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	<title>Comments on: The Two Torture Tape Suspects, the Pelosi Briefing, and the Panetta Statement</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/</link>
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		<title>By: hooya67</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-159390</link>
		<dc:creator>hooya67</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 14:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/#comment-159390</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;i am interested in seeing more of what is in bob graham’s notebook. ??&lt;br /&gt;
also more on the thug squad ie. blackwater ie. xe (z) and what can be done to prosecute these individuals for doing the the cia’s dirty work.it also seems that they enjoy doing this from the extent of their harsh treatment of the detainees?&lt;br /&gt;
it seems to me that some one once said that the reason for these contractors being implemented is because the government officials are responsible. if i am correct this came from kermit bush’s office during that era of time.the federal reserves official at that time.&lt;br /&gt;
now with this being said, no one seems to be responsible. do they?&lt;br /&gt;
our law is for the poor individuals and other individuals that can produce more money governmentally or privately it appears.&lt;br /&gt;
i am appalled and not surprised that these officals are lieing to congress. which seems to be lieing: and it seems everyone envolved is lieing.watch jay bybee and dick cheney behaviors when giving intervoews and testimony. they appear to resemble true criminal behaviors.this happens to be why most attorney’s will not have their clients utter a word.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i am interested in seeing more of what is in bob graham’s notebook. ??<br />
also more on the thug squad ie. blackwater ie. xe (z) and what can be done to prosecute these individuals for doing the the cia’s dirty work.it also seems that they enjoy doing this from the extent of their harsh treatment of the detainees?<br />
it seems to me that some one once said that the reason for these contractors being implemented is because the government officials are responsible. if i am correct this came from kermit bush’s office during that era of time.the federal reserves official at that time.<br />
now with this being said, no one seems to be responsible. do they?<br />
our law is for the poor individuals and other individuals that can produce more money governmentally or privately it appears.<br />
i am appalled and not surprised that these officals are lieing to congress. which seems to be lieing: and it seems everyone envolved is lieing.watch jay bybee and dick cheney behaviors when giving intervoews and testimony. they appear to resemble true criminal behaviors.this happens to be why most attorney’s will not have their clients utter a word.</p>
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		<title>By: timbo</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-159305</link>
		<dc:creator>timbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 02:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/#comment-159305</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I wonder which high level official(s) appeared on those tapes…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder which high level official(s) appeared on those tapes…</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-158952</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 07:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/#comment-158952</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, right back at ya.  So, lets be honest here, you just came to spread the same crappy concern trolling that your partner Tanbark so annoyingly does.  Keep your concern to your own site and leave the denizens of this one alone.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, right back at ya.  So, lets be honest here, you just came to spread the same crappy concern trolling that your partner Tanbark so annoyingly does.  Keep your concern to your own site and leave the denizens of this one alone.</p>
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		<title>By: MyrtleJune</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-158951</link>
		<dc:creator>MyrtleJune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 06:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/#comment-158951</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Happy riding &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy riding </p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-158949</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 05:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/#comment-158949</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You bet I think that upholding the rule of law and the Constitution is more important than anything else.  It is what this country is founded upon and what all the people defending it since that day have died for.  I have damn little patience for those that think it can be, or should be, subjugated to political concerns.  That type of expedience is what has led the country to where it is today.  If you think that way, there will always be some reason; the country can do far better.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Oh, and by the way, there are statutes for war crimes that do not involve death (8 years and five years for the conspiracies to commit them), and they are expiring every day.  Your offhand assertion of the case of Demjanjuk is completely inapposite.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You bet I think that upholding the rule of law and the Constitution is more important than anything else.  It is what this country is founded upon and what all the people defending it since that day have died for.  I have damn little patience for those that think it can be, or should be, subjugated to political concerns.  That type of expedience is what has led the country to where it is today.  If you think that way, there will always be some reason; the country can do far better.</p>
<p>Oh, and by the way, there are statutes for war crimes that do not involve death (8 years and five years for the conspiracies to commit them), and they are expiring every day.  Your offhand assertion of the case of Demjanjuk is completely inapposite.</p>
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		<title>By: MyrtleJune</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-158948</link>
		<dc:creator>MyrtleJune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 05:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/#comment-158948</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh and …. the “perfectly LEGAL” is reference to the torture memos that cheney had the justice department write up so they could claim the justice department said it was “legal”.  Plausable deniability. That was just after he planted the next “news” story in the news paper so he could go on the Sunday talkies and claim he read it in the paper so it must be so. Busy busy little man he was….. and is…. STILL.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and …. the “perfectly LEGAL” is reference to the torture memos that cheney had the justice department write up so they could claim the justice department said it was “legal”.  Plausable deniability. That was just after he planted the next “news” story in the news paper so he could go on the Sunday talkies and claim he read it in the paper so it must be so. Busy busy little man he was….. and is…. STILL.</p>
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		<title>By: MyrtleJune</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-158944</link>
		<dc:creator>MyrtleJune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 05:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/#comment-158944</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ummm… well, YOU might want to look up both “statute of limitations” and “laches” in relation to War Crimes.  Just ask the German guy they just hauled off….. no brainer.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;AND have you never taken over a job and tried to figure out just what went on before? It’s not like Obama put Pannetta there for NO reason… gah. Let’s also not forget dick cheney’s continued insistance that he has some “inside” information and/or contacts in his continued book sale tour. I think we’d want to be finding out just who those people are. Do you think they’re going to step out and say “Yes, I pass all the classified info on to Dick, after all he’s the VP”?  We’ll they’re not. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The thing is you seem to want Obama to act just exactly like the republicans acted and go off all half cocked over every little thing. He’s NOT them if you haven’t noticed. I, for one, want to keep on with HIS agenda no matter who is calling for hims to alter it. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m saying America cannot do both. You want to forget the house is on fire to determine just who tattled on whom for playing with matches. And you want the Fire Chief to listen to your squabble instead of putting out the freaking fire! No, I’m sorry but you’re out of time here. Putting Dick Cheney’s agenda ahead of what NEEDS to be done right now is not on my radar. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Rule of Law… sure. Constitution…. sure. Right NOW…. NO. Right now we need to be making damn sure the republicans cannot manage to drive the news cycle and cannot create a divide and conquer tactic. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I always  knew there were people who just can’t think things through, in the larger sense, I just didn’t think they were “on my side”. IF you’ve never been in a tactical war with politics, yes even office politics, then you really should just take my word for it. Now is not the time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Oh, and dick cheney wants his high horse back when you’re done riding it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ummm… well, YOU might want to look up both “statute of limitations” and “laches” in relation to War Crimes.  Just ask the German guy they just hauled off….. no brainer.</p>
<p>AND have you never taken over a job and tried to figure out just what went on before? It’s not like Obama put Pannetta there for NO reason… gah. Let’s also not forget dick cheney’s continued insistance that he has some “inside” information and/or contacts in his continued book sale tour. I think we’d want to be finding out just who those people are. Do you think they’re going to step out and say “Yes, I pass all the classified info on to Dick, after all he’s the VP”?  We’ll they’re not. </p>
<p>The thing is you seem to want Obama to act just exactly like the republicans acted and go off all half cocked over every little thing. He’s NOT them if you haven’t noticed. I, for one, want to keep on with HIS agenda no matter who is calling for hims to alter it. </p>
<p>I’m saying America cannot do both. You want to forget the house is on fire to determine just who tattled on whom for playing with matches. And you want the Fire Chief to listen to your squabble instead of putting out the freaking fire! No, I’m sorry but you’re out of time here. Putting Dick Cheney’s agenda ahead of what NEEDS to be done right now is not on my radar. </p>
<p>Rule of Law… sure. Constitution…. sure. Right NOW…. NO. Right now we need to be making damn sure the republicans cannot manage to drive the news cycle and cannot create a divide and conquer tactic. </p>
<p>I always  knew there were people who just can’t think things through, in the larger sense, I just didn’t think they were “on my side”. IF you’ve never been in a tactical war with politics, yes even office politics, then you really should just take my word for it. Now is not the time.</p>
<p>Oh, and dick cheney wants his high horse back when you’re done riding it.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-158937</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 05:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/#comment-158937</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You might want to look up a little concept called “statute of limitations”. And while you are at it, perhaps investigate the concept of laches. Oh, and what investigation is it you believe is magically going on?? What do you allege was “perfectly legal”, and on what basis would you allege that? Why is health care more important that the Constitution and the root rule of law? So, are you saying Obama cannot do both? So many questions; I look forward to the answers.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might want to look up a little concept called “statute of limitations”. And while you are at it, perhaps investigate the concept of laches. Oh, and what investigation is it you believe is magically going on?? What do you allege was “perfectly legal”, and on what basis would you allege that? Why is health care more important that the Constitution and the root rule of law? So, are you saying Obama cannot do both? So many questions; I look forward to the answers.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-158934</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 05:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/#comment-158934</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That’s probably (one of) the reasons they provided another bit of evidence/argument (the OLC memos) to push CIA and anyone else involved to go ahead with the torturing. How could someone in that position make an independent judgment and ignore their commanders if there was an OLC legal opinion backing it up? That would put front-line people in a very difficult situation — no fuzzy areas when the lawyers have spoken.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course, as I suspect through most of Shrub’s life, the lawyers (probably judges too) appear to have been bought &amp; paid for.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s probably (one of) the reasons they provided another bit of evidence/argument (the OLC memos) to push CIA and anyone else involved to go ahead with the torturing. How could someone in that position make an independent judgment and ignore their commanders if there was an OLC legal opinion backing it up? That would put front-line people in a very difficult situation — no fuzzy areas when the lawyers have spoken.</p>
<p>Of course, as I suspect through most of Shrub’s life, the lawyers (probably judges too) appear to have been bought &amp; paid for.</p>
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		<title>By: MyrtleJune</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/comment-page-1/#comment-158933</link>
		<dc:creator>MyrtleJune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 04:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/16/the-two-torture-tape-suspects-the-pelosi-briefing-and-the-panetta-statement/#comment-158933</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree that Panetta was speaking words….. meaningless words unless of course you are CIA trying to keep your job and singing like birdies about what bush wanted them to do and that they probably did do. So, Obama and Panetta don’t want that “openness” to end just quite yet. Still finding where the bodies were buried as it were. I don’t see the problem with what he said.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t see the problem with what Pelosi said. Graham backs her up on that basicially though they may have been at different meetings. Of course the CIA didn’t come out and tell Congress a damn thing in any straing forward way at all. And of course Congress, including Pelosi, didn’t call anyone on anything at the time. Didn’t ask for clarification if there was any doubt what their less than plain talk was inferring. Of course they didn’t. And why would they? And what does it matter now anyway? It doesn’t.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For cryin’ out loud we’re talking about Nancy “impeachment is off the table” Pelosi here!!!!! Even IF she KNEW, regardless of when or how she knew, she would have done nothing. I mean what could she or would she have done? It was all “perfectly LEGAL” at the time after all. So what. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you all don’t see ALL of this as Dick Cheney crawling out from under the bus and trying to grab ahold of the steering wheel, then I think you might want to get a wide angle lens on this thing. Divide and conquer is what they’re up to here. Already the pubs, the old guard because the new ones are truely too stupid, have found a way to pit the dems against each other and against Obama. Way to go!! Gah.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yes, I think there should be an investigation, and there probably IS one going on right now and all the hub bub is surely hampering that effort. I ALSO think the public should let that investigation go on and stop being driven by Dick Cheney!! We elected a man who KNOWS what he is doing and he is trying to DO HEALTH CARE right now and fix our economy as well. There is a time for this BUT this is not it. Dammit you all want Obama to act all kneejerky the way the pubs used to do.  Why should he? There’s NO time limit on this.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now, Pannetta came out to protect his people and they work they are doing TODAY.  He could gave a hoot what Pelosi knew and when…… however, the republicans now have  toe hold to climb back in this thing. Cheney is driving the news cycle. I don’t think this is PROGRESS at all. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Seems we asked for CHANGE and yet, we’re not willing to change our own ways to make sure we’re changing the things we CAN. We can’t CHANGE what bushco did, We CAN change how health care will go though. Focus.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yes, I want some frog marching. You BET I do. BUT I don’t want to be so distracted by Cheney’s attempt to steer us off course at THIS moment that we miss what is going on NOW. I think the summer of 2012 might be a better time for hearings and indictments and such. But that’s just me. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Panetta was speaking words….. meaningless words unless of course you are CIA trying to keep your job and singing like birdies about what bush wanted them to do and that they probably did do. So, Obama and Panetta don’t want that “openness” to end just quite yet. Still finding where the bodies were buried as it were. I don’t see the problem with what he said.</p>
<p>I don’t see the problem with what Pelosi said. Graham backs her up on that basicially though they may have been at different meetings. Of course the CIA didn’t come out and tell Congress a damn thing in any straing forward way at all. And of course Congress, including Pelosi, didn’t call anyone on anything at the time. Didn’t ask for clarification if there was any doubt what their less than plain talk was inferring. Of course they didn’t. And why would they? And what does it matter now anyway? It doesn’t.</p>
<p>For cryin’ out loud we’re talking about Nancy “impeachment is off the table” Pelosi here!!!!! Even IF she KNEW, regardless of when or how she knew, she would have done nothing. I mean what could she or would she have done? It was all “perfectly LEGAL” at the time after all. So what. </p>
<p>If you all don’t see ALL of this as Dick Cheney crawling out from under the bus and trying to grab ahold of the steering wheel, then I think you might want to get a wide angle lens on this thing. Divide and conquer is what they’re up to here. Already the pubs, the old guard because the new ones are truely too stupid, have found a way to pit the dems against each other and against Obama. Way to go!! Gah.</p>
<p>Yes, I think there should be an investigation, and there probably IS one going on right now and all the hub bub is surely hampering that effort. I ALSO think the public should let that investigation go on and stop being driven by Dick Cheney!! We elected a man who KNOWS what he is doing and he is trying to DO HEALTH CARE right now and fix our economy as well. There is a time for this BUT this is not it. Dammit you all want Obama to act all kneejerky the way the pubs used to do.  Why should he? There’s NO time limit on this.</p>
<p>Now, Pannetta came out to protect his people and they work they are doing TODAY.  He could gave a hoot what Pelosi knew and when…… however, the republicans now have  toe hold to climb back in this thing. Cheney is driving the news cycle. I don’t think this is PROGRESS at all. </p>
<p>Seems we asked for CHANGE and yet, we’re not willing to change our own ways to make sure we’re changing the things we CAN. We can’t CHANGE what bushco did, We CAN change how health care will go though. Focus.  </p>
<p>Yes, I want some frog marching. You BET I do. BUT I don’t want to be so distracted by Cheney’s attempt to steer us off course at THIS moment that we miss what is going on NOW. I think the summer of 2012 might be a better time for hearings and indictments and such. But that’s just me. </p>
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