no hair on your ass ???

I’m a patient man

and you’re marked

I’m pretty sure you insulted me with your ignorant ranting, and we WILL straighten this out

And when the pictures of Abu Ghraib and other “interrogation” camps are declassified and produced in the next few days many more people will see what the real face of torture means. Cregan doesn’t seem to fathom that. He doesn’t realize that we executed Japanese Commanders for one or two cases of water boarding.

I absolutely concur that even a single case of using water boarding on an involuntarily prisoner is torture. To do it repeatedly when there is not any evidence that doing so will STOP an KNOWN imminent major terrorism attack goes beyond the sadistic.

if the dude has the balls to answer

thinks he’s gonna teach ME something about the Taliban and Afghanistan pre 2000 ??? guess again, bozo

most Americans couldn’t find “the Stans” on a map before 9-11. I ain’t one of em

but the torture issue is where I’m gonna disassemble his brain pan

unless somebody wants to intervene

Oh, and just to be clear, I DO have amoral objection to the commission of acts that most civilized people consider torture. The numbers don’t matter to me. Torturers should be prosecuted. I’m so happy that Russ Feingold is not going to let us “just move on”…

When I later read the memos, I was struck by how much the detainee experiences and memos matched.

But, that doesn’t fit with the viewpoint here, so it is tossed out with very little debate.

you seem to say this as if it were something bad

have I got that right ???

cuz I’m about to unload on your ass, and I wanna be sure I got this straight

you’re supporting torture, and commenting on how close the torture induced confession fits with reality, RIGHT ???

But now you are talking about the AZ testimony. Not KSM’s. You have been saying that the number is impossible, incredible far-fetched and inconsistent with what the detainees said.

I have just shown that there is no inconsistency at all with what is a) possible and b) what KSB said in his testimony to the IIRC. In fact I showed that with a two minute break between applications and with one hour sessions you could get almost a 100 times more “applications” that the IG Report indicated.

So much for this being “impossible”.

As to who said anything about a two minute break between applications? There is no statement as to how long between applications at all in either the memos or in the detainee statements. But I thought that the amount of time was within an upper range to allow the victim to clear his sinuses and air passages of water and to “come back” from the edge of death. Of course, applications of water might have had even shorter periods, or had longer breaks. That’s certainly suggested by claims that KSB withstood the longest periods of waterboarding before “breaking” (about 2 minutes). Certainly water wasn’t applied for the whole time of that, but at the same time it’s doubtful that it would have referred to a series of sessions. A session would not have “stopped” simply because KSM became cooperative. If he stopped in cooperating he would have been, again, inverted and waterboarded. In fact, that this happened is clear from his IIRC statements.

Once again, no contradiction.

KSM’s statements says there were 5 water boarding sessions of about an hour each. Each needs only 35 applications of water to reach 185. Let’s use the 10 second application rule. 35 x 10 seconds = 350 seconds. That’s a little under 6 minutes of total “application time”.

So that leaves 54 minutes for “rest/recovery/interrogation”…right? That’s about 1 minute 30 seconds each. But you could get lots of applications in under a minute. 10 seconds of water…stop…..cough, spasm, cough, “Please Don’t”…10 seconds of application…stop….”I’m dying, Please stop” cough, cough, gasp…10 seconds of application. Stop. “Okay, m***f****”, you ready to answer questions”….10 seconds of application. Stop…”Okay, okay. Help me!”…Not yet, you need to see Allah” 10 seconds of application. “Okay, I think he’s primed. Ask him some questions.”

All well under a minute.

See cregan, you’d have such fun, wouldn’t you.

I blame public schools

there is also the idea that ”critical thinking” is criticizing everything Obama does

once again, I blame publc schools

Mith…the question of number of times is important. Not because less is more moral–if you have a moral objection to the high pressure techniques, then number doesn’t matter. It is important because of all the wild speculation and conclusions many here are drawing from the number of times. In other words, they say the high number leads to many other inferences and conclusions and accusations. That is why the correct number is important.

But again, in a way, it is not important. Once the Taliban takes over Pakistan–a near certainty that even Clinton is worried about–we are in a whole new world.

We already are seeing a bit of it in Iraq. Not surprisingly, the suicide attacks picked up dramatically soon after the withdrawal policy was announced. They know Obama can be had. They smell the blood in the water, and they are going to force him to get out a lot faster than he says.

We are going to have a big test of which method works better. Kind of a practical experiment. Obviously, Obama is going to use the methods advocated here. We will see if they work. The answer won’t be hard to see.

I am hoping they do work. I am hoping the ACLU policies will keep us safe. If so, then it will be proven clearly for all time which of the two is right. There won’t need to be this debate.

Hmmm…isn’t that bozofilter a bit cannibalistic in your case?

That the torture supporters dispute the number of times reported in the official version from the previous administration by citing the ICRC report is interesting only in that they claim that the detainees were tortured LESS FREQUENTLY (not that they were not tortured). They are still admitting that torture took place.

They don’t quibble about if waterboarding was torture or not (probably because it has been recognized as such for several centuries – since the Spanish Inquisition at least). Furthermore, it is not the sole method of torture that was used, only the one that is most easily cited. They are playing games and distracting us from the real issue.

Torture is illegal. Perpetrators of torture from top to bottom need to be prosecuted.

This is not a policy dispute, this is a matter of law and facts. Anything aside from that is just mind games.