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	<title>Comments on: Holder on State Secrets</title>
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		<title>By: spoonful</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132332</link>
		<dc:creator>spoonful</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 00:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132332</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Certain rulings on State secrets will be used as gifts which the new administration can then give to the neo-cons in order to “unite” the country.  Same thing with executive privilege.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certain rulings on State secrets will be used as gifts which the new administration can then give to the neo-cons in order to “unite” the country.  Same thing with executive privilege.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132304</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 23:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;15 - I think in a formal setting, there absolutely has to be a definition of significant and you are correct.  I would not file a pleading, execute a contract, or give direction to other counsel that used “significant” as a qualifier without a definitional reference.  In a letter that is attempting to be evasive (possibly for good purposes, although I doubt it) or in correspondence settings, I think it’s a waffle word that gets used a lot.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree that there should not be an issue of thousands and thousands of cases with state secrets invocations, and also that in many of the “more numerous” instances, it would involve families of related cases (like the state privacy law cases or the wiretap cases etc.) where numerous invocations may all be based upon one departmental determination and aspect.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>15 &#8211; I think in a formal setting, there absolutely has to be a definition of significant and you are correct.  I would not file a pleading, execute a contract, or give direction to other counsel that used “significant” as a qualifier without a definitional reference.  In a letter that is attempting to be evasive (possibly for good purposes, although I doubt it) or in correspondence settings, I think it’s a waffle word that gets used a lot.</p>
<p>I agree that there should not be an issue of thousands and thousands of cases with state secrets invocations, and also that in many of the “more numerous” instances, it would involve families of related cases (like the state privacy law cases or the wiretap cases etc.) where numerous invocations may all be based upon one departmental determination and aspect.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132288</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132288</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Kay Bailey will vote no on Holder over gun control,the recent supreme court decision notwithstanding.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;How did she vote of Gonzo and Mukasey?  Plz, tell me she’s 3 for 3.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kay Bailey will vote no on Holder over gun control,the recent supreme court decision notwithstanding.  </p>
<p>How did she vote of Gonzo and Mukasey?  Plz, tell me she’s 3 for 3.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132285</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Kay Bailey will vote no on Holder over gun control.  How did she vote of Gonzo and Mukasey, the recent supreme court decision notwithstanding.    Plz, tell me she’s 3 for 3.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kay Bailey will vote no on Holder over gun control.  How did she vote of Gonzo and Mukasey, the recent supreme court decision notwithstanding.    Plz, tell me she’s 3 for 3.</p>
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		<title>By: scribe</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132282</link>
		<dc:creator>scribe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132282</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Really.  In how many cases do you think the government has asserted the state secrets defense?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He does not have to look at all the thousands of cases in which the United States is a party.  All he has to say is “Minion:  search for assertion of state secrets in a case.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He’ll get a list likely less than 100 captions long.  Probably less than 50.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Why dontcha think some more about what I said about using “Significant”?  The way I ask my questions is:&lt;br /&gt;
“Did any X happen?”&lt;br /&gt;
“Yes”&lt;br /&gt;
“How much X happened?”&lt;br /&gt;
“A lot.”&lt;br /&gt;
“How much is ‘a lot’?”&lt;br /&gt;
What makes you say ‘a lot’?”&lt;br /&gt;
“How much would be ‘not a lot’?”&lt;br /&gt;
or&lt;br /&gt;
“An insignificant amount.”&lt;br /&gt;
“How much would be significant to you?”&lt;br /&gt;
“Is there a line between ’significant’ and ‘insignificant’ or is there what is commonly called a grey area, i.e., where one person might say ’significant’ and another ‘insignificant’?”&lt;br /&gt;
“Why do you draw the line between ’significant’ and ‘insignificant’ where you do?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And so on.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If the questioner qualifies the question with “significant”, prior to tying the answerer into making a definition of it, then none of those clarifications I’ve just exemplified can even be asked of the witness, and you leave the witness acres of wiggle room to roam around in, bullshitting all the time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Objective, objective, objective.  Always objective.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really.  In how many cases do you think the government has asserted the state secrets defense?</p>
<p>He does not have to look at all the thousands of cases in which the United States is a party.  All he has to say is “Minion:  search for assertion of state secrets in a case.”</p>
<p>He’ll get a list likely less than 100 captions long.  Probably less than 50.</p>
<p>Why dontcha think some more about what I said about using “Significant”?  The way I ask my questions is:<br />
“Did any X happen?”<br />
“Yes”<br />
“How much X happened?”<br />
“A lot.”<br />
“How much is ‘a lot’?”<br />
What makes you say ‘a lot’?”<br />
“How much would be ‘not a lot’?”<br />
or<br />
“An insignificant amount.”<br />
“How much would be significant to you?”<br />
“Is there a line between ’significant’ and ‘insignificant’ or is there what is commonly called a grey area, i.e., where one person might say ’significant’ and another ‘insignificant’?”<br />
“Why do you draw the line between ’significant’ and ‘insignificant’ where you do?”</p>
<p>And so on.</p>
<p>If the questioner qualifies the question with “significant”, prior to tying the answerer into making a definition of it, then none of those clarifications I’ve just exemplified can even be asked of the witness, and you leave the witness acres of wiggle room to roam around in, bullshitting all the time.</p>
<p>Objective, objective, objective.  Always objective.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132277</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132277</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Leahy commented on the anonymous hold followed by a unanimous yes vote for holder out of the committee but yielded before he concluded hid point.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leahy commented on the anonymous hold followed by a unanimous yes vote for holder out of the committee but yielded before he concluded hid point.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132275</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132275</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Vis-vis the dr. thread below, can we move to end the “distinguished” senator adjective? “senator” should do the trick and unless anyone has ever referred to another as “undistinguished” senator then it clearly unnecessary.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vis-vis the dr. thread below, can we move to end the “distinguished” senator adjective? “senator” should do the trick and unless anyone has ever referred to another as “undistinguished” senator then it clearly unnecessary.</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132274</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132274</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just put up a post on Bond’s statements.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just put up a post on Bond’s statements.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132272</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132272</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Shorter Kit Bond: Holder assured me in a way that wasn’t umm improper err umm.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Someone tell Sessions Obama will alow gays in the military and obviate the  Solomon amendment.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shorter Kit Bond: Holder assured me in a way that wasn’t umm improper err umm.  </p>
<p>Someone tell Sessions Obama will alow gays in the military and obviate the  Solomon amendment.</p>
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		<title>By: plunger</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132271</link>
		<dc:creator>plunger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/02/02/holder-on-state-secrets/#comment-132271</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Carrier Liability Provisions was the focus of the Bond/Holder second meeting.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Confusing and conflicting statements have come out in the press.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bond’s goal was to use his ten minutes to “set the record straight now.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Claims there was no quid pro quo (my words) to compel Bond’s nomination.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Holder’s public answer to Senator Kyle re: the FISA/Telecom non-prosecution stance was said to be the basis for the private conversation between Holder and Bond resulting in the appearance of a quid pro quo for Bond’s “yes” vote - as reported by the press.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bond just made the ridiculous statement that “circumstances can’t change” significantly enough to bring a suit now, given that the subject events and circumstances “happened in the past.”  (the same could be said of all crimes)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The implication is that any future revelations or documents evidencing blackmail, fraud or treason should be ignored by Holder, simply because the events to which they pertain already occurred and were glossed over, buried, created a serious problem for one of our closest (Israeli) allies, or otherwise ruled to rise to a level worthy of prosecution.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carrier Liability Provisions was the focus of the Bond/Holder second meeting.</p>
<p>“Confusing and conflicting statements have come out in the press.”</p>
<p>Bond’s goal was to use his ten minutes to “set the record straight now.”</p>
<p>Claims there was no quid pro quo (my words) to compel Bond’s nomination.</p>
<p>Holder’s public answer to Senator Kyle re: the FISA/Telecom non-prosecution stance was said to be the basis for the private conversation between Holder and Bond resulting in the appearance of a quid pro quo for Bond’s “yes” vote &#8211; as reported by the press.</p>
<p>Bond just made the ridiculous statement that “circumstances can’t change” significantly enough to bring a suit now, given that the subject events and circumstances “happened in the past.”  (the same could be said of all crimes)</p>
<p>The implication is that any future revelations or documents evidencing blackmail, fraud or treason should be ignored by Holder, simply because the events to which they pertain already occurred and were glossed over, buried, created a serious problem for one of our closest (Israeli) allies, or otherwise ruled to rise to a level worthy of prosecution.</p>
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