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	<title>Comments on: Ibn Sheikh al-Libi IDs Others</title>
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		<title>By: Andy Worthington</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167201</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Worthington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 09:39:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167201</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Mary.&lt;br /&gt;
I thought it might be the Batarfi case. Email me offlist if you want to know more.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of the numerous notorious liars, it appears that one particular Yemeni is indeed causing problems for the majority of the other Yemenis. Read between the lines in this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/02/AR2009020203337.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Washington Post&lt;/a&gt; article for a clearer picture. It’s also worth pointing out that the unreliability of this witness been known about since Corine Hegland broke the story in the National Journal in 2006. See: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2007/07/03/guantanamo-whistleblowers-lt-col-stephen-abraham-is-not-the-first-insider-to-condemn-the-kangaroo-courts/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Guantánamo whistleblowers: Lt. Col. Stephen Abraham is not the first insider to condemn the kangaroo courts&lt;/a&gt; (and this is a good introduction to Stephen Abraham, for those who haven’t come across him).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What’s particularly disturbing about all this (apart from the fact that it’s not being properly reported, of course) is that everything in the habeas cases is still proceeding on a case-by-case basis, and there’s no official mechanism for ruling out all unreliable testimony from particular witnesses, although it’s clear that what’s happening now is that judges are referring to the small body of previous habeas rulings to reinforce their opinions.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Once this cat is out of the bag, it explains the scale of DoJ obstruction in the habeas courts — although it doesn’t explain why they don’t just give up in the majority of cases!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I hope to tackle this in depth in the coming week, but in the meantime I think bmaz has it right: “Serial abuse by the prosecution of a single demonstrably disingenuous ‘expert’ witness across multiple and different case lines is tantamount to suborning perjury.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mary.<br />
I thought it might be the Batarfi case. Email me offlist if you want to know more.</p>
<p>Of the numerous notorious liars, it appears that one particular Yemeni is indeed causing problems for the majority of the other Yemenis. Read between the lines in this <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/02/AR2009020203337.html" rel="nofollow">Washington Post</a> article for a clearer picture. It’s also worth pointing out that the unreliability of this witness been known about since Corine Hegland broke the story in the National Journal in 2006. See: <a href="http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2007/07/03/guantanamo-whistleblowers-lt-col-stephen-abraham-is-not-the-first-insider-to-condemn-the-kangaroo-courts/" rel="nofollow">Guantánamo whistleblowers: Lt. Col. Stephen Abraham is not the first insider to condemn the kangaroo courts</a> (and this is a good introduction to Stephen Abraham, for those who haven’t come across him).</p>
<p>What’s particularly disturbing about all this (apart from the fact that it’s not being properly reported, of course) is that everything in the habeas cases is still proceeding on a case-by-case basis, and there’s no official mechanism for ruling out all unreliable testimony from particular witnesses, although it’s clear that what’s happening now is that judges are referring to the small body of previous habeas rulings to reinforce their opinions.</p>
<p>Once this cat is out of the bag, it explains the scale of DoJ obstruction in the habeas courts — although it doesn’t explain why they don’t just give up in the majority of cases!</p>
<p>I hope to tackle this in depth in the coming week, but in the meantime I think bmaz has it right: “Serial abuse by the prosecution of a single demonstrably disingenuous ‘expert’ witness across multiple and different case lines is tantamount to suborning perjury.”</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Worthington</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167200</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Worthington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 09:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167200</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Jeff,&lt;br /&gt;
No news yet. A Libyan blogger just left a brief message on my site saying that high-level people in the Libyan regime were involved …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And a Libyan film-maker friend posted the article on various Libyan websites, so maybe more information will emerge …&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeff,<br />
No news yet. A Libyan blogger just left a brief message on my site saying that high-level people in the Libyan regime were involved …</p>
<p>And a Libyan film-maker friend posted the article on various Libyan websites, so maybe more information will emerge …</p>
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		<title>By: zgveritas</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167185</link>
		<dc:creator>zgveritas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167185</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;oops… comment moved to other thread&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops… comment moved to other thread</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Kaye</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167142</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Kaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 23:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167142</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Marcy, Andy, Mary, Rayne, Ondelette, etc., thanks all so much for putting together this extremely complex material, and documenting the criminal sham that is/was the “war on terror”, built on lies, torture, and sadism, and deeply rooted in the state apparatus and a network of defense and “homeland security” suppliers, media shills, and morally bankrupt politicians and government employees.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One’s gorge rises, daily.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Andy… any ideas as to the timing of al-Libi’s death?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marcy, Andy, Mary, Rayne, Ondelette, etc., thanks all so much for putting together this extremely complex material, and documenting the criminal sham that is/was the “war on terror”, built on lies, torture, and sadism, and deeply rooted in the state apparatus and a network of defense and “homeland security” suppliers, media shills, and morally bankrupt politicians and government employees.</p>
<p>One’s gorge rises, daily.</p>
<p>Andy… any ideas as to the timing of al-Libi’s death?</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167137</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 23:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167137</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Add in covering up his mental health issues despite direct court orders and just one of the defense teams finding out about those issues “inadvertently” = it’s all just foul.  Add in Karma laffing while they alot a guy named “Warden” to show up to argue Gov’s case for being able to hold in indefinite detention, and Jkat’s right - it would almost be comical&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;if not for all the people who died on 9/11&lt;br /&gt;
if not for all the firemen and police and others who exposed themselves to toxins and early death in the clean up&lt;br /&gt;
if not for all “mistakes” whose stories, if told truthfully, can only create more hate&lt;br /&gt;
if not for abandoning the Geneva Conventions and encouraging the US military towards the brink of depravity and over it&lt;br /&gt;
if not for all the soldiers who never made it home&lt;br /&gt;
if not for all the soldiers who made it home but with their bodies or minds devastated&lt;br /&gt;
if not for all the Iraqis who have been killed, raped, disenfranchised, orphaned, tortured, and turned into refugees&lt;br /&gt;
if not for all the problems we left unaddressed while we pursued a goal of Iraqi and Afghan occupation without application of the Geneva Conventions or UCMJ to protect their populations&lt;br /&gt;
if not for all the fallout that is yet to come.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Then not much seems all that funny anymore.  Unless, I guess, you are Dick Cheney or DOJ lawyers, whose biggest fear in life is that their statements might be laughable.&lt;br /&gt;
/vent&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Add in covering up his mental health issues despite direct court orders and just one of the defense teams finding out about those issues “inadvertently” = it’s all just foul.  Add in Karma laffing while they alot a guy named “Warden” to show up to argue Gov’s case for being able to hold in indefinite detention, and Jkat’s right &#8211; it would almost be comical</p>
<p>if not for all the people who died on 9/11<br />
if not for all the firemen and police and others who exposed themselves to toxins and early death in the clean up<br />
if not for all “mistakes” whose stories, if told truthfully, can only create more hate<br />
if not for abandoning the Geneva Conventions and encouraging the US military towards the brink of depravity and over it<br />
if not for all the soldiers who never made it home<br />
if not for all the soldiers who made it home but with their bodies or minds devastated<br />
if not for all the Iraqis who have been killed, raped, disenfranchised, orphaned, tortured, and turned into refugees<br />
if not for all the problems we left unaddressed while we pursued a goal of Iraqi and Afghan occupation without application of the Geneva Conventions or UCMJ to protect their populations<br />
if not for all the fallout that is yet to come.</p>
<p>Then not much seems all that funny anymore.  Unless, I guess, you are Dick Cheney or DOJ lawyers, whose biggest fear in life is that their statements might be laughable.<br />
/vent</p>
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		<title>By: Jkat</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167132</link>
		<dc:creator>Jkat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167132</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;i grow weary of abu al dinja aka ali bin saldi aka mohammed al bintz .. aka ..aka… aka … sheesh … having said that ..however .. i like the  way mary lays it out .. lies given under torture create false leads which lead to more torture creating more false leads .. and the whole mess ends up like a rendition of “pop-goes-the-weasel” .. our illustrious enhanced interrogators wound up chasing their own tails .. it’d be comical if not for the string of battered and zipped-up body bags .. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it’s simply despicable … and that’s not nearly strong enough a word …&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i grow weary of abu al dinja aka ali bin saldi aka mohammed al bintz .. aka ..aka… aka … sheesh … having said that ..however .. i like the  way mary lays it out .. lies given under torture create false leads which lead to more torture creating more false leads .. and the whole mess ends up like a rendition of “pop-goes-the-weasel” .. our illustrious enhanced interrogators wound up chasing their own tails .. it’d be comical if not for the string of battered and zipped-up body bags .. </p>
<p>it’s simply despicable … and that’s not nearly strong enough a word …</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167130</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167130</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Serial abuse by the prosecution of a single demonstrably disingenuous “expert” witness across multiple and different case lines is tantamount to suborning perjury.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Serial abuse by the prosecution of a single demonstrably disingenuous “expert” witness across multiple and different case lines is tantamount to suborning perjury.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167126</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167126</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;One other thing - I believe that it may be the witness in the Batarfi case, with the transcript linked above, is very likely the same witness Judge Kessler was referring to in the  Alla Ali Bin Ali Ahmed case &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/05/14/judge-condemns-mosaic-of-guantanamo-intelligence-and-unreliable-witnesses/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;you write about&lt;/a&gt; (the May 14 piece) here:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Dealing first with the witnesses, she excluded the testimony of the first, “whose credibility has been cast into serious doubt — and rejected” by Judge Leon in the case of Mohammed El-Gharani. Noting that he “has made accusations against a number of detainees” at Guantánamo, and that “Many of those accusations have been called into question by the government,” Judge Kessler dismissed his claim that he “overheard” conversations at Guantánamo about Ali Ahmed’s travels in Afghanistan, stating that, “In addition to coming from an unreliable witness,” it was “based upon multiple levels of hearsay.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If I’m right, you would have Judge Leon and defense lawyers in the one case being given under seal information that undermined credibility, to the point that he (and he’s no bleeding heart) discounted the witness.  You then have, in addition ot the info undermining credibility that Gov was making available about this witness, the defense lawyers in Batarfi being “inadvertently” given info that also makes it clear that this witness has undisclosed mental health issues, and Judge Sullivan in April ordering that info be shared with other affected defendants, then Judge Kessler in May having the same involved in the allegations before her for Alla Ali Bin Ali Ahmed.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Sullivan transcript certainly reads as if the “witness” is widely used by Gov as the only or main witness in many cases and this is consistent with Kessler talking about the fact that the witness she describes is involved in a “number of” Gitmo cases.  There were some stories that obliquely referenced the 90+ Yemenis at GITMO as being a particular problem and I have to wonder, since many detainees share the issue of not being able to be returned to home countries for fear of [more] torture, if the special case situation for them isn’t partly tied to the fact that very many of them were held only due to information from the crazy guy who DOJ said has really bad credibility problems OTHER THAN being a crazy guy. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;all fwiw.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other thing &#8211; I believe that it may be the witness in the Batarfi case, with the transcript linked above, is very likely the same witness Judge Kessler was referring to in the  Alla Ali Bin Ali Ahmed case <a href="http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/05/14/judge-condemns-mosaic-of-guantanamo-intelligence-and-unreliable-witnesses/" rel="nofollow">you write about</a> (the May 14 piece) here:</p>
<blockquote><p>Dealing first with the witnesses, she excluded the testimony of the first, “whose credibility has been cast into serious doubt — and rejected” by Judge Leon in the case of Mohammed El-Gharani. Noting that he “has made accusations against a number of detainees” at Guantánamo, and that “Many of those accusations have been called into question by the government,” Judge Kessler dismissed his claim that he “overheard” conversations at Guantánamo about Ali Ahmed’s travels in Afghanistan, stating that, “In addition to coming from an unreliable witness,” it was “based upon multiple levels of hearsay.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>If I’m right, you would have Judge Leon and defense lawyers in the one case being given under seal information that undermined credibility, to the point that he (and he’s no bleeding heart) discounted the witness.  You then have, in addition ot the info undermining credibility that Gov was making available about this witness, the defense lawyers in Batarfi being “inadvertently” given info that also makes it clear that this witness has undisclosed mental health issues, and Judge Sullivan in April ordering that info be shared with other affected defendants, then Judge Kessler in May having the same involved in the allegations before her for Alla Ali Bin Ali Ahmed.  </p>
<p>The Sullivan transcript certainly reads as if the “witness” is widely used by Gov as the only or main witness in many cases and this is consistent with Kessler talking about the fact that the witness she describes is involved in a “number of” Gitmo cases.  There were some stories that obliquely referenced the 90+ Yemenis at GITMO as being a particular problem and I have to wonder, since many detainees share the issue of not being able to be returned to home countries for fear of [more] torture, if the special case situation for them isn’t partly tied to the fact that very many of them were held only due to information from the crazy guy who DOJ said has really bad credibility problems OTHER THAN being a crazy guy. </p>
<p>all fwiw.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167116</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167116</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Voila - a link to the transcript&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://media.mcclatchydc.com/smedia/2009/04/06/19/Taylor-batarfi.source.prod_affiliate.91.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://media.mcclatchydc.com/s…..ate.91.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It was kindly made available by McClatchey.  I’m going to see if I can find someplace to save this link now that I’ve refound it.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Some samples of what you’ll find:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To hide, and I don’t use that word loosely, to hide relevant and exculpatory evidence from counseland from the Court under any circumstances, particularly here where there is no other means to discover this information and where the stakes are so very high and due(sic) indeed include indefinite detention, is fundamentally unjust, outrageous, and will not be tolerated. Fortunately, Dr. Batarfi’s counsel have been diligent and tireless in their efforts, but no one, Dr. Batarfi and not this Court, should have to rely on luck to discover evidence critical to a just resolution&lt;br /&gt;
…&lt;br /&gt;
In the face of repeated failures to comply with this Court’s orders, to produce exculpatory evidence, even after orders to show cause and the requirement of no fewer than four declarations from officials at the highest levels of our government, how can this Court have any confidence whatsoever in the United States government to comply with its obligations and to be truthful to the Court?&lt;br /&gt;
…&lt;br /&gt;
THE COURT: And he’s sick too. The man’s sick, right? Everyone agrees he ought to be in the hospital, he ought not behind bars. He ought to be in a hospital getting treatment. This is barbaric treatment of this man without any regard to his rights whatsoever and I’m not going to be a part of it.&lt;br /&gt;
…&lt;br /&gt;
[Gov] …I think, though, to give the process a fair shake, it’s only been two days.&lt;br /&gt;
THE COURT: Fairness? You’re talking about fairness? This man’s been in jail for seven years and the government now says it’s time to look at fairness?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hope this isn’t too late for you to pick it up.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks for adding all the information you have in this thread.  EW has such good posts and gets them out so quickly that they attract additional info in the comments like a huge magnet.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Voila &#8211; a link to the transcript</p>
<p><a href="http://media.mcclatchydc.com/smedia/2009/04/06/19/Taylor-batarfi.source.prod_affiliate.91.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://media.mcclatchydc.com/s…..ate.91.pdf</a></p>
<p>It was kindly made available by McClatchey.  I’m going to see if I can find someplace to save this link now that I’ve refound it.  </p>
<p>Some samples of what you’ll find:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>To hide, and I don’t use that word loosely, to hide relevant and exculpatory evidence from counseland from the Court under any circumstances, particularly here where there is no other means to discover this information and where the stakes are so very high and due(sic) indeed include indefinite detention, is fundamentally unjust, outrageous, and will not be tolerated. Fortunately, Dr. Batarfi’s counsel have been diligent and tireless in their efforts, but no one, Dr. Batarfi and not this Court, should have to rely on luck to discover evidence critical to a just resolution<br />
…<br />
In the face of repeated failures to comply with this Court’s orders, to produce exculpatory evidence, even after orders to show cause and the requirement of no fewer than four declarations from officials at the highest levels of our government, how can this Court have any confidence whatsoever in the United States government to comply with its obligations and to be truthful to the Court?<br />
…<br />
THE COURT: And he’s sick too. The man’s sick, right? Everyone agrees he ought to be in the hospital, he ought not behind bars. He ought to be in a hospital getting treatment. This is barbaric treatment of this man without any regard to his rights whatsoever and I’m not going to be a part of it.<br />
…<br />
[Gov] …I think, though, to give the process a fair shake, it’s only been two days.<br />
THE COURT: Fairness? You’re talking about fairness? This man’s been in jail for seven years and the government now says it’s time to look at fairness?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hope this isn’t too late for you to pick it up.</p>
<p>Thanks for adding all the information you have in this thread.  EW has such good posts and gets them out so quickly that they attract additional info in the comments like a huge magnet.</p>
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		<title>By: pmorlan</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167115</link>
		<dc:creator>pmorlan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/19/ibn-sheikh-al-libi-ids-others/#comment-167115</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, it was the Reprieve report. Thanks for the update and thank you for the new information on Diego Garcia.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it was the Reprieve report. Thanks for the update and thank you for the new information on Diego Garcia.</p>
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