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	<title>Comments on: Debunking the Torture Apologists&#8217; &#8220;Half the Intelligence&#8221; Claim</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/</link>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148680</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 01:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148680</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Maybe the Republican’s in the “Tea Bagging Movement” will finally realize that this could apply to them…and thank Lindsey Graham for it!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the Republican’s in the “Tea Bagging Movement” will finally realize that this could apply to them…and thank Lindsey Graham for it!</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148670</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 01:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;As was said in a Rumpole of the Bailey, only if you exclude the Christian churches from the definition of Christianity.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Jesus was tortured to death by Roman occupiers.  The image of his torture has been used for several purposes, principally the teaching that he intentionally sacrificed himself, like the sacrificial lamb, to rid us of our sins.  It’s also been described as unique, which might shock the tens of thousands of other victims crucified in imperial Rome’s efforts to “pacify” Palestine.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s a lesson that says his death meant more than his life and his teachings.  It’s a lesson that ignores the Christian churches’ propensity to make others sacrificial lambs in order to enforce uniformity of views and to maintain earthly power.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But you’re right in that I misread freep’s point about the Bushies’ position, adopted de facto by deniers like Rahm Emanuel, that what these torturers did could not shock the conscious.  Of course it does, which is why they went to such lengths to pretend it didn’t.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As was said in a Rumpole of the Bailey, only if you exclude the Christian churches from the definition of Christianity.  </p>
<p>Jesus was tortured to death by Roman occupiers.  The image of his torture has been used for several purposes, principally the teaching that he intentionally sacrificed himself, like the sacrificial lamb, to rid us of our sins.  It’s also been described as unique, which might shock the tens of thousands of other victims crucified in imperial Rome’s efforts to “pacify” Palestine.</p>
<p>That’s a lesson that says his death meant more than his life and his teachings.  It’s a lesson that ignores the Christian churches’ propensity to make others sacrificial lambs in order to enforce uniformity of views and to maintain earthly power.</p>
<p>But you’re right in that I misread freep’s point about the Bushies’ position, adopted de facto by deniers like Rahm Emanuel, that what these torturers did could not shock the conscious.  Of course it does, which is why they went to such lengths to pretend it didn’t.</p>
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		<title>By: RichardKanePA</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148652</link>
		<dc:creator>RichardKanePA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148652</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I wish people who oppose torture would get personal mentioning real people and how they got their lives ruined by US torture such as in the below links about a 7 and 9-year-old-tortured,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/17619#comment-49803&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.capitolhillblue.com.....ment-49803&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/4856&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/4856&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Please everyone opposed to torture, let’s give the human side.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;RichardKanePA&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish people who oppose torture would get personal mentioning real people and how they got their lives ruined by US torture such as in the below links about a 7 and 9-year-old-tortured,<br /><a href="http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/17619#comment-49803" rel="nofollow">http://www.capitolhillblue.com&#8230;..ment-49803</a><br /><a href="http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/4856" rel="nofollow">http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/4856</a></p>
<p>Please everyone opposed to torture, let’s give the human side.</p>
<p>RichardKanePA</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148647</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148647</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Um, seems to me that Christ being tortured to death would prove Freep’s point, not disprove it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, seems to me that Christ being tortured to death would prove Freep’s point, not disprove it.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148638</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 21:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148638</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Nice correction.  I find it useful to remember he was but one of thousands.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Lurking moderator, I suggest that freep has earned another timeout in the penalty box. Its diction remains awful - not itself a disqualifier by any means - and abusive, and its attacks are personal and often grossly factually wrong.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice correction.  I find it useful to remember he was but one of thousands.</p>
<p>Lurking moderator, I suggest that freep has earned another timeout in the penalty box. Its diction remains awful &#8211; not itself a disqualifier by any means &#8211; and abusive, and its attacks are personal and often grossly factually wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: tjbs</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148619</link>
		<dc:creator>tjbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 19:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148619</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Christ wAS TORTURED TO DEATH .&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christ wAS TORTURED TO DEATH .</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148615</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 19:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148615</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.flickr.com/photos/hinkelstone/2213683339/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here’s&lt;/a&gt; the web address on flickr.com for the figure of Prometheus.  The summary of the myth of Prometheus from &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus&lt;/a&gt; :&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“He was a champion of human-kind known for his wily intelligence, who stole fire from Zeus and gave it to mortals.[2] Zeus then punished him for his crime by having him bound to a rock while a great eagle ate his liver every day only to have it grow back to be eaten again the next day. His myth has been treated by a number of ancient sources, in which Prometheus is credited with – or blamed for, but credited nonetheless – playing a pivotal role in the early history of humankind.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/hinkelstone/2213683339/" rel="nofollow">Here’s</a> the web address on flickr.com for the figure of Prometheus.  The summary of the myth of Prometheus from <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus</a> :</p>
<p>“He was a champion of human-kind known for his wily intelligence, who stole fire from Zeus and gave it to mortals.[2] Zeus then punished him for his crime by having him bound to a rock while a great eagle ate his liver every day only to have it grow back to be eaten again the next day. His myth has been treated by a number of ancient sources, in which Prometheus is credited with – or blamed for, but credited nonetheless – playing a pivotal role in the early history of humankind.”</p>
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		<title>By: acquarius74</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148609</link>
		<dc:creator>acquarius74</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Marcy, wherever did you find that horrifyingly perfect illustration?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marcy, wherever did you find that horrifyingly perfect illustration?</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148608</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148608</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;hey, dontch remember, I gave a live preformance in the “lawn burning” thread&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;we don need no stinkin youtube&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I guess I ain’t no Susan Boyle, huh (an people been tellin me they see the resemblance, go figure)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;but that was a long time ago in innertoobz years&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;has he been back since ???&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;ya gotta be a pretty depraved person, who was birthed by a disgusting scab of a mother, to defend torture, especially if ya claim to be a christian (ain’t it funny how quickly christian morals slip away from some people when they’re scared)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;so I figured my troll would prolly be here at some point, and I get a kick out of his delusions&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I been reduced to readin people slapping george will with a clue stick (I don’t read george, just the people trying to straighten that crooked fucker out)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m gittin desperate here (I got a wingnut jones, what can I say)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;but I did learn that if you wear more than one denim clothing item at a time, you’re wearin a “Canadian Tuxedo”, so laughing at george will isn’t a complete waste of time&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey, dontch remember, I gave a live preformance in the “lawn burning” thread</p>
<p><em>we don need no stinkin youtube</em></p>
<p>I guess I ain’t no Susan Boyle, huh (an people been tellin me they see the resemblance, go figure)</p>
<p>but that was a long time ago in innertoobz years</p>
<p>has he been back since ???</p>
<p>ya gotta be a pretty depraved person, who was birthed by a disgusting scab of a mother, to defend torture, especially if ya claim to be a christian (ain’t it funny how quickly christian morals slip away from some people when they’re scared)</p>
<p>so I figured my troll would prolly be here at some point, and I get a kick out of his delusions</p>
<p>I been reduced to readin people slapping george will with a clue stick (I don’t read george, just the people trying to straighten that crooked fucker out)</p>
<p>I’m gittin desperate here (I got a wingnut jones, what can I say)</p>
<p>but I did learn that if you wear more than one denim clothing item at a time, you’re wearin a “Canadian Tuxedo”, so laughing at george will isn’t a complete waste of time</p>
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		<title>By: Valtin</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/debunking-the-torture-apologists-half-the-intelligence-claim/#comment-148607</link>
		<dc:creator>Valtin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;112 - Rayne, this is a huge admission. On the record now. It is a defeat for the anti-torture, pro-prosecutions crowd. There’s no prettifying it. If we had to work hard before, we’ll have to battle Obama’s popularity directly now.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama has committed his first crime against humanity, i.e., protecting torturers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nice face. Nice family. But unless he reverses immediately, he will end up in the dock, too.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>112 &#8211; Rayne, this is a huge admission. On the record now. It is a defeat for the anti-torture, pro-prosecutions crowd. There’s no prettifying it. If we had to work hard before, we’ll have to battle Obama’s popularity directly now.</p>
<p>Obama has committed his first crime against humanity, i.e., protecting torturers.</p>
<p>Nice face. Nice family. But unless he reverses immediately, he will end up in the dock, too.</p>
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