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	<title>Comments on: Bye Bye American Pie</title>
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		<title>By: PierceNichols</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163413</link>
		<dc:creator>PierceNichols</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I didn’t forget Claybrook so much as leave her out of an already over-long response. Their heirs have continued to push the curb weight of new cars up, eating most of the efficiency gains on the engine side.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And as for the early 911s, lift-off oversteer FTL! I’ve driven on in simulation, and that was scary enough.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn’t forget Claybrook so much as leave her out of an already over-long response. Their heirs have continued to push the curb weight of new cars up, eating most of the efficiency gains on the engine side.</p>
<p>And as for the early 911s, lift-off oversteer FTL! I’ve driven on in simulation, and that was scary enough.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163218</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Pretty much agreed about Nader here, but please don’t forget his partner witch in crime, Joan Claybrook.  They have created a lot of destructive hell in the American car business, and have a very significant role in the decision to stay with large unsophisticated iron too long.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As to your point about the Corvair, compare and contrast with the early Porsche 356 and 911.  Nader was full of shit.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretty much agreed about Nader here, but please don’t forget his partner witch in crime, Joan Claybrook.  They have created a lot of destructive hell in the American car business, and have a very significant role in the decision to stay with large unsophisticated iron too long.</p>
<p>As to your point about the Corvair, compare and contrast with the early Porsche 356 and 911.  Nader was full of shit.</p>
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		<title>By: PierceNichols</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163216</link>
		<dc:creator>PierceNichols</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163216</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Nader does not know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to cars. I lost all respect for Nader the first time I actually had the opportunity to drove a Corvair. The Corvair was GM’s answer to the VW Bug… and was in most ways a better car. It was more reliable and handled better than not only the Bug but the majority of American cars of the same vintage (still awful by modern standards, but hardly unsafe in context). It did have two features that made it distinctly different in handling from many contemporaries — rear weight distribution and independent suspension. The rear weight distribution was a vice, but that did not distinguish it particularly from contemporary rear-engined vehicles. It was certainly less of a vice than the awful brakes typical of most American cars of that vintage. The suspension was a major advance in automotive technology.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nader’s efforts to improve auto safety have betrayed a complete lack of knowledge of cars and a condescending attitude towards those who drive them. For instance, his push for mandatory airbags resulted in airbags being widely deployed before they were technologically mature, causing hundreds if not thousands of deaths. This was because he did not believe that the US driving public could be convinced to use seatbelts. US seat belt usage rates hit 83% nationwide last year according to the NHTSA, with Michigan hitting 97.3% and American Samoa bringing up the rear at 55.7%. The fight for airbags drained political capital and cash that could have been used for more effective safety measures, such as mandating four-wheel ABS disk brakes or improved driver training.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nader does not know his ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to cars. I lost all respect for Nader the first time I actually had the opportunity to drove a Corvair. The Corvair was GM’s answer to the VW Bug… and was in most ways a better car. It was more reliable and handled better than not only the Bug but the majority of American cars of the same vintage (still awful by modern standards, but hardly unsafe in context). It did have two features that made it distinctly different in handling from many contemporaries — rear weight distribution and independent suspension. The rear weight distribution was a vice, but that did not distinguish it particularly from contemporary rear-engined vehicles. It was certainly less of a vice than the awful brakes typical of most American cars of that vintage. The suspension was a major advance in automotive technology.</p>
<p>Nader’s efforts to improve auto safety have betrayed a complete lack of knowledge of cars and a condescending attitude towards those who drive them. For instance, his push for mandatory airbags resulted in airbags being widely deployed before they were technologically mature, causing hundreds if not thousands of deaths. This was because he did not believe that the US driving public could be convinced to use seatbelts. US seat belt usage rates hit 83% nationwide last year according to the NHTSA, with Michigan hitting 97.3% and American Samoa bringing up the rear at 55.7%. The fight for airbags drained political capital and cash that could have been used for more effective safety measures, such as mandating four-wheel ABS disk brakes or improved driver training.</p>
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		<title>By: parsec</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163127</link>
		<dc:creator>parsec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Don’t know if it portends anything but the last time I rented a Chevy I had to use the button on the key ring to open the trunk.  Not even the owners manual could tell me where the trunk release was.  I never did find it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don’t know if it portends anything but the last time I rented a Chevy I had to use the button on the key ring to open the trunk.  Not even the owners manual could tell me where the trunk release was.  I never did find it.</p>
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		<title>By: ekunin</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163100</link>
		<dc:creator>ekunin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163100</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hate to be the ant at the picnic, but there is something seriously wrong with a country that uses automobiles for mass transportation or that bails out banks rather than workers. Everything is out of whack and still is.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hate to be the ant at the picnic, but there is something seriously wrong with a country that uses automobiles for mass transportation or that bails out banks rather than workers. Everything is out of whack and still is.</p>
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		<title>By: sunshine</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163093</link>
		<dc:creator>sunshine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 06:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Great post. We had those A &amp; W’s in Mi too.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;About the Corvair, my brothers HS grad gift was a beautiful red Corvair. The first day he had it he took a friend out for a spin in it. He came home with a smashed up car because he rolled it. Lucky he and his friend lived through it. It was a dangerous car.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. We had those A &amp; W’s in Mi too.</p>
<p>About the Corvair, my brothers HS grad gift was a beautiful red Corvair. The first day he had it he took a friend out for a spin in it. He came home with a smashed up car because he rolled it. Lucky he and his friend lived through it. It was a dangerous car.</p>
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		<title>By: albertchampion</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163088</link>
		<dc:creator>albertchampion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163088</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;who killed interurban transport in the usa? GM, Ford, Firestone, Goodyear.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and for what reason? to force the populace to purchase automobiles. and all those replacement parts[tires, etc].&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;who killed the railroads? and promoted eisenhower’s interstate highway system? the system that killed most cities and divided the populace by race and income.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the same entities.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;let us consider the crimes in greater detail. i have written about this previously on this site. as i recall, it wasn’t relished. but i care to reiterate the crimes that were the divestitutes made by GM that resulted in delphi, the divestitures made by ford that resulted in visteon.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;both of these pseudo corp[ses] are now in bankruptcy. why?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;well, rick wagoner and the GM board of directors saw that they could make GM become profitable if it threw-off a number of critical “in-house” operations.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the illustrative story is the AC spark plug operations in flint, mi. the  figures i am going to quote appeared in a wsj article[A18, 31/03/06] entitled SHOWDOWN ON COSTS LOOM AS DELPHI GOES TO COURT. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;suffice it to say, when AC was a part of GM, GM had to bear the average variable cost of a spark plug when it manufactured an engine. reportedly, that was $2.05 in 2006. but, GM required Delphi to sell that same spark plug to it for $1.70. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;so, if the WSJ article is accurate[and as a long-time observer of the automotive industry, i think it is] Delphi took a loss on every spark plug it supplied GM.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and those losses were not confined to spark plugs. virtually every component GM spun-off to Delphi were then sold back to GM at a price lower than the average variable cost.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;in the short term, this allowed the GM board to shout how it had reduced its costs. note who were officers and directors of GM while this fraud was being perpetrated.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and the management of Delphi was hardly a “hands-off” circumstance. JT Battenberg had been an officer and director[?] of GM when he was sent downstream to be the ceo of delphi. he was very conversant with what the bloodletting he was supposed to perform. after all, he had run AC-Delco.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;this story goes undiscussed in the financial air[wsj, ft, cnbc]but the GM board looted the investors in delphi. a grotesque economic crime. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;after the delphi bankruptcy filing, and delphi remains in bankruptcy, many of the divested assets were secretly restored to GM ownership by order of the bankruptcy court. i think that those bankruptcy court decisions reveal that a bandruptcy court judge recognized the fraud of those delphi divestituures. sometime last year, GM had to absorb those average variable costs. such as spark plugs.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;of course, none of this gets covered by the whoreson media.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;after GM pulled this divestiture stunt, ford did the same thing. created an entity known as VISTEON. into which they threw a lot of their parts making entities. and then they forced visteon to sell those parts back to ford at below average variable cost prices.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it should come as no surprise that visteon, like delphi, was finally forced to file for bankruptcy last week.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;so, let us consider this history, now.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;GM delayed its demise by the Delphi deception. but in that process it swindled all the stockholders, bondholders of delphi. do you read where this economic crime is being pursued by any law enforcement agency?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;similarly, the stockholders and bondholders of ford’s delphi facsimile, visteon, have been defrauded. do you know of any law enforcement agency going after ford?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and then we must consider the icons of the purportedly progressives in the usa, the UAW. i must tell you that you must recognize the fact that the UAW was knowledgeable of these scams. and that knowledge should inform you that the UAW was an accomplice to those crimes[in the law, this is known as misprision of a felony].&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;in my view, this history is the stellar incident in contemporary fascism: big labor, big business, big government establishing a totalitarianism that destroys any semblance of the precepts of the constitution, the bill of rights.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>who killed interurban transport in the usa? GM, Ford, Firestone, Goodyear.</p>
<p>and for what reason? to force the populace to purchase automobiles. and all those replacement parts[tires, etc].</p>
<p>who killed the railroads? and promoted eisenhower’s interstate highway system? the system that killed most cities and divided the populace by race and income.</p>
<p>the same entities.</p>
<p>let us consider the crimes in greater detail. i have written about this previously on this site. as i recall, it wasn’t relished. but i care to reiterate the crimes that were the divestitutes made by GM that resulted in delphi, the divestitures made by ford that resulted in visteon.</p>
<p>both of these pseudo corp[ses] are now in bankruptcy. why?</p>
<p>well, rick wagoner and the GM board of directors saw that they could make GM become profitable if it threw-off a number of critical “in-house” operations.</p>
<p>the illustrative story is the AC spark plug operations in flint, mi. the  figures i am going to quote appeared in a wsj article[A18, 31/03/06] entitled SHOWDOWN ON COSTS LOOM AS DELPHI GOES TO COURT. </p>
<p>suffice it to say, when AC was a part of GM, GM had to bear the average variable cost of a spark plug when it manufactured an engine. reportedly, that was $2.05 in 2006. but, GM required Delphi to sell that same spark plug to it for $1.70. </p>
<p>so, if the WSJ article is accurate[and as a long-time observer of the automotive industry, i think it is] Delphi took a loss on every spark plug it supplied GM.</p>
<p>and those losses were not confined to spark plugs. virtually every component GM spun-off to Delphi were then sold back to GM at a price lower than the average variable cost.</p>
<p>in the short term, this allowed the GM board to shout how it had reduced its costs. note who were officers and directors of GM while this fraud was being perpetrated.</p>
<p>and the management of Delphi was hardly a “hands-off” circumstance. JT Battenberg had been an officer and director[?] of GM when he was sent downstream to be the ceo of delphi. he was very conversant with what the bloodletting he was supposed to perform. after all, he had run AC-Delco.</p>
<p>this story goes undiscussed in the financial air[wsj, ft, cnbc]but the GM board looted the investors in delphi. a grotesque economic crime. </p>
<p>after the delphi bankruptcy filing, and delphi remains in bankruptcy, many of the divested assets were secretly restored to GM ownership by order of the bankruptcy court. i think that those bankruptcy court decisions reveal that a bandruptcy court judge recognized the fraud of those delphi divestituures. sometime last year, GM had to absorb those average variable costs. such as spark plugs.</p>
<p>of course, none of this gets covered by the whoreson media.</p>
<p>after GM pulled this divestiture stunt, ford did the same thing. created an entity known as VISTEON. into which they threw a lot of their parts making entities. and then they forced visteon to sell those parts back to ford at below average variable cost prices.</p>
<p>it should come as no surprise that visteon, like delphi, was finally forced to file for bankruptcy last week.</p>
<p>so, let us consider this history, now.</p>
<p>GM delayed its demise by the Delphi deception. but in that process it swindled all the stockholders, bondholders of delphi. do you read where this economic crime is being pursued by any law enforcement agency?</p>
<p>similarly, the stockholders and bondholders of ford’s delphi facsimile, visteon, have been defrauded. do you know of any law enforcement agency going after ford?</p>
<p>and then we must consider the icons of the purportedly progressives in the usa, the UAW. i must tell you that you must recognize the fact that the UAW was knowledgeable of these scams. and that knowledge should inform you that the UAW was an accomplice to those crimes[in the law, this is known as misprision of a felony].</p>
<p>in my view, this history is the stellar incident in contemporary fascism: big labor, big business, big government establishing a totalitarianism that destroys any semblance of the precepts of the constitution, the bill of rights.</p>
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		<title>By: tryggth</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163076</link>
		<dc:creator>tryggth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;China gets Hummer.&lt;br /&gt;
(sorry, no linky… linky maker seems broken)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>China gets Hummer.<br />
(sorry, no linky… linky maker seems broken)</p>
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		<title>By: Raven</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163070</link>
		<dc:creator>Raven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163070</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My first truck out of the army was a 62 GMC shortbed with the 305 v-6.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I tried to get a 283 when the old mill crashed but the only short block I could get was a 350! I like the look of the big window but the hot Georgia sun slammin off the chrome toolbox can be a killer.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first truck out of the army was a 62 GMC shortbed with the 305 v-6.</p>
<p>I tried to get a 283 when the old mill crashed but the only short block I could get was a 350! I like the look of the big window but the hot Georgia sun slammin off the chrome toolbox can be a killer.</p>
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		<title>By: MonkeyBoy</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/06/01/bye-bye-american-pie/#comment-163069</link>
		<dc:creator>MonkeyBoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 01:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;P.J. O’Rourke is about the only conservative I find sometimes funny. He is an excellent writer and somewhat car obsessed. Check out this recent article:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203771904574173401767415892.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The fate of Detroit isn’t a matter of economics. It’s a tragic romance, whose magic was killed by bureaucrats, bad taste and busybodies. P.J. O’Rourke on why Americans fell out of love with the automobile.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.J. O’Rourke is about the only conservative I find sometimes funny. He is an excellent writer and somewhat car obsessed. Check out this recent article:</p>
<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203771904574173401767415892.html" rel="nofollow">The fate of Detroit isn’t a matter of economics. It’s a tragic romance, whose magic was killed by bureaucrats, bad taste and busybodies. P.J. O’Rourke on why Americans fell out of love with the automobile.</a></p>
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