Comments on: Is There a 2003 Waterboarding Memo We’re Missing?

By: burqa

burqa — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:15:19 +0000

It’s a senior moment. She was at the interrogation of Mohammed Salah, an alleged (and now, I think, convicted) Hamas agent.

Just to get this answered - Salah was convicted of perjury in a case involving funneling money to Hamas. He got 22 months.

But more to the topic,

Michael Hayden said something that confused me today on Fox News. When asked whether he thought waterboarding is torture, he replied simply that DOJ had said it was not.
Question: Are you satisfied that waterboarding is not torture?
HAYDEN: I’m satisfied that the Justice Department, in a series of opinions — ‘02, ‘03, ‘05 — said that it was not. Now…

I would prefer if these people were not just asked if waterboarding is torture, but have the following quoted to them from the U.S. Army Intelligence and Interrogation Handbook, which says the Geneva Conventions and “… and US policy expressly prohibit acts of violence or intimidation, including physical or mental torture, threats, insults, or exposure to inhuman treatment as a means as an aid to interrogation.”
Then ask them if waterboarding meets those standards.
Just because something is not torture doesn’t mean it is within the law…

By: Nell

Nell — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:38:40 +0000

They never really wanted intelligence, then.

No kidding.

By: Nell

Nell — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:32:33 +0000

February 2003: CIA claims to have informed Intell leadership of torture tapes’ destruction; though SSCI has no records. [EW]

What the…? The tapes weren’t destroyed until 2005. What is this a reference to?

By: Nell

Nell — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:26:43 +0000

this idea is associated with the neocons

It’s associated with plenty of good old interventionist liberals, too, and paleoconservative hawks, and pretty much everyone who isn’t explicitly anti-imperialist. American exceptionalism is necessary to the worldview of all interventionists, to explain how it’s our right to do just about anything anywhere in the world, with the only permissible arguments against being prudential, utilitarian ones (”counterproductive”, “ineffective”).

By: Nell

Nell — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:16:24 +0000

‘drowning torture’ is short and accurate.

(And it’s ‘throes’, not ‘throws’, but who’s counting?) ;>

By: Rayne

Rayne — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:46:42 +0000

I see John Dickerson tweeted EW’s work:

jdickersonScore 1 for bloggers: information came out when a # of bloggers, including Marcy Wheeler of emptywheel, discovered it http://bit.ly/g0ekd

tho’ it’d be nice not if Dickerson didn’t use qualifier…who else ran the number before EW?

By: Palli

Palli — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:04:36 +0000

I think the POTUS is biding time, watching (probably nudging) reality come to light, knowing the pressure will build but professing indifference. This is an American problem, no president can fix it. All the parts of our culture: all the People, Congress, Judicial system must arrive at the same understanding that evil has been done. The superficiality of our media, the camouflage of our patriotic 8-year exceptionalism and the secrecy of these crimes makes a different environment than Nazi Germany or Apartheid South Africa. We all have to know that these criminal Americans are among us. Then the action will be taken not by a president but by a nation.

By: constantweader

constantweader — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:52:04 +0000

I like it when the Times picks up on one of my favorite blogger’s stories; I love it when they lead with the story. Congratulations, Marcy!

The Constant Weader at www.RealityChex.com

By: worldwidehappiness

worldwidehappiness — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 07:21:57 +0000

And there were massive protests in the lead up to war, so Bush was motivated.

KSM would hate Saddam so he would resist saying there was a link even if forced.

The torture tapes might have been erased partly because they were all full of lame questions that Bush wanted answered!

“Go on, tell us you are pals with Saddam and this will all be over.”

By: worldwidehappiness

worldwidehappiness — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 06:31:55 +0000

In thinking about why KSM was waterboarded so many times, I got to thinking about the timing as well. It was March, 2003–the same month we invaded Iraq. Was he waterboarded so many times in an attempt to extract a Saddam-9/11 link?

I reckon you are right. We know that Bush tortured to get his beliefs reinforced. Look at the Zubaida case:

“‘I said he was important,’ Bush said to Tenet at one of their daily meetings. ‘You’re not going to let me lose face on this, are you?’

“‘No Sir, Mr. President.’”

And straight after 9/11 Bush wanted security people to find a connection between Al Qaeda and Iraq.

And as Rayne pointed out, they ran with every bit of rubbish evidence they could find to support their propaganda for Iraq.

So it fits Bush’s profile.