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	<title>Comments on: Most Convictions Against Siegelman Upheld</title>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/comment-page-1/#comment-140289</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 20:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;no “bow” in the 11th hour ?  Could you be wrong?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no “bow” in the 11th hour ?  Could you be wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/comment-page-1/#comment-140193</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 02:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;No, first, we got the majority back in 2002.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And then it became clear that he was the guy who leaked TS info to Fox news. I’m not sure how long after they booted him from SSCI. But when the GOP got the majority back in 2002, Pat Roberts became Chair.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Though from th elooks of it he ditched SSCI because Banking opened up (you can only be Chair in one place). So maybe it wasn’t that he was a sieve when it came to warmongering information.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, first, we got the majority back in 2002.</p>
<p>And then it became clear that he was the guy who leaked TS info to Fox news. I’m not sure how long after they booted him from SSCI. But when the GOP got the majority back in 2002, Pat Roberts became Chair.</p>
<p>Though from th elooks of it he ditched SSCI because Banking opened up (you can only be Chair in one place). So maybe it wasn’t that he was a sieve when it came to warmongering information.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/comment-page-1/#comment-140188</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 01:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;argh. of course it’s not sustainable. it’s not about sustainable. it’s about getting while the getting is good - and the evidence is that in many many cases fraud has been involved. it’s about mindblowing incentives for criminal enterprise and there is no reason that i know of to think that aig is not part of that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>argh. of course it’s not sustainable. it’s not about sustainable. it’s about getting while the getting is good &#8211; and the evidence is that in many many cases fraud has been involved. it’s about mindblowing incentives for criminal enterprise and there is no reason that i know of to think that aig is not part of that.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/comment-page-1/#comment-140187</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 00:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/#comment-140187</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Too much complexity, too much activity with so many exceptions that any actor with bad intentions can game the system very effectively.  And it’s interesting that this has been so enabled by the Plantation Caucus; as someone pointed out to me recently, historically (early 1800s) the South was far more culturally wedded to maintaining ‘aristocracy’ than the rest of the nation.  (Not meant as a slam against the South, but more to highlight that even now the US does still have regional differences, and the South is the only remaining GOP stronghold.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;a heady mix of arbitrage capitalism and neo-feudalism&lt;/strong&gt; and the principles in this move are bereft of any concern for a fair system where contractual principles of equal bargaining power are sought as being ideal. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But when AIG was losing $450,000 per minute while we bailed them out, I’d say the system doesn’t appear to be sustainable.  The one thing that I find fascinating is to hear ‘lefty urban’ friends and ‘conservative Christians’ both question what this nation claims to value: making money on Wall Street.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think there’s an emerging discussion about what ‘value’ is, and what should be ‘valued’.  Why can’t a first grade teacher earn a paycheck that allows them to buy a home, while someone writing bogus paper on Wall Street claims to ‘add value’, but the schoolteacher is the one bailing out the bonus-inflated Wall Streeter.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not sustainable.&lt;br /&gt;
And I don’t see today’s 20-somethings being willing to underwrite that level of stupid.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too much complexity, too much activity with so many exceptions that any actor with bad intentions can game the system very effectively.  And it’s interesting that this has been so enabled by the Plantation Caucus; as someone pointed out to me recently, historically (early 1800s) the South was far more culturally wedded to maintaining ‘aristocracy’ than the rest of the nation.  (Not meant as a slam against the South, but more to highlight that even now the US does still have regional differences, and the South is the only remaining GOP stronghold.)</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>a heady mix of arbitrage capitalism and neo-feudalism</strong> and the principles in this move are bereft of any concern for a fair system where contractual principles of equal bargaining power are sought as being ideal. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>But when AIG was losing $450,000 per minute while we bailed them out, I’d say the system doesn’t appear to be sustainable.  The one thing that I find fascinating is to hear ‘lefty urban’ friends and ‘conservative Christians’ both question what this nation claims to value: making money on Wall Street.  </p>
<p>I think there’s an emerging discussion about what ‘value’ is, and what should be ‘valued’.  Why can’t a first grade teacher earn a paycheck that allows them to buy a home, while someone writing bogus paper on Wall Street claims to ‘add value’, but the schoolteacher is the one bailing out the bonus-inflated Wall Streeter.  </p>
<p>Not sustainable.<br />
And I don’t see today’s 20-somethings being willing to underwrite that level of stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: MadDog</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/comment-page-1/#comment-140185</link>
		<dc:creator>MadDog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 00:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/#comment-140185</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;OT - Via &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/03/aclu_cia_confirms_12_destroyed_videotapes_depicted.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;TPM&lt;/a&gt;, news from the ACLU on those 92 destroyed torture videotapes:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;(Editor’s Note: This statement was released by the ACLU on March 6, 2009)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;ACLU: CIA Confirms 12 Destroyed Videotapes Depicted “Enhanced Interrogation Methods”&lt;br /&gt;
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE&lt;br /&gt;
March 6, 2009&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;NEW YORK - As part of an American Civil Liberties Union lawsuit seeking information on detainee abuse, the government today provided new details about the content of interrogation videotapes destroyed by the CIA, specifically that 12 depict so-called “enhanced interrogation techniques.” In documents filed in a New York federal court, the government also announced it would produce a complete list of summaries, transcripts or memoranda related to the videotapes by March 20. However, an inventory of the tapes provided to the court was nearly entirely redacted.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Note that the TPM links to the newest documents don’t work, but these do:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/030609/hellerstein_letter.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Copy of the government’s letter to the court&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/030609/videotape_inventory.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Copy of the redacted videotape inventory&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/030609/paragraph_77.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Redacted description of the tapes&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT &#8211; Via <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/03/aclu_cia_confirms_12_destroyed_videotapes_depicted.php" rel="nofollow">TPM</a>, news from the ACLU on those 92 destroyed torture videotapes:</p>
<blockquote><p>(Editor’s Note: This statement was released by the ACLU on March 6, 2009)</p>
<p>ACLU: CIA Confirms 12 Destroyed Videotapes Depicted “Enhanced Interrogation Methods”<br />
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE<br />
March 6, 2009</p>
<p>NEW YORK &#8211; As part of an American Civil Liberties Union lawsuit seeking information on detainee abuse, the government today provided new details about the content of interrogation videotapes destroyed by the CIA, specifically that 12 depict so-called “enhanced interrogation techniques.” In documents filed in a New York federal court, the government also announced it would produce a complete list of summaries, transcripts or memoranda related to the videotapes by March 20. However, an inventory of the tapes provided to the court was nearly entirely redacted.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Note that the TPM links to the newest documents don’t work, but these do:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/030609/hellerstein_letter.pdf" rel="nofollow">Copy of the government’s letter to the court</a><br /><a href="http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/030609/videotape_inventory.pdf" rel="nofollow">Copy of the redacted videotape inventory</a><br /><a href="http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/030609/paragraph_77.pdf" rel="nofollow">Redacted description of the tapes</a></p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/comment-page-1/#comment-140184</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 00:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/#comment-140184</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;When it comes to defenses and arguments, the rule is that you raise them or waive them.  Are there ways to attempt to raise them at this point? Yes.  Are they methods that would lead a rational legal mind to think there was much chance for success?  No.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When it comes to defenses and arguments, the rule is that you raise them or waive them.  Are there ways to attempt to raise them at this point? Yes.  Are they methods that would lead a rational legal mind to think there was much chance for success?  No.</p>
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		<title>By: lllphd</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/comment-page-1/#comment-140183</link>
		<dc:creator>lllphd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 00:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;got the impression from scott that the appeals court could not review those issues as they were not part of the original case.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>got the impression from scott that the appeals court could not review those issues as they were not part of the original case.</p>
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		<title>By: rkilowatt</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/comment-page-1/#comment-140181</link>
		<dc:creator>rkilowatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 00:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/#comment-140181</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;goto &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
In left column, as:&lt;br /&gt;
“Another View&lt;br /&gt;
TPM Reader SG’s take on the derivatives, bankruptcy and AIG issue …”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>goto <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com</a><br />
In left column, as:<br />
“Another View<br />
TPM Reader SG’s take on the derivatives, bankruptcy and AIG issue …”</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/comment-page-1/#comment-140177</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 23:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I am encouraged that there is much more about the Siegelman matter that has not been reviewed yet.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Dude, arguments not made on appeal are generally waived.  I would not be encouraged if I were you.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And for everybody else feeling all rosy and optimistic about Siegelman, I am quite sorry to tell you that is quite misplaced.  The chances of an 11th en banc reversal are nearly nil, and the chance of the Supremes accepting cert are below that.  You are dreaming if you think otherwise.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>I am encouraged that there is much more about the Siegelman matter that has not been reviewed yet.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Dude, arguments not made on appeal are generally waived.  I would not be encouraged if I were you.</p>
<p>And for everybody else feeling all rosy and optimistic about Siegelman, I am quite sorry to tell you that is quite misplaced.  The chances of an 11th en banc reversal are nearly nil, and the chance of the Supremes accepting cert are below that.  You are dreaming if you think otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/comment-page-1/#comment-140176</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 23:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/03/06/most-convictions-against-siegelman-upheld/#comment-140176</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;all the most egregious problems with the original trial were not even presented to this court, so they could comfortably ignore them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yeah, well that is on Siegelman, not the court.  Cant beat the court up if the appellant’s lawyers didn’t brief properly.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>all the most egregious problems with the original trial were not even presented to this court, so they could comfortably ignore them.</p>
<p>Yeah, well that is on Siegelman, not the court.  Cant beat the court up if the appellant’s lawyers didn’t brief properly.</p>
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