Comments on: Illegal Wiretapping … Still; Bill Clinton’s Email Accessed

By: Palli

Palli — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:30:39 +0000

Certaunly legal permission from the FISA court could be received for wiretapping Cheeney…but then the Cheney leftovers would know.

By: Civlibertarian

Civlibertarian — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:55:48 +0000

Great comment. As you say, rather than purging inadvertently collected material from the database, the pathetic “minimization” consists of weak after the fact controls on access to the stuff stored permanently in the database.

Furthermore, the underlying assumption is that plotters will use email to communicate. Since it doesn’t take much sophistication to figure out other ways to communicate on the Internet, this program is only useful for catching the dumbest, most clueless threats, and snooping on people. Mainly snooping on people.

Various government agencies have been eager to snoop on people’s email going back more than 10 years (see Carnivore (software) in Wikipedia and Carnivore Details Emerge, SecurityFocus 2000-10-04 on history going back to 1997).

The Electronic Frontier Foundation has been tracking these issues since it was formed in 1990. Its founders were prescient; they knew what was coming.

By: Civlibertarian

Civlibertarian — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:41:52 +0000

Seems that everyone has wanted to eavesdrop on Bill!

A couple of old links from Accuracy In Media:

Did The Chinese Tap Clinton’s Phones? October 7, 1998
Did The FBI Tap Clinton’s Phones? October 20, 1998

By: JohnnyTable70

JohnnyTable70 — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:40:34 +0000

EW: It is ironic but not unexpected IMO that Bill Clinton’s e-mail was accessed by the NSA. Back when the Republicans and chief moralizer Ken Starr tried to have WJC impeached for a consensual — albeit inappropriate — BJ, they ran roughshod over the Constitution. My concern then, which appears to have been justified, was that if a Special Prosecutor was willing to spend around $50 million to learn about the President’s sexual predilections, than it could easily happen to someone considerably less powerful than WJC like you or I.

By: bmaz

bmaz — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:47:40 +0000

Unfortunately, probably pretty slim now that he doesn’t wear the pants in the family.

On the bright side, I am fairly certain Vaughn Walker is an avid reader of Lichtblau and Risen.

By: ApacheTrout

ApacheTrout — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:10:34 +0000

Three anonymous current intelligence officials…. Working alone, or together? Either way, that is quite remarkable and could represent a significant breach in the dike.

It also makes me think of Arlo, his friend Alice, and her restaurant:

you know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he’s really sick and they won’t take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they’re both faggots and they won’t take either of them. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in singin a bar of Alice’s Restaurant and walking out. They may think it’s an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice’s Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may thinks it’s a movement.

By: emptywheel

emptywheel — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:47:16 +0000

Yeah, that’s a bit I didn’t include for fair use reasons. 8/10 is pretty damn big to be claiming this is accidental.

I do think they’ve gotten new sources, particularly that analyst. Though I’m not sure these guys had worked with the analysts who James Bamford worked with in his most recent book.

In any case, that’s sort of what I meant by the willingness of people like Holt to discuss this openly.

In plenty of time for EFF to tweak its telecom suit to sue for post January 2007 wiretapping, too.

By: emptywheel

emptywheel — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:44:24 +0000

So what are the chances that Bill would be willing to sue?

By: Stephen

Stephen — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 10:28:29 +0000

Which begs a question. If this wiretapping is all for the good of the nation and our security according to all the devil’s apprentices, are we listening to Cheney, Rove, etc., etc.?

By: ApacheTrout

ApacheTrout — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:01:16 +0000

This also captured my attention:

The N.S.A. is believed to have gone beyond legal boundaries designed to protect Americans in about 8 to 10 separate court orders issued by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, according to three intelligence officials who spoke anonymously because disclosing such information is illegal.

Have there been this many whistleblowers previously? Would these be represent new sources for Risen and Lichtblau? Also, I presume that these officials are still in their positions, as they are not described as “former intelligence officials” or some variant.