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	<title>Comments on: Cheney &#8216;Fesses Up that Rapport, Not Torture, Got Intelligence</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/</link>
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		<title>By: RIRedinPA</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-163097</link>
		<dc:creator>RIRedinPA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/#comment-163097</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The delicious irony here is that Cheney seems to be falling victim to what the professional interrogators have been doing in intelligence and police organizations for years. Let the bad guys talk. And talk. And talk. While you keep track of their statements and the known facts. They’ll start off lying but eventually their stories become too convoluted and they make mistakes or change statements or dates or something and it all begins to unravel. No torture needed, Cheney will talk himself into a prison cell. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course for this to work it takes a tough interrogator/investigator, someone not intimidated by the bad guy, someone willing to call them when they twist and turn their stories. We’ve lacked that for the past eight years and it is only now,  once the bad guy is no longer powerful, are people like Matthews and others in the MSM willing to question him. The damage has already been done though. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But at least the spotlight has been turned on him. So let him keep talking. Eventually, like some petty criminal in a Bogart film, in a dank interrogation room filled with cigarette smoke, under the swinging overhead light he’ll break. I don’t think it’ll be some tearful mea culpa but more like Nixon’s outburst of anger at David Frost, with a famous ‘if the President does it, it isn’t illegal’ type line. And the whole charade will come tumbling down. Little benefit to the tens of thousands of dead Iraqis, the thousands of dead military members and their families, the trampled Constitution and America’s reputation but it’ll be something.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The delicious irony here is that Cheney seems to be falling victim to what the professional interrogators have been doing in intelligence and police organizations for years. Let the bad guys talk. And talk. And talk. While you keep track of their statements and the known facts. They’ll start off lying but eventually their stories become too convoluted and they make mistakes or change statements or dates or something and it all begins to unravel. No torture needed, Cheney will talk himself into a prison cell. </p>
<p>Of course for this to work it takes a tough interrogator/investigator, someone not intimidated by the bad guy, someone willing to call them when they twist and turn their stories. We’ve lacked that for the past eight years and it is only now,  once the bad guy is no longer powerful, are people like Matthews and others in the MSM willing to question him. The damage has already been done though. </p>
<p>But at least the spotlight has been turned on him. So let him keep talking. Eventually, like some petty criminal in a Bogart film, in a dank interrogation room filled with cigarette smoke, under the swinging overhead light he’ll break. I don’t think it’ll be some tearful mea culpa but more like Nixon’s outburst of anger at David Frost, with a famous ‘if the President does it, it isn’t illegal’ type line. And the whole charade will come tumbling down. Little benefit to the tens of thousands of dead Iraqis, the thousands of dead military members and their families, the trampled Constitution and America’s reputation but it’ll be something.</p>
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		<title>By: prostratedragon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-163092</link>
		<dc:creator>prostratedragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 06:41:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;If, like me, you have trouble playing vid at the MSNBC site, &lt;a href=&quot;www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMGYw4rfs7M&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;have a youtube&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If, like me, you have trouble playing vid at the MSNBC site, <a href="www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMGYw4rfs7M" rel="nofollow">have a youtube</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-163073</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/#comment-163073</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Of interest to many here: one of&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/31071187#31071302&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Tweety (MSNBC’s Chris Matthews)&lt;/a&gt; finest hours today, interviewing McClatchy’s Jonathan Landay and Warren Strobel in a Big Picture overview contrasting what Cheney is saying now — as if he’s the CIA’s biggest supporter and best friend — with his statements in 2002, 2003, as well as facts provided in reports from Congress and the Defense Dept.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The McClatchy reporters focus completely on facts, *and* Tweety does not interrupt them (until the last seconds of the 9:20 interview).  He lets them speak, and wow do these men present fact, after fact, after fact.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There are obviously some who won’t want to hear what they say, but this is what media should be — fact, after fact, after fact (citing source, after source, after source).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Wow.&lt;br /&gt;
The power of level-headed people presenting fact, after fact, after fact is something we’ve seen too little of for a very long time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Tweety finally hits one out of the ball park — these &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/68643.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;McClatchy reporter&lt;/a&gt;s have a ton of facts at the tip of their tongues.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Very heartening interview.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of interest to many here: one of<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/31071187#31071302" rel="nofollow"> Tweety (MSNBC’s Chris Matthews)</a> finest hours today, interviewing McClatchy’s Jonathan Landay and Warren Strobel in a Big Picture overview contrasting what Cheney is saying now — as if he’s the CIA’s biggest supporter and best friend — with his statements in 2002, 2003, as well as facts provided in reports from Congress and the Defense Dept.</p>
<p>The McClatchy reporters focus completely on facts, *and* Tweety does not interrupt them (until the last seconds of the 9:20 interview).  He lets them speak, and wow do these men present fact, after fact, after fact.</p>
<p>There are obviously some who won’t want to hear what they say, but this is what media should be — fact, after fact, after fact (citing source, after source, after source).</p>
<p>Wow.<br />
The power of level-headed people presenting fact, after fact, after fact is something we’ve seen too little of for a very long time.</p>
<p>Tweety finally hits one out of the ball park — these <a href="http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/68643.html" rel="nofollow">McClatchy reporter</a>s have a ton of facts at the tip of their tongues.  </p>
<p>Very heartening interview.</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-163019</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/#comment-163019</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Did you see this one?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Cheney takes jab at Richard Clarke&lt;br /&gt;
By David Monday Jun 01, 2009 7:00pm&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/cheney-takes-jab-richard-clarke&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://videocafe.crooksandliar.....ard-clarke&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you see this one?</p>
<p>Cheney takes jab at Richard Clarke<br />
By David Monday Jun 01, 2009 7:00pm</p>
<p><a href="http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/cheney-takes-jab-richard-clarke" rel="nofollow">http://videocafe.crooksandliar&#8230;..ard-clarke</a></p>
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		<title>By: AlchemyToday</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-162997</link>
		<dc:creator>AlchemyToday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 19:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/#comment-162997</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What are the odds that the document(s) Cheney wants declassified are just official restatements of the story that Cheney, Hayden, et al are relying on to justify torture: Zubaydah’s torture got us KSM which … stopped the LA attacks?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Occam’s razor says that if there were anything else there, it would’ve been leaked by now.  It seems clear that this is the only “success” story that Cheney has to hang his hat on.  And while he never directly linked Saddam to 9/11, he certainly has said that there were multiple attacks thwarted that we never found out about because they were classified… I seriously doubt that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What are the odds that the document(s) Cheney wants declassified are just official restatements of the story that Cheney, Hayden, et al are relying on to justify torture: Zubaydah’s torture got us KSM which … stopped the LA attacks?</p>
<p>Occam’s razor says that if there were anything else there, it would’ve been leaked by now.  It seems clear that this is the only “success” story that Cheney has to hang his hat on.  And while he never directly linked Saddam to 9/11, he certainly has said that there were multiple attacks thwarted that we never found out about because they were classified… I seriously doubt that.</p>
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		<title>By: Styve</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-162990</link>
		<dc:creator>Styve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;nevermind…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nevermind…</p>
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		<title>By: subliminalkid</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-162989</link>
		<dc:creator>subliminalkid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/#comment-162989</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t think he is backtracking. He is used to not having his bluff called, and yes he is master at parsing words and subtly creating non-existent links. At this moment he has to fight back as hard as possible and the first thing to do is attack the message and the messenger. First it was “We don’t torture” - now it’s “We only torture under certain circumstances, but we get results.” When and if the smoking gun comes out he then counter it with the 9-11 mind-state made us want to do everything to protect. “We tortured, we thought it was legal, and it HELPED to get results.” He was also parsing his words the other day on the Iraq invasions. He kept stating that&lt;br /&gt;
“I believe” - which one could translate as “I know it is not true, but you can’t really call me a liar.” Thats all he ever does, because just about everything they did was subterfuge by stealth action.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t think he is backtracking. He is used to not having his bluff called, and yes he is master at parsing words and subtly creating non-existent links. At this moment he has to fight back as hard as possible and the first thing to do is attack the message and the messenger. First it was “We don’t torture” &#8211; now it’s “We only torture under certain circumstances, but we get results.” When and if the smoking gun comes out he then counter it with the 9-11 mind-state made us want to do everything to protect. “We tortured, we thought it was legal, and it HELPED to get results.” He was also parsing his words the other day on the Iraq invasions. He kept stating that<br />
“I believe” &#8211; which one could translate as “I know it is not true, but you can’t really call me a liar.” Thats all he ever does, because just about everything they did was subterfuge by stealth action.</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-162984</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I choose option 6, all of the above&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t think there is any mutual exclusion in there&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;dick is filling his diapers at an alarming rate&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think Alcoholics Autonomous calls something like this “A Moment Of Clarity”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;accountability an cowardice don’t mix&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I choose option 6, all of the above</p>
<p>I don’t think there is any mutual exclusion in there</p>
<p>dick is filling his diapers at an alarming rate</p>
<p>I think Alcoholics Autonomous calls something like this “A Moment Of Clarity”</p>
<p>accountability an cowardice don’t mix</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-162979</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/#comment-162979</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt; I’m just curious why Cheney is backtracking on his big claims now.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yeah, that was my first reaction as well.&lt;br /&gt;
What’s up?&lt;br /&gt;
Why now?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Something seems weird.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> I’m just curious why Cheney is backtracking on his big claims now.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yeah, that was my first reaction as well.<br />
What’s up?<br />
Why now?</p>
<p>Something seems weird.</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/02/cheney-fesses-up-that-rapport-not-torture-got-intelligence/comment-page-1/#comment-162976</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;figures&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sargent missed the real story here&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I ain’t got a link yet, but here’s the headline:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;2018 Winter Olympics awarded to Hell&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Recent snowfall ensures plenty of snowballs&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;sargent missed the story about the flying pigs too&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;fookin journalists&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(wink)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>figures</p>
<p>Sargent missed the real story here</p>
<p>I ain’t got a link yet, but here’s the headline:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>2018 Winter Olympics awarded to Hell</strong></p>
<p><em><strong>Recent snowfall ensures plenty of snowballs</strong></em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>sargent missed the story about the flying pigs too</p>
<p>fookin journalists</p>
<p>(wink)</p>
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