<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Nadler and State Secrets</title>
	<atom:link href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2011 20:48:32 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: johnhkennedy</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-163215</link>
		<dc:creator>johnhkennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-163215</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Hooray for Nadler&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;He needs our support now&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;SIGN THE PETITION&lt;/strong&gt; To Prosecute the Bush Torturers&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Over 250,000 have signed&lt;br /&gt;
Join them and call yourself a Patriot&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Hooray for Nadler</strong></p>
<p><strong>He needs our support now</strong></p>
<p>and </p>
<p><strong>SIGN THE PETITION</strong> To Prosecute the Bush Torturers</p>
<p><a href="http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG" rel="nofollow">http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG</a></p>
<p>Over 250,000 have signed<br />
Join them and call yourself a Patriot</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Veritas78</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-163078</link>
		<dc:creator>Veritas78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-163078</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A simple solution would be to put a price on the government’s decision to invoke state secrets: an immediate default judgement for the plaintiff. “Okay, you can decline to offer a defense, but then the plaintiff wins.” Then the government would have to decide whether keeping something secret was worth it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A simple solution would be to put a price on the government’s decision to invoke state secrets: an immediate default judgement for the plaintiff. “Okay, you can decline to offer a defense, but then the plaintiff wins.” Then the government would have to decide whether keeping something secret was worth it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: alank</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162998</link>
		<dc:creator>alank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162998</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It seems to me that at some point — at the end of the day — one runs up against the government’s assertion of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sovereign immunity&lt;/a&gt; — that the state (or sovereign) can do no wrong — upheld in courts with two narrowly defined exceptions.  Generally speaking, by this mechanism adopted from English law the government reserves the right to decide when it will be prosecuted as result of some egregious act carried out by one of its agents in conflict with the boundaries set out by the Constitution.  It’s very open-ended, it seems.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that at some point — at the end of the day — one runs up against the government’s assertion of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity" rel="nofollow">sovereign immunity</a> — that the state (or sovereign) can do no wrong — upheld in courts with two narrowly defined exceptions.  Generally speaking, by this mechanism adopted from English law the government reserves the right to decide when it will be prosecuted as result of some egregious act carried out by one of its agents in conflict with the boundaries set out by the Constitution.  It’s very open-ended, it seems.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162992</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162992</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I very nearly said that on the panel yesterday (though I was thinking 535, cause we could use a few more guys like him in the Senate, too)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I wish you would&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it is long past time we raised a HOWL against the cowards in Congress&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;some of y’all enjoy representation from admirable people&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I got a cowardly shit for a congresscritter&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;he don’t even have the balls to embrace the bluedogs that he parrots&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Congress needs to lead, they ain’t paid to follow, or they need to get the fuck out of the way&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;we’re upholding our Constitution&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;if that’s an inconvenience for our congresscritters, they should be dealt with appropriately&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I believe a part of title 18 of the US Code deals with malfeasance&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;let’s put in action&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I very nearly said that on the panel yesterday (though I was thinking 535, cause we could use a few more guys like him in the Senate, too)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I wish you would</p>
<p>it is long past time we raised a HOWL against the cowards in Congress</p>
<p>some of y’all enjoy representation from admirable people</p>
<p>I got a cowardly shit for a congresscritter</p>
<p>he don’t even have the balls to embrace the bluedogs that he parrots</p>
<p>Congress needs to lead, they ain’t paid to follow, or they need to get the fuck out of the way</p>
<p>we’re upholding our Constitution</p>
<p>if that’s an inconvenience for our congresscritters, they should be dealt with appropriately</p>
<p>I believe a part of title 18 of the US Code deals with malfeasance</p>
<p>let’s put in action</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162985</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162985</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In a dialogue with Mary and bmaz on &lt;em&gt;Reynolds&lt;/em&gt; as case law on SS  Privilege yesterday, I mentioned that it stinks that the files in &lt;em&gt;Reynolds&lt;/em&gt; were eventually declassified and showed the Government lied and that it stinks even more, after history revealed “that lie” that &lt;em&gt;Reynolds&lt;/em&gt; can still stand as case law on SS Privilege.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Then Mary wrote:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
The case as a case stands for what it stands for, so a District Court in particular would have a hard time saying that its holdings can be ignored. But this is why facts are so important (the issue I kept raising with the OLC opinions prior to the releases of the Bybee Torture II and the Bradbury memos - reliance opinions have to have facts) to case law. Certainly, what the facts have demonstrated is that the Executive branch lied to the Judicial branch. The highest level of gov officers swore out false affidavits, they bore false witness. So I do think that the court might be justified, based on the factual components that have since been revealed, in asking for more from the Exec.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In particular, though, I’d love sit through some oral argument on State’s secrets were DOJ gets asked about Reynold’s - do you still stand by it as a state secret? If so, why? If that is your version of a “state secret” at DOJ, is that reasonable and if you are not reasonable should you receive any deference at all? If you concede now that it was not a state secret and that the Executive branch lied to the Judicial branch - how many bites of that apple should the Exec get?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a dialogue with Mary and bmaz on <em>Reynolds</em> as case law on SS  Privilege yesterday, I mentioned that it stinks that the files in <em>Reynolds</em> were eventually declassified and showed the Government lied and that it stinks even more, after history revealed “that lie” that <em>Reynolds</em> can still stand as case law on SS Privilege.</p>
<p>Then Mary wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>
The case as a case stands for what it stands for, so a District Court in particular would have a hard time saying that its holdings can be ignored. But this is why facts are so important (the issue I kept raising with the OLC opinions prior to the releases of the Bybee Torture II and the Bradbury memos &#8211; reliance opinions have to have facts) to case law. Certainly, what the facts have demonstrated is that the Executive branch lied to the Judicial branch. The highest level of gov officers swore out false affidavits, they bore false witness. So I do think that the court might be justified, based on the factual components that have since been revealed, in asking for more from the Exec.</p>
<p>In particular, though, I’d love sit through some oral argument on State’s secrets were DOJ gets asked about Reynold’s &#8211; do you still stand by it as a state secret? If so, why? If that is your version of a “state secret” at DOJ, is that reasonable and if you are not reasonable should you receive any deference at all? If you concede now that it was not a state secret and that the Executive branch lied to the Judicial branch &#8211; how many bites of that apple should the Exec get?</p>
</blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162982</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162982</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I very nearly said that on the panel yesterday (though I was thinking 535, cause we could use a few more guys like him in the Senate, too).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I very nearly said that on the panel yesterday (though I was thinking 535, cause we could use a few more guys like him in the Senate, too).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: behindthefall</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162981</link>
		<dc:creator>behindthefall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162981</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;O/T:  NYT’s price jumped to $2 today.  This follows some kind of pnint-media retreat?  See if other papers also raise their prices now.  Would that be price-fixing?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O/T:  NYT’s price jumped to $2 today.  This follows some kind of pnint-media retreat?  See if other papers also raise their prices now.  Would that be price-fixing?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162978</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162978</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;we need to do more to make the individuals who implemented these policies personally responsible.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;prosecute them&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the Constitution offers no protection for acts outside the law&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;if it ain’t legal, then the government’s protective powers are not applicable&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the law is very clear.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;illegal contracts are not enforcable&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;illegal acts are not a part of any official government duties&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;detain em, try em, an punish them&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;we could start by enforcing the law that makes it a crime to use classification or national securith to commit a crime or prevent political embarrasment&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;using the national security laws for either of those purposes is a crime&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;classifying information, or declassifying information, for criminal purposes or other personal considerations, is a violation of the US Code&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;plain an simple&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;do I gotta look up chapter an verse ???&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>we need to do more to make the individuals who implemented these policies personally responsible.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>prosecute them</p>
<p>the Constitution offers no protection for acts outside the law</p>
<p>if it ain’t legal, then the government’s protective powers are not applicable</p>
<p>the law is very clear.</p>
<p>illegal contracts are not enforcable</p>
<p>illegal acts are not a part of any official government duties</p>
<p>detain em, try em, an punish them</p>
<p>we could start by enforcing the law that makes it a crime to use classification or national securith to commit a crime or prevent political embarrasment</p>
<p>using the national security laws for either of those purposes is a crime</p>
<p>classifying information, or declassifying information, for criminal purposes or other personal considerations, is a violation of the US Code</p>
<p>plain an simple</p>
<p>do I gotta look up chapter an verse ???</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162977</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162977</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Excellent point, WO! The “Government” cannot be allowed sole discretion over whether to grant security clearance. If it wants to withhold granting such clearances, it should be made to show cause why the party in question is a risk, and the *court,* not the government, should decide.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent point, WO! The “Government” cannot be allowed sole discretion over whether to grant security clearance. If it wants to withhold granting such clearances, it should be made to show cause why the party in question is a risk, and the *court,* not the government, should decide.</p>
<p>Bob in HI</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sid58</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162973</link>
		<dc:creator>Sid58</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:15:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/nadler-and-state-secrets/#comment-162973</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I recall that warrantless wiretapping needed reauthorization every 45 days (that visit to Ashcroft’s hospital bed dust-up).  Is it being reauthorized; if so, by whom?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recall that warrantless wiretapping needed reauthorization every 45 days (that visit to Ashcroft’s hospital bed dust-up).  Is it being reauthorized; if so, by whom?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Dynamic page generated in 0.309 seconds. -->
<!-- Cached page generated by WP-Super-Cache on 2012-02-17 08:41:16 -->

