Comments on: The Torture Memos

By: pdaly

pdaly — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:47:35 +0000

Thanks.

You know, I had always assumed I knew what MKULTRA was about, but I realized after googling I was way off base. Had no idea the CIA was lacing drinks and watching the effects on unsuspecting victims.

I watched the Manchurian Candidate (original not the remake) and thought the psychological assumptions of brainwashing a person to react to predetermined cues absurd. No idea that the military was researching exactly that scenario.

By: pdaly

pdaly — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:44:57 +0000

Thanks, that distinction is helpful.
I had assumed that the WH would have asked for clarification first before ordering CIA to come up with a list of torture techniques that are not torture. And I thought the WH would have received a similar answer that CIA received. Maybe they received a carbon copy of OLC’s memo to Rizzo, too?

OLC’s two memos (Yoo/Bybee memo to the WH Counsel and Yoo/Bybee memo to the CIA Counsel) on the same day Aug 01, 2002 must have been a “banner day” for OLC. Lots of fun, prim answers to questions from the Executive Branch.

By: Leen

Leen — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:57:58 +0000

in that August 2 memo they state that water boarding works 100% of the time? Is that true?

By: Mary

Mary — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:57:18 +0000

152 - yes, that’s in one of Bradbury’s 2005 memos. I think it’s the one that kind of tracks the original August memo on authorizing specific acts committed against specific detainees. It’s in a discussion of waterboarding and how it is going to be performed.

Bradbury drops a footnote about the Inspector General’s report and we learn that Rizzo has lied to the OLC about how the waterboarding is being done (it is not being done like a SERE waterboarding but instead in a much more extreme way) per the Inspector General’s report. Bradbury even refers to someone saying something to the effect of ‘hell yes it was different, it was for real’ So he goes on to say, look - I’m Obama, I don’t look back. OMS folks say they have stepped in and rearranged how the waterboarding is being done and it’s not currently being done to anyone anyway and so let’s ignore prior lies and just say that SERE waterboarding is AOK and let’s also pretend we can rely on everything else Rizzo said for all the rest of our analysis being true, even though we have the IG report in front of us and he clearly was not telling the truth.

By: Mary

Mary — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:49:24 +0000

147 - the earlier memo is a rambling exercise in what the word “torture” means to the United States Department of Justice. It would be extremely difficult for anyone to claim “reliance” on this memo (good faith or otherwise) because it simply does not operate off of any particular fact setting.

The August memo linked above is “reliance” memo, giving specific facts about specific detainees and authorizing specific actions to be taken. I’m not sure how you want to refer to them (they are all torture memos imo) but you newly released Aug 2002 memo is a menu of specifically authorized torture for specific persons.

By: Leen

Leen — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:05:32 +0000

Bush’s Tortured Logic
http://www.noquarterusa.net/bl.....red-logic/

“Finding weak legal arguments to justify immoral activity is the work of fools and knaves.

I applaud the ACLU for securing these documents. It is a good first step.

Unfortunately, Barack “Mr. Constitutional Scholar” Obama left the door for future abuses? Why? No one who worked for the CIA will be punished for carrying out these actions.

Ironically the U.S. Department of Justice this week was allowing a former Nazi death camp guard to be deported back to Poland to face possible charges for abuses he committed while carrying out the orders of superiors. Hell, while we are giving everyone a pass for illegal, immoral activity carried out for what the leaders considered to be a good purpose, let’s let Demanjuk go. At least we would be consistent.

Rule of law my ass.”

By: 4jkb4ia

4jkb4ia — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:53:46 +0000

I will now apologize to Mary because it does seem chillingly apt that I will never get to this before Yom HaShoah.

By: Leen

Leen — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:52:18 +0000

What happens to a peasant if they destroy evidence?

By: Leen

Leen — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:49:48 +0000

What the hell does this mean? I am deeply disappointed in Obama. What does he mean when he says “no one is above the law”? A complete lie coming out of his mouth. A complete lie.

“reflection not retribution” Where is the Justice?

Can you imagine some Judge saying this to a rape victim, holocaust survivors? “this is a time for reflection not retribution” Completely absurd

By: worldwidehappiness

worldwidehappiness — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:32:15 +0000

Obama said:

“This is a time for reflection, not retribution.”

It takes a special kind of person to order these things and to do these kinds of things.

From Deliverance:

Mountain Man: I bet you can squeal like a pig. Weeeeeeee!
Bobby: Weee!
Mountain Man: Weee!
Bobby: Weee!
-
Mountain Man: What do you want to do now?
Toothless Man: [grinning] He’s got a real pretty mouth on him, don’t he?
Mountain Man: Ain’t that the truth.
Toothless Man: [to Ed] You gonna do some prayin’ for me, boy. And you better pray real good.