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	<title>Comments on: Preventative Detention and Our Crimes</title>
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		<title>By: TheraP</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161335</link>
		<dc:creator>TheraP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 14:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’ve updated my post again to reflect Feingold’s letter.  Events are moving so fast I can hardly keep up here!  LOL!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve updated my post again to reflect Feingold’s letter.  Events are moving so fast I can hardly keep up here!  LOL!</p>
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		<title>By: TheraP</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161332</link>
		<dc:creator>TheraP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 12:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Over at TPM one poster has an idea that there is a clause in Geneva that allows for detaining people indefinitely.  Not that that was the plan, but that the clause allows detention till hostilities are over.  So instead of national laws, what if they just use “treaty law” to detain the person?  Then we don’t have to worry about mental illness or whatever being the deciding factor.  That, to me, was very persuasive.  (Not that I agree with detaining anyone, you understand!  But I found the method to be a persuasive means of doing this under an international law.  Also, some of this person’s concerns for what the right-wing is doing via propaganda!)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s a blog of mine - and I’ve added links to his comments in the update section of my blog.  So just use this link, then scroll down to “update” and you can read his comments.  He has more, but you’ll be taken to the first two long comments, where he provides that info.  I found it so persuasive, and he’s someone I’ve known via the internet for a few years now, that I literally changed the title of the post.  So again, scroll to the “update” and follow the links there.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/therap/2009/05/indefinite-detention—our-con.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsme…..ur-con.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In case anybody returns here….&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over at TPM one poster has an idea that there is a clause in Geneva that allows for detaining people indefinitely.  Not that that was the plan, but that the clause allows detention till hostilities are over.  So instead of national laws, what if they just use “treaty law” to detain the person?  Then we don’t have to worry about mental illness or whatever being the deciding factor.  That, to me, was very persuasive.  (Not that I agree with detaining anyone, you understand!  But I found the method to be a persuasive means of doing this under an international law.  Also, some of this person’s concerns for what the right-wing is doing via propaganda!)</p>
<p>It’s a blog of mine &#8211; and I’ve added links to his comments in the update section of my blog.  So just use this link, then scroll down to “update” and you can read his comments.  He has more, but you’ll be taken to the first two long comments, where he provides that info.  I found it so persuasive, and he’s someone I’ve known via the internet for a few years now, that I literally changed the title of the post.  So again, scroll to the “update” and follow the links there.</p>
<p><a href="http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/therap/2009/05/indefinite-detention—our-con.php" rel="nofollow">http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsme…..ur-con.php</a></p>
<p>In case anybody returns here….</p>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161313</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 02:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161313</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The federal system for the mentally ill is forensic and overlaps with the criminally insane. When someone who is mentally ill is charged with committing a violation of federal law, they get detained in a federal correctional facility for forensic evaluation and treatment.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is perhaps necessary to point out that, in these post-Olmstead days of de-institutionalization, mental illness has been criminalized so that a large portion of our mentally ill population winds up in prisons because there’s no where else to put them when they do stuff that is not considered acceptable. It’s not that being mentally ill has become directly criminalized, but if you are mentally ill you are more likely to do things that society in general (and police in particular) are likely to consider disruptive or worse. I know about this most in the case of people who have Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, who can be hyperactive, distractable, have difficulty understanding consequences, can be gullible, and may be tactily defensive. Not to mention at risk for addiction.  That is a combustible mix. But I digress.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The federal system for the mentally ill is forensic and overlaps with the criminally insane. When someone who is mentally ill is charged with committing a violation of federal law, they get detained in a federal correctional facility for forensic evaluation and treatment.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It is perhaps necessary to point out that, in these post-Olmstead days of de-institutionalization, mental illness has been criminalized so that a large portion of our mentally ill population winds up in prisons because there’s no where else to put them when they do stuff that is not considered acceptable. It’s not that being mentally ill has become directly criminalized, but if you are mentally ill you are more likely to do things that society in general (and police in particular) are likely to consider disruptive or worse. I know about this most in the case of people who have Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, who can be hyperactive, distractable, have difficulty understanding consequences, can be gullible, and may be tactily defensive. Not to mention at risk for addiction.  That is a combustible mix. But I digress.</p>
<p>Bob in HI</p>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161310</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 02:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161310</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;TheraP,&lt;br /&gt;
I second your analysis, although I would use the phrase “Traumatic Brain Injury” to describe what you call “an organic (physical) disorder.” In any case, I agree with the need for “a complete neuropsychology work-up (in Arabic, by a trained neuropsychologist, fluent in Arabic).” I’d also add an MRI or CAT scan (not sure which is more medically appropriate) to check for lesions and other abnormal features.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The term “mental health injury,”  being used recently in connection with trauma experienced by war veterans, may also be appropriate.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks,&lt;br /&gt;
Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TheraP,<br />
I second your analysis, although I would use the phrase “Traumatic Brain Injury” to describe what you call “an organic (physical) disorder.” In any case, I agree with the need for “a complete neuropsychology work-up (in Arabic, by a trained neuropsychologist, fluent in Arabic).” I’d also add an MRI or CAT scan (not sure which is more medically appropriate) to check for lesions and other abnormal features.</p>
<p>The term “mental health injury,”  being used recently in connection with trauma experienced by war veterans, may also be appropriate.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Bob in HI</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161299</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 01:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161299</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Share, and share a … “like”, mooreagle?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s the only way to go.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;;~D&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Perhaps, your friend would not mind if you shared some tales from the  “… High Road …”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We could use some pamphleteers, about now.  (Thomas Paine, we’ve need of you.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;DW&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Share, and share a … “like”, mooreagle?</p>
<p>It’s the only way to go.</p>
<p>;~D</p>
<p>Perhaps, your friend would not mind if you shared some tales from the  “… High Road …”.</p>
<p>We could use some pamphleteers, about now.  (Thomas Paine, we’ve need of you.)</p>
<p>DW</p>
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		<title>By: mooreagal</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161254</link>
		<dc:creator>mooreagal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 19:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161254</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I just read about ABC starting (or reviving) a series called. “V.”  It’s about *aliens* who come to earth promising “hope and change” while the real intent is enslavement.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This should be interesting. Metaphor perhaps?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If Zubahdah is one of the prisoners who is too dangerous to be freed and can’t be tried, that’s totally illogical.  The man is so physically damaged that he can barely find the bathroom much less master-mind a plot against Americans.  I would think his relatives already have that covered, depending on their inclination toward revenge.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read about ABC starting (or reviving) a series called. “V.”  It’s about *aliens* who come to earth promising “hope and change” while the real intent is enslavement.</p>
<p>This should be interesting. Metaphor perhaps?</p>
<p>If Zubahdah is one of the prisoners who is too dangerous to be freed and can’t be tried, that’s totally illogical.  The man is so physically damaged that he can barely find the bathroom much less master-mind a plot against Americans.  I would think his relatives already have that covered, depending on their inclination toward revenge.</p>
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		<title>By: mooreagal</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161253</link>
		<dc:creator>mooreagal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 18:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161253</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thank you.  I like Mid-Evil!  May I quote you?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Years ago, a friend produced a pamphlet called “Endarkenment: The High Road to Lower Thinking.”  I still have it and it’s very funny, couching serious matters in humor.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you.  I like Mid-Evil!  May I quote you?  </p>
<p>Years ago, a friend produced a pamphlet called “Endarkenment: The High Road to Lower Thinking.”  I still have it and it’s very funny, couching serious matters in humor.</p>
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		<title>By: radiofreewill</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161243</link>
		<dc:creator>radiofreewill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 17:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161243</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;OT - I’m sketching.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ianapsych, but everyone involved in the issues here has, and operates within, their own Personal Belief System.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I propose that a Healthy Belief System is both Massively Coherent and Naturally Adaptive to Changing Circumstances - the mirror analog of a Seamless Ginormous Universe in Constant Flux - all the way from the Heavens down to the Smallest Observable Element on Earth.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This proposition places a Healthy Belief System between the Extremes of Structure-less Incoherence on the one hand, and Overly-Rigid Fantasy on the other hand. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To ’see’ this for yourself, consider the following:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Everything in the Observable Universe - large and small - conforms to the Law of Cause and Effect. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;From a point of Pure Dynamic Potential (Chaos) the Manifest Universe Explodes into Structured Being, and follows a steady trajectory of Continuous Dynamic Transformation - compounding up to a peak - followed by decaying down - until the Manifest Universe recedes back into Pure Dynamic Potential.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The first half of the Cycle is Increasing in Complexity of Expression - Compounding Up from Stable Structure to Stable Structure until the Peak of Maximum Manifest Expression is reached. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The second half of the cycle is Decreasing in Complexity of Expression - Decaying Down from Stable Structure to Stable Structure until the Point of Pure Dynamic Potential is reached again.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, first half of cycle: Chaos -&gt; Inorganic Matter -&gt; Organic Matter -&gt; Humans. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And, Second half of cycle: Humans -&gt; Organic Matter -&gt; Inorganic Matter -&gt; Chaos.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Entire Process - compounding and decaying - is Both Rational and Sensible, while containing no Permanent or Fixed Elements.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;IOW, the Universe and everything in it &lt;em&gt;IS&lt;/em&gt; - in fact - Massively Coherent and in Constant Flux.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, I’m saying that a Belief System is Healthy and Clear when it reflects the World As It IS: Coherently Stuctured and Constantly Changing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And, I’m saying that a Belief System is Un-Healthy and Confused when it reflects either No Coherent Structure on the one hand, or a Rigidly Fixed Structure on the other hand. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Because the Universe is Massively Coherent - it is a low-quality state - it is Dis-Harmonious Suffering - to Operate within it Indifferent to the Natural Order. What is Naturally Stable and Observable is thereby Experienced as Un-Naturally Un-stable and Hidden by those with Indifferent Belief Systems (”I don’t know what’s going on in the World, and I don’t care”.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And, because the Universe is in Constant Flux - it is a low-quality state -it is Un-Balanced Suffering - to Operate within it Attached to a Fantasy of Fixed Beliefs. What is Naturally Clear to Insight, as a consequence, is shrouded in a Fantasy of Confused Bias by those Attached to their Belief Systems. (”I know exactly what is going on in the World, and My way is the only right way.”)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What is ideal then, imvho, are Belief Systems that feature Well-Reasoned Present Understandings of Dynamic Circumstances, in accord with the Natural Order.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In conclusion, Operating within a Belief System that is both Accurate and Flexible - in between the Extremes - in Our ever-changing World - is the Shared Path of Natural Peace, Harmony and Balance for Everything in the Universe - for All that ‘is’ and All of US.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT &#8211; I’m sketching.</p>
<p>Ianapsych, but everyone involved in the issues here has, and operates within, their own Personal Belief System.</p>
<p>I propose that a Healthy Belief System is both Massively Coherent and Naturally Adaptive to Changing Circumstances &#8211; the mirror analog of a Seamless Ginormous Universe in Constant Flux &#8211; all the way from the Heavens down to the Smallest Observable Element on Earth.</p>
<p>This proposition places a Healthy Belief System between the Extremes of Structure-less Incoherence on the one hand, and Overly-Rigid Fantasy on the other hand. </p>
<p>To ’see’ this for yourself, consider the following:</p>
<p>Everything in the Observable Universe &#8211; large and small &#8211; conforms to the Law of Cause and Effect. </p>
<p>From a point of Pure Dynamic Potential (Chaos) the Manifest Universe Explodes into Structured Being, and follows a steady trajectory of Continuous Dynamic Transformation &#8211; compounding up to a peak &#8211; followed by decaying down &#8211; until the Manifest Universe recedes back into Pure Dynamic Potential.</p>
<p>The first half of the Cycle is Increasing in Complexity of Expression &#8211; Compounding Up from Stable Structure to Stable Structure until the Peak of Maximum Manifest Expression is reached. </p>
<p>The second half of the cycle is Decreasing in Complexity of Expression &#8211; Decaying Down from Stable Structure to Stable Structure until the Point of Pure Dynamic Potential is reached again.</p>
<p>So, first half of cycle: Chaos -&gt; Inorganic Matter -&gt; Organic Matter -&gt; Humans. </p>
<p>And, Second half of cycle: Humans -&gt; Organic Matter -&gt; Inorganic Matter -&gt; Chaos.</p>
<p>The Entire Process &#8211; compounding and decaying &#8211; is Both Rational and Sensible, while containing no Permanent or Fixed Elements.</p>
<p>IOW, the Universe and everything in it <em>IS</em> &#8211; in fact &#8211; Massively Coherent and in Constant Flux.</p>
<p>So, I’m saying that a Belief System is Healthy and Clear when it reflects the World As It IS: Coherently Stuctured and Constantly Changing.</p>
<p>And, I’m saying that a Belief System is Un-Healthy and Confused when it reflects either No Coherent Structure on the one hand, or a Rigidly Fixed Structure on the other hand. </p>
<p>Because the Universe is Massively Coherent &#8211; it is a low-quality state &#8211; it is Dis-Harmonious Suffering &#8211; to Operate within it Indifferent to the Natural Order. What is Naturally Stable and Observable is thereby Experienced as Un-Naturally Un-stable and Hidden by those with Indifferent Belief Systems (”I don’t know what’s going on in the World, and I don’t care”.)</p>
<p>And, because the Universe is in Constant Flux &#8211; it is a low-quality state -it is Un-Balanced Suffering &#8211; to Operate within it Attached to a Fantasy of Fixed Beliefs. What is Naturally Clear to Insight, as a consequence, is shrouded in a Fantasy of Confused Bias by those Attached to their Belief Systems. (”I know exactly what is going on in the World, and My way is the only right way.”)</p>
<p>What is ideal then, imvho, are Belief Systems that feature Well-Reasoned Present Understandings of Dynamic Circumstances, in accord with the Natural Order.</p>
<p>In conclusion, Operating within a Belief System that is both Accurate and Flexible &#8211; in between the Extremes &#8211; in Our ever-changing World &#8211; is the Shared Path of Natural Peace, Harmony and Balance for Everything in the Universe &#8211; for All that ‘is’ and All of US.</p>
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		<title>By: TheraP</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161238</link>
		<dc:creator>TheraP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 17:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161238</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for that, Muzzy!  I still think his primary difficulties appear to be organic ones.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sticky wicket, then, if the federal laws are only for the criminally mentally ill.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In my view the man needs treatment for so many things.  Including what we’ve done to him of course.  If you simply read his suffering due to being deprived of his diaries (like a child of his), your heart goes out to him.  His feet are cold and they won’t let him have socks.  So he uses his prayer hat to warm each foot in turn.  It’s heartbreaking.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now off.  To minister to the truly sick.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that, Muzzy!  I still think his primary difficulties appear to be organic ones.</p>
<p>Sticky wicket, then, if the federal laws are only for the criminally mentally ill.  </p>
<p>In my view the man needs treatment for so many things.  Including what we’ve done to him of course.  If you simply read his suffering due to being deprived of his diaries (like a child of his), your heart goes out to him.  His feet are cold and they won’t let him have socks.  So he uses his prayer hat to warm each foot in turn.  It’s heartbreaking.  </p>
<p>Now off.  To minister to the truly sick.</p>
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		<title>By: Palli</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161234</link>
		<dc:creator>Palli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 17:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/23/preventative-detention-and-our-crazy/#comment-161234</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;but I’m not sleeping well…too much to cry about&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but I’m not sleeping well…too much to cry about</p>
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