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	<title>Comments on: Soufan&#8217;s Narrative</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/</link>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157987</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 03:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157987</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, I note that now, a D. Mitchell of South Africa.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Why am I less than happy about finding synchronicities between so-called psychologists involved in torture, and researchers in physiology from German and South Africa…ugh.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m hoping it’s just a fluke.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I note that now, a D. Mitchell of South Africa.</p>
<p>Why am I less than happy about finding synchronicities between so-called psychologists involved in torture, and researchers in physiology from German and South Africa…ugh.</p>
<p>I’m hoping it’s just a fluke.</p>
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		<title>By: shekissesfrogs</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157489</link>
		<dc:creator>shekissesfrogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 15:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157489</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Besides the excellent investigative blogging that occurs here, the level of honesty of the commenters helps to keep it ticking along at the furious pace at which it moves rather than being distracted by the stupid. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Besides the excellent investigative blogging that occurs here, the level of honesty of the commenters helps to keep it ticking along at the furious pace at which it moves rather than being distracted by the stupid. </p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157359</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 13:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157359</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There is also a Mitchell listed.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also a Mitchell listed.</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157350</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 12:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157350</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, same person I saw, a Claus Jessen, cited as contributor to the paper in question:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Jessen, C. (Justus-Liebig-Universität, Germany)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The same person’s work,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Jessen, C. (2001). Temperature Regulation in Humans and Other Mammals. Berlin: Springer.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;was referred to in a number of other physiological studies.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Could be purely coincidental — or they could have seen his work and decided to offer Jessen another chance to “study” on humans. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Certainly would explain the videotapes; wouldn’t that also explain at least one description of the tapes as “clinical” in nature?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m going to be out of pocket much of the day, will try to follow up later this afternoon if you leave anything here or by email.  Thanks much!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, same person I saw, a Claus Jessen, cited as contributor to the paper in question:</p>
<blockquote><p>Jessen, C. (Justus-Liebig-Universität, Germany)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The same person’s work,</p>
<blockquote><p>Jessen, C. (2001). Temperature Regulation in Humans and Other Mammals. Berlin: Springer.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>was referred to in a number of other physiological studies.</p>
<p>Could be purely coincidental — or they could have seen his work and decided to offer Jessen another chance to “study” on humans. </p>
<p>Certainly would explain the videotapes; wouldn’t that also explain at least one description of the tapes as “clinical” in nature?</p>
<p>I’m going to be out of pocket much of the day, will try to follow up later this afternoon if you leave anything here or by email.  Thanks much!</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157349</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 11:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157349</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;[edit: btw, Jessen’s name has appeared as John “Bruce” Jessen in at least one other outlet’s reporting, including the quote marks; to my mind, this suggests an assigned op name.]&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A friend just suggested something like that to me. The friend even wondered if the last names were as well?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Here’s one:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:kq9Pb89ki2IJ:wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/psj/jjp/Glossary.pdf+JP+Mitchell+Jessen+physiology&amp;cd=3&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=us&amp;client=firefox-a&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://74.125.95.132/search?q=.....=firefox-a&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It may take me a few to find the other I came across.  BTW, you’ll find them in the appendix under contributing authors.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>[edit: btw, Jessen’s name has appeared as John “Bruce” Jessen in at least one other outlet’s reporting, including the quote marks; to my mind, this suggests an assigned op name.]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>A friend just suggested something like that to me. The friend even wondered if the last names were as well?</p>
<p>Here’s one:</p>
<p><a href="http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:kq9Pb89ki2IJ:wwwsoc.nii.ac.jp/psj/jjp/Glossary.pdf+JP+Mitchell+Jessen+physiology&amp;cd=3&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=us&amp;client=firefox-a" rel="nofollow">http://74.125.95.132/search?q=&#8230;..=firefox-a</a></p>
<p>It may take me a few to find the other I came across.  BTW, you’ll find them in the appendix under contributing authors.</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157345</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 11:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157345</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Could you post or cc: me by email with that info? rayne_today [at] yahoo&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Spent a big chunk of time surfing docs from Vietnam looking for names, have only run into one oddity, wondering if I needed to look under different names.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[edit: btw, Jessen’s name has appeared as &lt;em&gt;John “Bruce” Jessen&lt;/em&gt; in at least one other outlet’s reporting, including the quote marks; to my mind, this suggests an assigned op name.]&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you post or cc: me by email with that info? rayne_today [at] yahoo</p>
<p>Spent a big chunk of time surfing docs from Vietnam looking for names, have only run into one oddity, wondering if I needed to look under different names.</p>
<p>[edit: btw, Jessen’s name has appeared as <em>John “Bruce” Jessen</em> in at least one other outlet’s reporting, including the quote marks; to my mind, this suggests an assigned op name.]</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157279</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 03:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157279</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I sent Marcy links over a week ago to studies that had researchers with the last names Mitchell and Jessen but the first names were different. They were in areas of research which would apply to torture but not their areas of expertise. (Example of one of the studies: Thermal Physiology - this was the study that brought my attention to induced hypothermia as treatment for cardiac arrest.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If interested, I’ll try and find the link and repost.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sent Marcy links over a week ago to studies that had researchers with the last names Mitchell and Jessen but the first names were different. They were in areas of research which would apply to torture but not their areas of expertise. (Example of one of the studies: Thermal Physiology &#8211; this was the study that brought my attention to induced hypothermia as treatment for cardiac arrest.)</p>
<p>If interested, I’ll try and find the link and repost.</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157261</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 03:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157261</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If there were &lt;a href=&quot;http://usacac.army.mil/CAC/milreview/English/MarApr06/Andrade-Willbanks.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;704 program “advisers” in 1970&lt;/a&gt;, there’s a good chance at least half of these people are still alive and walking around — which might mean far less dilution than the generations of programs imply (Phoenix &gt; SOA &gt; JPRA/SERE).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Assume that these so-called advisers were 30 years of age in 1970; we’re looking for men about 69 years old, give or take five years depending on their stature within the program.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there were <a href="http://usacac.army.mil/CAC/milreview/English/MarApr06/Andrade-Willbanks.pdf" rel="nofollow">704 program “advisers” in 1970</a>, there’s a good chance at least half of these people are still alive and walking around — which might mean far less dilution than the generations of programs imply (Phoenix &gt; SOA &gt; JPRA/SERE).</p>
<p>Assume that these so-called advisers were 30 years of age in 1970; we’re looking for men about 69 years old, give or take five years depending on their stature within the program.</p>
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		<title>By: reader</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157252</link>
		<dc:creator>reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 03:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157252</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;When Maher Arar was held and tortured in Syria he was kept in an underground cell the size of a coffin for months.  He said it was like being ”buried alive.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ask Graham: they’ve probably been using this ”technique” for 500 years too.  Greatest hits and all.  Top ten.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It didn’t ”work” on Arar.  He was completely innocent.  He had never been to Afghanistan.  He was a software engineer and family man in Canada and the US.  Under torture he told them what they wanted to hear.  I remember the reports in Canada that characterized him as a terrorist.  For months.  Officials, Members of Parliament, Lawyers … it went on and on.  Lies based on nothing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Under torture at Gitmo, the child soldier Omar Khadr identified Arar as someone he had seen at a safe house in Afghanistan.  From a black and white driver’s license photo.  And Arar remains on the US no fly list.  And Napolitano among others still repeats the lie that some of the 9/11 hijackers came through the Canadian border.  The Canadian ambassador in Washington follows this up each time it reappears and still this lie will not die.  I guess it’s a guilt/denial thing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Meanwhile the Canadian Supreme Court has ruled that the Canadian government MUST repatriate Khadr from Gitmo.  The Canadian government is appealing the ruling.  Hearings on Khadr’s case have been started and stopped three times now?  The defense team has reported ongoing and repeated prosecutorial misconduct.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;All of these lies have so much power.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But, yes, we have only just begun and we shall see what time brings to light and thought.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks and congratulations ew!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Maher Arar was held and tortured in Syria he was kept in an underground cell the size of a coffin for months.  He said it was like being ”buried alive.”</p>
<p>Ask Graham: they’ve probably been using this ”technique” for 500 years too.  Greatest hits and all.  Top ten.</p>
<p>It didn’t ”work” on Arar.  He was completely innocent.  He had never been to Afghanistan.  He was a software engineer and family man in Canada and the US.  Under torture he told them what they wanted to hear.  I remember the reports in Canada that characterized him as a terrorist.  For months.  Officials, Members of Parliament, Lawyers … it went on and on.  Lies based on nothing.</p>
<p>Under torture at Gitmo, the child soldier Omar Khadr identified Arar as someone he had seen at a safe house in Afghanistan.  From a black and white driver’s license photo.  And Arar remains on the US no fly list.  And Napolitano among others still repeats the lie that some of the 9/11 hijackers came through the Canadian border.  The Canadian ambassador in Washington follows this up each time it reappears and still this lie will not die.  I guess it’s a guilt/denial thing.</p>
<p>Meanwhile the Canadian Supreme Court has ruled that the Canadian government MUST repatriate Khadr from Gitmo.  The Canadian government is appealing the ruling.  Hearings on Khadr’s case have been started and stopped three times now?  The defense team has reported ongoing and repeated prosecutorial misconduct.</p>
<p>All of these lies have so much power.</p>
<p>But, yes, we have only just begun and we shall see what time brings to light and thought.</p>
<p>Thanks and congratulations ew!</p>
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		<title>By: phred</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157237</link>
		<dc:creator>phred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 02:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/13/soufans-narrative/#comment-157237</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh I’m sure once we can move the debate off the ridiculous ticking time bomb meme and onto the torture of innocent people and worse the deaths-by-torture that occurred, that even Graham will lose the ability to wag his finger at witnesses he doesn’t like.  But I’m more convinced than ever that Whitehouse is piecing together a case like the careful prosecutor he is.  I have no doubt (ok, that’s too strong, how ’bout I’m guardedly optimistic ; ) he’ll get there, but it is important to lay out a clear path along the way.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh I’m sure once we can move the debate off the ridiculous ticking time bomb meme and onto the torture of innocent people and worse the deaths-by-torture that occurred, that even Graham will lose the ability to wag his finger at witnesses he doesn’t like.  But I’m more convinced than ever that Whitehouse is piecing together a case like the careful prosecutor he is.  I have no doubt (ok, that’s too strong, how ’bout I’m guardedly optimistic ; ) he’ll get there, but it is important to lay out a clear path along the way.</p>
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