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	<title>Comments on: Memo to WaPo: Torture Is Not Just Waterboarding</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/</link>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155670</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 01:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155670</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If such a briefing occurred it’s not on the CIA’s list of “briefings”. Which is odd…since they surely would want to show all the recorded legitimate briefings to those in the appropriate Committees.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So either this report is a) false; b) to individuals not in the Gang of 8; c) only made available to one Party in the Gang of Eight (and not the minority Party).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If there really was a “video-conference briefing with a virtual tour” one would have to wonder why there are no records of such a complex activity. Certainly there would be a large number of actions recorded that would have needed to be arranged to have such a briefing. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As well, a virtual tour almost always means that something was pre-recorded. So there must be a VCD of such a presentation. Where is it?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If such a briefing occurred it’s not on the CIA’s list of “briefings”. Which is odd…since they surely would want to show all the recorded legitimate briefings to those in the appropriate Committees.</p>
<p>So either this report is a) false; b) to individuals not in the Gang of 8; c) only made available to one Party in the Gang of Eight (and not the minority Party).</p>
<p>If there really was a “video-conference briefing with a virtual tour” one would have to wonder why there are no records of such a complex activity. Certainly there would be a large number of actions recorded that would have needed to be arranged to have such a briefing. </p>
<p>As well, a virtual tour almost always means that something was pre-recorded. So there must be a VCD of such a presentation. Where is it?</p>
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		<title>By: lurkinlil</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155656</link>
		<dc:creator>lurkinlil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 20:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155656</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;in response to freepatriot at 120:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Well done!  I think you are wonderful, as are the rest of you, especially EW.  I think this exceptional young woman is a genius!&lt;br /&gt;
Lil&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in response to freepatriot at 120:</p>
<p>Well done!  I think you are wonderful, as are the rest of you, especially EW.  I think this exceptional young woman is a genius!<br />
Lil</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155635</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 14:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155635</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Generously, excellently well phrased, sir ;-)))&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ll only add that in case ‘frankly0′ needs a reminder, in medieval courts the Jester, or ‘Fool’, was among the smartest people at court.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thinking of you — and Keith Olbermann — this Mother’s Day.&lt;br /&gt;
You guys do your moms proud.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Generously, excellently well phrased, sir ;-)))</p>
<p>I’ll only add that in case ‘frankly0′ needs a reminder, in medieval courts the Jester, or ‘Fool’, was among the smartest people at court.  </p>
<p>Thinking of you — and Keith Olbermann — this Mother’s Day.<br />
You guys do your moms proud.</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155614</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 05:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155614</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;well, next time, instead of commenting, try shutting yer pie hole and watching how we figure stuff out&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Marcy is one of the greatest detectives you ever heard of. She does most of the work, an pays all of the bills (you did pay that liquor bill from the superbowl trash talk thread, right ???)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Marcy can sort thru the bullshit like nobody you’ve ever seen before, and this is how she does what she do&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;we got a lot of bit players here who help out,. Everybody plays their part. I’m the Blog’s Fool, sometimes bouncer, and resident asshole. So find another part&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;we bounce questions off each other, post links to stuff we only partially realize is important, tear apart theories and rebuild them again. It’s not hard to fit in. But ya gotta stick with the program.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;so we can sit back to watch Marcy an a few other brainiacs to sort it out&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;they ALWAYS DO&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;give us time to show ya how this whole “best blogger on the planet” thingy happens&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;an remember to be polite (I’m usually the only one around here who forgets that rule, you don’t want that …)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;DON’T FUCK WITH MY MUSE, PAL&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Welcome Aboard, new guy, an next time ya come, bring beer …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(wink)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, next time, instead of commenting, try shutting yer pie hole and watching how we figure stuff out</p>
<p>Marcy is one of the greatest detectives you ever heard of. She does most of the work, an pays all of the bills (you did pay that liquor bill from the superbowl trash talk thread, right ???)</p>
<p>Marcy can sort thru the bullshit like nobody you’ve ever seen before, and this is how she does what she do</p>
<p>we got a lot of bit players here who help out,. Everybody plays their part. I’m the Blog’s Fool, sometimes bouncer, and resident asshole. So find another part</p>
<p>we bounce questions off each other, post links to stuff we only partially realize is important, tear apart theories and rebuild them again. It’s not hard to fit in. But ya gotta stick with the program.</p>
<p>so we can sit back to watch Marcy an a few other brainiacs to sort it out</p>
<p>they ALWAYS DO</p>
<p>give us time to show ya how this whole “best blogger on the planet” thingy happens</p>
<p>an remember to be polite (I’m usually the only one around here who forgets that rule, you don’t want that …)</p>
<p>DON’T FUCK WITH MY MUSE, PAL</p>
<p>Welcome Aboard, new guy, an next time ya come, bring beer …</p>
<p>(wink)</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155613</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 05:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155613</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So who is placing Pelosi in this spot and distracting the public, d’ya think?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So who is placing Pelosi in this spot and distracting the public, d’ya think?</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155611</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 04:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155611</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;plenty who read this blog have been in situations where you couldn’t publicly say what you knew/know — you’d get hit with a lawsuit, or worse!&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;worse = property damages, personal danger, incarceration, and possibly deportation&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><strong>plenty who read this blog have been in situations where you couldn’t publicly say what you knew/know — you’d get hit with a lawsuit, or worse!</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p>worse = property damages, personal danger, incarceration, and possibly deportation</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155602</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 03:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155602</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;pelosi can institute an investigation of the cia operations, that’s why.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;this pelosi “affair” is an effort to intimidate the speaker of the u.s. house of representatives.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Excellent point!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And one other point — William Ockham’s excellent remarks at 102 make many things clear, but it should also be underscored that because she’s required to keep quite about certain briefings, in a very real sense Pelosi is vulnerable because she can’t fight back — legally — without revealing classified information.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Probably plenty who read this blog have been in situations where you couldn’t publicly say what you knew/know — you’d get hit with a lawsuit, or worse!  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is worth being explicit about the fact that whoever is spreading this smoke knows full well that Pelosi can’t answer the charges.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And it’s also worth noting that in order for the Plame Leaks to work, those leaking the info relied on the recipients of the information to hide the identities of the leakers — behind Freedom of the Press claims.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is a bit of a Redux, but this time people are leaking about someone who — for legal reasons — cannot defend herself by revealing what she knows.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>pelosi can institute an investigation of the cia operations, that’s why.</p>
<p>this pelosi “affair” is an effort to intimidate the speaker of the u.s. house of representatives.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Excellent point!</p>
<p>And one other point — William Ockham’s excellent remarks at 102 make many things clear, but it should also be underscored that because she’s required to keep quite about certain briefings, in a very real sense Pelosi is vulnerable because she can’t fight back — legally — without revealing classified information.</p>
<p>Probably plenty who read this blog have been in situations where you couldn’t publicly say what you knew/know — you’d get hit with a lawsuit, or worse!  </p>
<p>It is worth being explicit about the fact that whoever is spreading this smoke knows full well that Pelosi can’t answer the charges.</p>
<p>And it’s also worth noting that in order for the Plame Leaks to work, those leaking the info relied on the recipients of the information to hide the identities of the leakers — behind Freedom of the Press claims.</p>
<p>This is a bit of a Redux, but this time people are leaking about someone who — for legal reasons — cannot defend herself by revealing what she knows.</p>
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		<title>By: orionATL</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155600</link>
		<dc:creator>orionATL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 03:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155600</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;keeping things in context:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;please note, &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;nary a SENATOR attacked; nary a SENATOR accused of anything, &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;even of something as trivial as having been told by bad guys they (the bad guys) were doing some really baaad-assed things.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;why?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;why pelosi?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;pelosi can institute an investigation of the cia operations, that’s why.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;sen harry reid has said “no investigation”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;what could be clearer? and we need to keep this point in clearest sight.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;this pelosi “affair” is an effort to intimidate the speaker of the u.s. house of representatives.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;would that the cia had proved competent at sniffing out yahoos from saudi arabia trying to learn how to fly, but not land, large airplanes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;alas, the cia is not good at what we hope, and have a right to expect it will be good at.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the cia is really good only at a cover-up.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it’s acronym should be cya, not cia.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>keeping things in context:</p>
<p>please note, </p>
<p>nary a SENATOR attacked; nary a SENATOR accused of anything, </p>
<p>even of something as trivial as having been told by bad guys they (the bad guys) were doing some really baaad-assed things.</p>
<p>why?</p>
<p>why pelosi?</p>
<p>pelosi can institute an investigation of the cia operations, that’s why.</p>
<p>sen harry reid has said “no investigation”.</p>
<p>what could be clearer? and we need to keep this point in clearest sight.</p>
<p>this pelosi “affair” is an effort to intimidate the speaker of the u.s. house of representatives.</p>
<p>would that the cia had proved competent at sniffing out yahoos from saudi arabia trying to learn how to fly, but not land, large airplanes.</p>
<p>alas, the cia is not good at what we hope, and have a right to expect it will be good at.</p>
<p>the cia is really good only at a cover-up.</p>
<p>it’s acronym should be cya, not cia.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155595</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 02:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155595</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Evidently, I’m less patient than phred on this thread.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Suppose that a robber enters a bank, quietly pulls a gun on a teller, and gets half a million (in 100s, 50s, and 20s), then walks out the door.  No gunfire, and no one but the teller, the alarm system, and the robber are aware of the heist at the time.  Two windows away, a woman requests cash from a teller by handing over a check from her personal savings account.  She leaves the bank with $250 cash in 20s and 50s on the heels of the gunman, completely oblivious of the heist. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Two minutes later, both cars are stopped by the cops.&lt;br /&gt;
The robber then claims that:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1. He wasn’t the only one in the bank.&lt;br /&gt;
2. Someone else also walked out with money!&lt;br /&gt;
3. Someone else left the bank with 20s and 50s — just look! He can &lt;em&gt;prove&lt;/em&gt; it — &lt;em&gt;that lady has to show her money&lt;/em&gt;!&lt;br /&gt;
4. He wasn’t the only one who spoke with a teller.&lt;br /&gt;
5. He told the teller that he ‘wanted money’; didn’t that woman two windows over tell that other teller the very same thing?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Want to bet that if the robber has a chance to hold that woman hostage, he’ll do it?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is true that two people can both appear ‘guilty’.&lt;br /&gt;
It is not true that they both are.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is some kind of bizarro Political Attempt At Hostage Taking.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Suggest you watch the assholes in the BushCheney cabal a bit harder; you wouldn’t want to be in the same place, at the same time, with any of them. Because they’d claim in a heartbeat that you pulled the heist if they thought it would get them off free.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;These people are evil.&lt;br /&gt;
Wake up.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evidently, I’m less patient than phred on this thread.</p>
<p>Suppose that a robber enters a bank, quietly pulls a gun on a teller, and gets half a million (in 100s, 50s, and 20s), then walks out the door.  No gunfire, and no one but the teller, the alarm system, and the robber are aware of the heist at the time.  Two windows away, a woman requests cash from a teller by handing over a check from her personal savings account.  She leaves the bank with $250 cash in 20s and 50s on the heels of the gunman, completely oblivious of the heist. </p>
<p>Two minutes later, both cars are stopped by the cops.<br />
The robber then claims that:</p>
<p>1. He wasn’t the only one in the bank.<br />
2. Someone else also walked out with money!<br />
3. Someone else left the bank with 20s and 50s — just look! He can <em>prove</em> it — <em>that lady has to show her money</em>!<br />
4. He wasn’t the only one who spoke with a teller.<br />
5. He told the teller that he ‘wanted money’; didn’t that woman two windows over tell that other teller the very same thing?</p>
<p>Want to bet that if the robber has a chance to hold that woman hostage, he’ll do it?</p>
<p>It is true that two people can both appear ‘guilty’.<br />
It is not true that they both are.</p>
<p>This is some kind of bizarro Political Attempt At Hostage Taking.</p>
<p>Suggest you watch the assholes in the BushCheney cabal a bit harder; you wouldn’t want to be in the same place, at the same time, with any of them. Because they’d claim in a heartbeat that you pulled the heist if they thought it would get them off free.</p>
<p>These people are evil.<br />
Wake up.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155592</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 01:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/memo-to-wapo-torture-is-not-just-waterboarding/#comment-155592</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If you are really interested in accurately connecting dots, I highly recommend that you purchase a copy of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Deceit-Bush-Administration-Media/dp/0979176107&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;“Anatomy of Deceit”&lt;/a&gt; by Marcy Wheeler.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It has a stupendous series of Appendices, each of them devoted to a specific Timeline.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In addition, there are links to some of her Timelines on the right column of this blog.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Although Marcy’s book will not definitively answer your question(s) about Pelosi, it will make quite clear to you that the issues you raise about Pelosi are completely irrelevant for the Bigger Picture, and play right into the hands of those whose conduct has consistently shown that they do not have so much as a gnat’s regard for American’s system of laws and courts, its military heritage, economic stability, or legislative procedures.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s been my observation that when commenters show a genuine interest in getting up-to-speed, others around here are very helpful with tips and pointers.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you are really interested in accurately connecting dots, I highly recommend that you purchase a copy of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Deceit-Bush-Administration-Media/dp/0979176107" rel="nofollow">“Anatomy of Deceit”</a> by Marcy Wheeler.</p>
<p>It has a stupendous series of Appendices, each of them devoted to a specific Timeline.  </p>
<p>In addition, there are links to some of her Timelines on the right column of this blog.</p>
<p>Although Marcy’s book will not definitively answer your question(s) about Pelosi, it will make quite clear to you that the issues you raise about Pelosi are completely irrelevant for the Bigger Picture, and play right into the hands of those whose conduct has consistently shown that they do not have so much as a gnat’s regard for American’s system of laws and courts, its military heritage, economic stability, or legislative procedures.</p>
<p>It’s been my observation that when commenters show a genuine interest in getting up-to-speed, others around here are very helpful with tips and pointers.</p>
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