hilarious) book that describes in detail the relationship between a fixer and a journalist: <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Curse-Al-Dulaimi-Hotel-Half-truths/dp/1906308020" rel="nofollow">The Curse of the Al Dulaimi Hotel</a> by Colin Freeman.</p> The entire narrative is non-sensical.

A “fixer” is first and foremost a translator for somebody. Second, a body guard as they need to keep their client safe. I’m getting the impression AZ was in reality little more than a gofer, if that. Which, with his bizarre diary, makes him a rather sad and hapless wannabe jihadist groupie with no real skills to speak of.

fwiw, there’s a (hilarious) book that describes in detail the relationship between a fixer and a journalist: The Curse of the Al Dulaimi Hotel by Colin Freeman.

]]> By: mediaskeptic http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-167953 mediaskeptic Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:48:07 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/#comment-167953 <p>I read your excellent post and agree fully with your analysis, but one thing in it really struck me. In this paragraph,</p> <p> “The first is that CIA anticipates it’ll have to make the argument about whether or not CIA oversold Abu Zubaydah’s position when they appealed for the right to torture. Since the “approval” granted by the Bybee Two memo rides on whether or not Abu Zubaydah was a high level operative, I can imagine that CIA would invest some (futile) energy in trying to pitch that story.”</p> <p>You use the phrase, “the right to torture”. I found this rather disturbing. Maybe I’m being anal, but it seems to me that the way that we use language matters. I know it was not your intent to infer that torture is a “right”, but that’s how it comes out sounding (or reading). I can just image one of the lunatic fringe torture apologists pointing to your article and saying, “See, even Marcy Wheeler concedes that the CIA has the right to torture”.</p> <p>Again, I know it was not your intent, but how we use language matters. Otherwise the CIA , the politicians, and the pundits, wouldn’t bother with the euphemisms like enhanced interrogation, sleep adjustment, and prolonged detention. They’d just call it what it is, torture.</p> I read your excellent post and agree fully with your analysis, but one thing in it really struck me. In this paragraph,

“The first is that CIA anticipates it’ll have to make the argument about whether or not CIA oversold Abu Zubaydah’s position when they appealed for the right to torture. Since the “approval” granted by the Bybee Two memo rides on whether or not Abu Zubaydah was a high level operative, I can imagine that CIA would invest some (futile) energy in trying to pitch that story.”

You use the phrase, “the right to torture”. I found this rather disturbing. Maybe I’m being anal, but it seems to me that the way that we use language matters. I know it was not your intent to infer that torture is a “right”, but that’s how it comes out sounding (or reading). I can just image one of the lunatic fringe torture apologists pointing to your article and saying, “See, even Marcy Wheeler concedes that the CIA has the right to torture”.

Again, I know it was not your intent, but how we use language matters. Otherwise the CIA , the politicians, and the pundits, wouldn’t bother with the euphemisms like enhanced interrogation, sleep adjustment, and prolonged detention. They’d just call it what it is, torture.

]]> By: Rayne http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-167951 Rayne Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:27:26 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/#comment-167951 <p>Unless, of course, the dirty f*cking hippie bloggers can swamp the attempts at shifting the Overton Window back in the other direction.</p> <p>All they have at this point is the Rove methodology of repeating the same story over and over again until it becomes conventional wisdom.</p> Unless, of course, the dirty f*cking hippie bloggers can swamp the attempts at shifting the Overton Window back in the other direction.

All they have at this point is the Rove methodology of repeating the same story over and over again until it becomes conventional wisdom.

]]> By: WilliamOckham http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-167950 WilliamOckham Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:22:50 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/#comment-167950 <p>I read this slightly differently. This is a public signal from (the torture faction inside) the CIA to their Republican allies that there is a new past to replace the old one which is no longer useful. The new story will be that he was waterboarded because he was a major terrorist facilitator. If the Dems are anybody else makes an issue of this, it will be reported as ‘he said, she said’ and the torturers will win. I can hear Chris Cizilla, for example, saying the American people aren’t interested in this silly partisan debate over whether or not AZ was the al Qaeda #3 or a major terrorist facilitator, they just want Congress to pass a bipartisan health care reform bill.</p> <p>I don’t think they’re losing control of the narrative at all. I think they’ll probably suceed at moving the goalposts.</p> I read this slightly differently. This is a public signal from (the torture faction inside) the CIA to their Republican allies that there is a new past to replace the old one which is no longer useful. The new story will be that he was waterboarded because he was a major terrorist facilitator. If the Dems are anybody else makes an issue of this, it will be reported as ‘he said, she said’ and the torturers will win. I can hear Chris Cizilla, for example, saying the American people aren’t interested in this silly partisan debate over whether or not AZ was the al Qaeda #3 or a major terrorist facilitator, they just want Congress to pass a bipartisan health care reform bill.

I don’t think they’re losing control of the narrative at all. I think they’ll probably suceed at moving the goalposts.

]]> By: Rayne http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-167949 Rayne Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:28:15 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/#comment-167949 <p>Now I’m wondering if POTUS and Panetta were made aware of info in the photos’ metadata or not — or were they simply told by the internal equivalent of Mr. Little that the content of the photos, consisting of acts which might raise the ire of certain entities, was enough reason to withhold the photos.</p> <p>drational (10, EW (13) — wouldn’t it be possible that Mr. Little or his handlers already know exactly which intel folks Finn spoke with or didn’t speak with, making either Little’s claim that Finn didn’t talk with the CIA an outright fabrication, or a long stretch of the truth?</p> Now I’m wondering if POTUS and Panetta were made aware of info in the photos’ metadata or not — or were they simply told by the internal equivalent of Mr. Little that the content of the photos, consisting of acts which might raise the ire of certain entities, was enough reason to withhold the photos.

drational (10, EW (13) — wouldn’t it be possible that Mr. Little or his handlers already know exactly which intel folks Finn spoke with or didn’t speak with, making either Little’s claim that Finn didn’t talk with the CIA an outright fabrication, or a long stretch of the truth?

]]> By: orionATL http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-167948 orionATL Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:19:45 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/23/the-cia-loses-control-of-the-narrative/#comment-167948 <p>i sit here thinking how many man-hrs, how many man-days, how many man-years will the cia burn trying to cover up its latest bungle (torturing)?</p> <p>i wonder that the cia management has time, or takes time, to do anything else, like maybe manage intelligence gathering efforts intelligently.</p> i sit here thinking how many man-hrs, how many man-days, how many man-years will the cia burn trying to cover up its latest bungle (torturing)?

i wonder that the cia management has time, or takes time, to do anything else, like maybe manage intelligence gathering efforts intelligently.

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