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	<title>Comments on: The May 10, 2005 Opinions Were Retrospective</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/</link>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-163993</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 19:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Which law is it that says we are not supposed to ship prisoners off to countries that are known to torture?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which law is it that says we are not supposed to ship prisoners off to countries that are known to torture?</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-163884</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 04:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh, nice call on the missing email archive…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, nice call on the missing email archive…</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-163880</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 03:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/#comment-163880</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;But haven’t we previously read that Comey and others at DoJ were really wary around this period of time — they believed that their phones were tapped (and it wouldn’t be surprising), and they were very guarded even when speaking inside the walls of DoJ?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also, recall that Comey was really alarmed when Frances Frago Townsend — supposedly the ‘Counterterrorism Chief’ — did not recognize the codename of a supposed-counterterrorism program?!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Comey would have been an idiot not to ‘cover his butt’ ten kinds of sidewise.&lt;br /&gt;
Since I don’t think there’s any basis for supposing him ‘an idiot’, it’s only reasonable to suppose that many of his communications were produced in an environment where he was trying to figure out WTF was going on — at least, when he wasn’t showing up at John Ashcroft’s beside to fend off Abu Gonzo and Andrew Card.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;All of which, FWIW, makes me really, really suspicious about the motives behind someone setting up Comey as some kind of ‘fall guy’ to make the OLC report seem somehow ‘less shocking’.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As I read this, it really underscores what Comey was up against — and whatever it was sure wants that OLC Report to be misunderstood, ignored, scorned, etc, etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Which begs the next question: will BabyDick be on teevee only twice each day next week, or will she be on four times each day getting out in front of this OLC Report?  And is there going to be a betting pool for the Number of Times Gonzo Goes on Teevee?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;FWIW, according to EW’s Missing WH Emails Timeline, May 21, 22, 23 2005 there is no archive of OVP emails.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Which just makes this whole ‘make Comey look bad’ business all the more suspicious, IHVHO.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But haven’t we previously read that Comey and others at DoJ were really wary around this period of time — they believed that their phones were tapped (and it wouldn’t be surprising), and they were very guarded even when speaking inside the walls of DoJ?</p>
<p>Also, recall that Comey was really alarmed when Frances Frago Townsend — supposedly the ‘Counterterrorism Chief’ — did not recognize the codename of a supposed-counterterrorism program?!</p>
<p>Comey would have been an idiot not to ‘cover his butt’ ten kinds of sidewise.<br />
Since I don’t think there’s any basis for supposing him ‘an idiot’, it’s only reasonable to suppose that many of his communications were produced in an environment where he was trying to figure out WTF was going on — at least, when he wasn’t showing up at John Ashcroft’s beside to fend off Abu Gonzo and Andrew Card.</p>
<p>All of which, FWIW, makes me really, really suspicious about the motives behind someone setting up Comey as some kind of ‘fall guy’ to make the OLC report seem somehow ‘less shocking’.</p>
<p>As I read this, it really underscores what Comey was up against — and whatever it was sure wants that OLC Report to be misunderstood, ignored, scorned, etc, etc.</p>
<p>Which begs the next question: will BabyDick be on teevee only twice each day next week, or will she be on four times each day getting out in front of this OLC Report?  And is there going to be a betting pool for the Number of Times Gonzo Goes on Teevee?  </p>
<p>FWIW, according to EW’s Missing WH Emails Timeline, May 21, 22, 23 2005 there is no archive of OVP emails.  </p>
<p>Which just makes this whole ‘make Comey look bad’ business all the more suspicious, IHVHO.</p>
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		<title>By: Jkat</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-163846</link>
		<dc:creator>Jkat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 00:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/#comment-163846</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;oh geeze mr/mz moderator .. what you struck wasn’t a reference to violence .. let  me tell you what’s violent: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;this collection of bushco sad-sacks who implemented a program which led to over a hundred prisoners-in-our-charge to be interrogated-to-death .. beaten to bloody pulps .. now ..that’s violence .. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i’m a medically retired marine warrant officer .. i take the geneva accords very seriously .. i actually believe in the now-quaint concept of our nation’s “sacred honor” .. and our obligation to treat prisoners in our charge humanely ..and our obligation to pursue charges against those who have grossly broken our laws .. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and .. hey .. what these asshats have done really fries me .. i can’t think of a form of punishment which wouldn’t be appropriate .. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;after investigation and conviction.. of course …&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh geeze mr/mz moderator .. what you struck wasn’t a reference to violence .. let  me tell you what’s violent: </p>
<p>this collection of bushco sad-sacks who implemented a program which led to over a hundred prisoners-in-our-charge to be interrogated-to-death .. beaten to bloody pulps .. now ..that’s violence .. </p>
<p>i’m a medically retired marine warrant officer .. i take the geneva accords very seriously .. i actually believe in the now-quaint concept of our nation’s “sacred honor” .. and our obligation to treat prisoners in our charge humanely ..and our obligation to pursue charges against those who have grossly broken our laws .. </p>
<p>and .. hey .. what these asshats have done really fries me .. i can’t think of a form of punishment which wouldn’t be appropriate .. </p>
<p>after investigation and conviction.. of course …</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Kaye</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-163839</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Kaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 23:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/#comment-163839</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hallucinations due to sleep deprivation are a well-recognized phenomena. The Army Combat Stress Field Manual discusses it, for instance. I doubt it came from empirical evidence re torture of Ghul (even if Ghul did experience same). Even the inept and dishonest authors of the OLC torture memos should have known about such hallucinations.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ghul likely is either dead, as speculated here, or in a foreign prison, which was al-Libi’s fate, until discovered just before his death (or murder, or suicide).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hallucinations due to sleep deprivation are a well-recognized phenomena. The Army Combat Stress Field Manual discusses it, for instance. I doubt it came from empirical evidence re torture of Ghul (even if Ghul did experience same). Even the inept and dishonest authors of the OLC torture memos should have known about such hallucinations.</p>
<p>Ghul likely is either dead, as speculated here, or in a foreign prison, which was al-Libi’s fate, until discovered just before his death (or murder, or suicide).</p>
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		<title>By: Jkat</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-163792</link>
		<dc:creator>Jkat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 21:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/#comment-163792</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;and dammit .. y’all are doing one hell of job dissecting this story .. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;ya knows what ?? i used to read the NYTimes religiously .. back when it was a liberal  rag .. but after the judy..judy..judy and gordon debacles on WMd’s and plame .. i quit buying it .. and today ..some years later .. i wouldn’t put a copy of it in the outhouse for folks to wipe their ass with .. the old grey lady has been turned into a chancre riddled whore .. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;we need to prosecute these bushco bastards .. this can’t be allowed to stand unanswered .. obama be damned ..&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[mention of violence removed]&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and dammit .. y’all are doing one hell of job dissecting this story .. </p>
<p>ya knows what ?? i used to read the NYTimes religiously .. back when it was a liberal  rag .. but after the judy..judy..judy and gordon debacles on WMd’s and plame .. i quit buying it .. and today ..some years later .. i wouldn’t put a copy of it in the outhouse for folks to wipe their ass with .. the old grey lady has been turned into a chancre riddled whore .. </p>
<p>we need to prosecute these bushco bastards .. this can’t be allowed to stand unanswered .. obama be damned ..</p>
<p>[mention of violence removed]</p>
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		<title>By: Jkat</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-163782</link>
		<dc:creator>Jkat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 21:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/#comment-163782</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;the more this unwinds .. the more obvious it becomes the bush administration was just a collection of cheap two-bit thugs ..&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the more this unwinds .. the more obvious it becomes the bush administration was just a collection of cheap two-bit thugs ..</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-163774</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 20:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Mary, I carried the “fuck Comey” flag while you were away.  You do it with such elegance though.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Better question, Can The Bird do the distance today???&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary, I carried the “fuck Comey” flag while you were away.  You do it with such elegance though.</p>
<p>Better question, Can The Bird do the distance today???</p>
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		<title>By: WilliamOckham</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-163773</link>
		<dc:creator>WilliamOckham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 20:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/#comment-163773</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;By the way, there’s is at least one report on what happened to Hassan Ghul:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;According to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cageprisoners.com/downloads/RangziebAhmed.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rangzieb Ahmed&lt;/a&gt;, a British national of Pakistani origin, Ghul was in a Pakistani prison in 2006, but disappeared in January 2007.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Hassan Ghul - he was captured in Iraq in 2004 and he was in the cell left to me. I talked to him when no guards were around me and he told me that the CIA kept him in a secret location for 2 years. After 2 ½ years they handed him to the Pakistan authorities. I believe he was a Pakistani national. He was there when I arrived and he was moved in January 2007.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, there’s is at least one report on what happened to Hassan Ghul:</p>
<p>According to <a href="http://www.cageprisoners.com/downloads/RangziebAhmed.pdf" rel="nofollow">Rangzieb Ahmed</a>, a British national of Pakistani origin, Ghul was in a Pakistani prison in 2006, but disappeared in January 2007.</p>
<blockquote><p>Hassan Ghul &#8211; he was captured in Iraq in 2004 and he was in the cell left to me. I talked to him when no guards were around me and he told me that the CIA kept him in a secret location for 2 years. After 2 ½ years they handed him to the Pakistan authorities. I believe he was a Pakistani national. He was there when I arrived and he was moved in January 2007.</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: fatster</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/comment-page-1/#comment-163772</link>
		<dc:creator>fatster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/the-may-10-2005-opinions-were-retrospective/#comment-163772</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;E. Holder answers questions regarding closure of Gitmo, investigation of officials who authorized “interrogation techniques” and blocking the release of those photos.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.essence.com/news_entertainment/news/articles/attorney_general_holder_interview?Page=2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.essence.com/news_en.....iew?Page=2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>E. Holder answers questions regarding closure of Gitmo, investigation of officials who authorized “interrogation techniques” and blocking the release of those photos.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.essence.com/news_entertainment/news/articles/attorney_general_holder_interview?Page=2" rel="nofollow">http://www.essence.com/news_en&#8230;..iew?Page=2</a></p>
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