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	<title>Comments on: The Squabble over Subpoenas in Springfield</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/</link>
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		<title>By: timbo</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/comment-page-1/#comment-123374</link>
		<dc:creator>timbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 06:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/#comment-123374</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ya know, the problem with this country is that we’d rather have the political and legal uncertainty of having no investigations and no impeachments and always deferring to whatever one branch of government or the other wants…um, actually, what the executive branch wants when you really look at it…rather than, you know, have multiple investigations occur simultaneously that might converge and drown the rats before they can sink the ship.  The problem is we seem to be unwilling to stop the rats from leaving the ship and they’re gnawing holes in the hull at an alarming rate.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Fitzgerald is given a little more credit than I think he’s due.  He’s not above being political.  He has certainly done so in this instance.  While it might be a courtesy to him to not have subpoenaed testimony, public or private, the fact that the Illinois Legislature is not moving quickly forward towards getting that testimony shows a deferring to party hackery rather towards getting at the truth of these allegations.  If a crime has occurred, why isn’t the legislature moving forward full steam to impeach the governor?  It’s very simple.  If he’s a criminal, guilty of trying to sell a U.S. Senate seat for remuneration, he should be impeached and removed…not coddled till the US Attorney can get around to it.  Seriously, the weak-kneed morality of this country is coming home to roost big time.  No one wants to take responsibility for cleaning up the mess and they want to defer it as long as possible to avoid “unforseen political consequences”?!  WTF is wrong with this country?!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Answer: deferment of responsibility.  Period.  That’s it gentlemen.  The lights will go out soon if some folks don’t step up and clean this political “system” up.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya know, the problem with this country is that we’d rather have the political and legal uncertainty of having no investigations and no impeachments and always deferring to whatever one branch of government or the other wants…um, actually, what the executive branch wants when you really look at it…rather than, you know, have multiple investigations occur simultaneously that might converge and drown the rats before they can sink the ship.  The problem is we seem to be unwilling to stop the rats from leaving the ship and they’re gnawing holes in the hull at an alarming rate.</p>
<p>Fitzgerald is given a little more credit than I think he’s due.  He’s not above being political.  He has certainly done so in this instance.  While it might be a courtesy to him to not have subpoenaed testimony, public or private, the fact that the Illinois Legislature is not moving quickly forward towards getting that testimony shows a deferring to party hackery rather towards getting at the truth of these allegations.  If a crime has occurred, why isn’t the legislature moving forward full steam to impeach the governor?  It’s very simple.  If he’s a criminal, guilty of trying to sell a U.S. Senate seat for remuneration, he should be impeached and removed…not coddled till the US Attorney can get around to it.  Seriously, the weak-kneed morality of this country is coming home to roost big time.  No one wants to take responsibility for cleaning up the mess and they want to defer it as long as possible to avoid “unforseen political consequences”?!  WTF is wrong with this country?!</p>
<p>Answer: deferment of responsibility.  Period.  That’s it gentlemen.  The lights will go out soon if some folks don’t step up and clean this political “system” up.</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/comment-page-1/#comment-123349</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 03:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/#comment-123349</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I think the smart republicans (such as they are…:o) ) are perfectly willing to have this strung out until we’re in the middle of confirmation hearings for Obama’s nominations, when the fact that Obama’s nomination for A.G. played fast and loose with the truth about how hard he worked to get Bubba to pardon Marc Rich.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;if that’s the case, the “smart” repuglitards got fucked by presnit bunnypants and a dude with a dead squirrel on his head …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;repuglitards wanna talk about Holder and Marc Rich ???&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Subpoena kkkarl rove, and let him splain the difference between toussie and rich&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the repuglitards like political theater ???&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;subpoena presnit bunny pants, and let HIM splain what the fuck he was doing&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;imagine a little conversation:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;now ain’t the time to play the blame game ???&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;why the FUCK are we talking  about holder then ???&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;you can see where I’m goin here ???&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;everything kkkarl serves up can be exploded in his fat fucking face&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the people of America have a right to answers mister rove ???&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;you are PERFECTY RIGHT mister rove, here’s the book, step up, take the oath, and give America some answers&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;if we do this right, the very PHRASE “I’ve got some questions” will make every repuglitard who hears it SHIT HIS PANTS&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;we don’t have to ask the repuglitards for permission to issue a single fucking subpoena&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m thinkin questions ain’t their friends …&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think the smart republicans (such as they are…:o) ) are perfectly willing to have this strung out until we’re in the middle of confirmation hearings for Obama’s nominations, when the fact that Obama’s nomination for A.G. played fast and loose with the truth about how hard he worked to get Bubba to pardon Marc Rich.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>if that’s the case, the “smart” repuglitards got fucked by presnit bunnypants and a dude with a dead squirrel on his head …</p>
<p>repuglitards wanna talk about Holder and Marc Rich ???</p>
<p>Subpoena kkkarl rove, and let him splain the difference between toussie and rich</p>
<p>the repuglitards like political theater ???</p>
<p>subpoena presnit bunny pants, and let HIM splain what the fuck he was doing</p>
<p>imagine a little conversation:</p>
<p>now ain’t the time to play the blame game ???</p>
<p>why the FUCK are we talking  about holder then ???</p>
<p>you can see where I’m goin here ???</p>
<p>everything kkkarl serves up can be exploded in his fat fucking face</p>
<p>the people of America have a right to answers mister rove ???</p>
<p>you are PERFECTY RIGHT mister rove, here’s the book, step up, take the oath, and give America some answers</p>
<p>if we do this right, the very PHRASE “I’ve got some questions” will make every repuglitard who hears it SHIT HIS PANTS</p>
<p>we don’t have to ask the repuglitards for permission to issue a single fucking subpoena</p>
<p>I’m thinkin questions ain’t their friends …</p>
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		<title>By: tanbark</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/comment-page-1/#comment-123334</link>
		<dc:creator>tanbark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/#comment-123334</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“…does Fitz realize that his making Blago look like a sympathetic figure is the sign of a major fuckup???”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Uhhh…I’d say, sorta-kinda.  The problem is, that what’s on those tapes; the nuances of Emanuel’s conversations, in particular, is very much in play, media-wise.   And with Fitz now offering to cherry-pick them (with what appears to be the clear intention of helping the committee dealing with the possible impeachment of Blago, get on with it…) it’s hard to keep that halo bright and shiny.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There are so many angles to this, and so many agendas, that it’s hard to decide just what has “priority”.  I think there have already been snippets of it leaked, or maybe, released, and that’s what the legislature based that 113-zip vote on.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My personal 2c is this:   I think Emanuel bargained a little with Blago.  Probably not directly enough to be indictable (Hell, is BLAGO indictable?  We don’t even know that, yet.) but enough that, if that comes out, he needs to be inspecting transaxles on GrayDogs, instead of running Obama’s staff.  I understand that we don’t want Obama tarred with this, but Emanuel is not what you’d call a rockin’ progressive, who went to bat for us in the tough times.  I don’t think that Obama should spend much capital, if any, protecting him.  Push come to shove, it shouldn’t be hard to find an upgrade. :o)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I also think that Jarrett’s rather timely withdrawal of her name for consideration for the seat had nothing to do with her suddenly discovering that she’d rather be on Obama’s staff than sitting in the Senate, but was a perfectly reasonable reaction to the clear implication (as soon as she found out Emanuel’s conversations with Blago were taped) that if she wanted to have a chance to be in Obama’s administration she had better put as much distance between herself and the “auction” as possible.   Which is probably why she, herself, wouldn’t speak to Greg Craig, Obama’s White House counsel, in his internal investigation, but instead, had her lawyer do it.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    There is a huge time factor in all this.  If Emanuel did do some dickering with Blago, he’s probably gone.  My feeling is, strongly, that it will be a lot less damaging to have that happen now, rather than a month from now.   I think the smart republicans (such as they are…:o) ) are perfectly willing to have this strung out until we’re in the middle of confirmation hearings for Obama’s nominations, when the fact that Obama’s nomination for A.G. played fast and loose with the truth about how hard he worked to get Bubba to pardon Marc Rich. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    I’ve been saying for some time now, that Obama is going to have more shit on his plate to deal with than any president since Lincoln.  Given Bush’s scintillating mid-east successes, including the Israeli blitzkreig in Gaza, it isn’t getting any easier.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“…does Fitz realize that his making Blago look like a sympathetic figure is the sign of a major fuckup???”</p>
<p>Uhhh…I’d say, sorta-kinda.  The problem is, that what’s on those tapes; the nuances of Emanuel’s conversations, in particular, is very much in play, media-wise.   And with Fitz now offering to cherry-pick them (with what appears to be the clear intention of helping the committee dealing with the possible impeachment of Blago, get on with it…) it’s hard to keep that halo bright and shiny.   </p>
<p>There are so many angles to this, and so many agendas, that it’s hard to decide just what has “priority”.  I think there have already been snippets of it leaked, or maybe, released, and that’s what the legislature based that 113-zip vote on.  </p>
<p>My personal 2c is this:   I think Emanuel bargained a little with Blago.  Probably not directly enough to be indictable (Hell, is BLAGO indictable?  We don’t even know that, yet.) but enough that, if that comes out, he needs to be inspecting transaxles on GrayDogs, instead of running Obama’s staff.  I understand that we don’t want Obama tarred with this, but Emanuel is not what you’d call a rockin’ progressive, who went to bat for us in the tough times.  I don’t think that Obama should spend much capital, if any, protecting him.  Push come to shove, it shouldn’t be hard to find an upgrade. :o)</p>
<p>I also think that Jarrett’s rather timely withdrawal of her name for consideration for the seat had nothing to do with her suddenly discovering that she’d rather be on Obama’s staff than sitting in the Senate, but was a perfectly reasonable reaction to the clear implication (as soon as she found out Emanuel’s conversations with Blago were taped) that if she wanted to have a chance to be in Obama’s administration she had better put as much distance between herself and the “auction” as possible.   Which is probably why she, herself, wouldn’t speak to Greg Craig, Obama’s White House counsel, in his internal investigation, but instead, had her lawyer do it.   </p>
<p>    There is a huge time factor in all this.  If Emanuel did do some dickering with Blago, he’s probably gone.  My feeling is, strongly, that it will be a lot less damaging to have that happen now, rather than a month from now.   I think the smart republicans (such as they are…:o) ) are perfectly willing to have this strung out until we’re in the middle of confirmation hearings for Obama’s nominations, when the fact that Obama’s nomination for A.G. played fast and loose with the truth about how hard he worked to get Bubba to pardon Marc Rich. </p>
<p>    I’ve been saying for some time now, that Obama is going to have more shit on his plate to deal with than any president since Lincoln.  Given Bush’s scintillating mid-east successes, including the Israeli blitzkreig in Gaza, it isn’t getting any easier.</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/comment-page-1/#comment-123278</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/#comment-123278</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;the manipulation of parallel proceedings like this just bugs the hell out of me&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;does it have a name, ala “greymail” ???&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think blagoff is just as guilty as fitz here&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the only difference is that blagoff has the right&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Fitz works for us, and I believe the Bar has some guidelines about “Ethical Behavior”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;does fitz realize that his making blaggoff look like a sympathetic figure is a sign of a major fuckup ???&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><strong>the manipulation of parallel proceedings like this just bugs the hell out of me</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p>does it have a name, ala “greymail” ???</p>
<p>I think blagoff is just as guilty as fitz here</p>
<p>the only difference is that blagoff has the right</p>
<p>Fitz works for us, and I believe the Bar has some guidelines about “Ethical Behavior”</p>
<p>does fitz realize that his making blaggoff look like a sympathetic figure is a sign of a major fuckup ???</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/comment-page-1/#comment-123277</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/#comment-123277</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I’m not as much into the Saint Patrick mindset as some&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He’s defiantly getting a little tarnish on that halo&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I’m not as much into the Saint Patrick mindset as some</p>
</blockquote>
<p>He’s defiantly getting a little tarnish on that halo</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/comment-page-1/#comment-123266</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/#comment-123266</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Right.  I could give a fuck about Blago; but the manipulation of parallel proceedings like this just bugs the hell out of me.  And it is not all just about the impeachment process either, it is contaminating the potential criminal case jury pool in the process.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right.  I could give a fuck about Blago; but the manipulation of parallel proceedings like this just bugs the hell out of me.  And it is not all just about the impeachment process either, it is contaminating the potential criminal case jury pool in the process.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/comment-page-1/#comment-123255</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/#comment-123255</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;11 - I agree bmaz.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;44/45 - some good points&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You have a situation where the legislature is left to either do nothing bc it has chosen to go along with the Prosecutor’s request that they not access any of his evidence or witnesses, so they have nothing to go forward with - - or you say you have a comfort level with politicized prosecutions starting off with highly public pressers and legislatures just jumping on board to impeach from the emotions stirred by those pressers.  I understand the issue and there’s certainly a lot to flag a prosecutor to take a very cautious route, but part of the problem was how far he went in the press conf and there are accomodations that could be made on witnesses and evidence for the legislature.  It’s also just one more in what seem to be some pretty unbroken chains of legislatures, state and national, basically being subsumed as a lesser wing of the federal Exec.  Creeps me out some&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s not an easy situation, but I’d rather not see the legislature acting like lapdogs, even if people are less concerned about politicizing and trying cases in the media when Fitzgerald’s name is attached to the event.  I guess on this one, it’s just so easy to feel like Blagojevich is guilty as sin - so who cares? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On the greater scale of things,  I guess Blago’s loss of access to witnesses isn’t going to make me lose sleep.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>11 &#8211; I agree bmaz.  </p>
<p>44/45 &#8211; some good points</p>
<p>You have a situation where the legislature is left to either do nothing bc it has chosen to go along with the Prosecutor’s request that they not access any of his evidence or witnesses, so they have nothing to go forward with &#8211; - or you say you have a comfort level with politicized prosecutions starting off with highly public pressers and legislatures just jumping on board to impeach from the emotions stirred by those pressers.  I understand the issue and there’s certainly a lot to flag a prosecutor to take a very cautious route, but part of the problem was how far he went in the press conf and there are accomodations that could be made on witnesses and evidence for the legislature.  It’s also just one more in what seem to be some pretty unbroken chains of legislatures, state and national, basically being subsumed as a lesser wing of the federal Exec.  Creeps me out some</p>
<p>It’s not an easy situation, but I’d rather not see the legislature acting like lapdogs, even if people are less concerned about politicizing and trying cases in the media when Fitzgerald’s name is attached to the event.  I guess on this one, it’s just so easy to feel like Blagojevich is guilty as sin &#8211; so who cares? </p>
<p>On the greater scale of things,  I guess Blago’s loss of access to witnesses isn’t going to make me lose sleep.</p>
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		<title>By: oldgold</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/comment-page-1/#comment-123248</link>
		<dc:creator>oldgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/#comment-123248</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Lastly, I’m not as much into the Saint Patrick mindset as some. He could have laid about him with the Libby-whip better than he did, and he is, after all, a republican.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I thought I was the only person on this site that believed Fitz was a mere mortal.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Lastly, I’m not as much into the Saint Patrick mindset as some. He could have laid about him with the Libby-whip better than he did, and he is, after all, a republican.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I thought I was the only person on this site that believed Fitz was a mere mortal.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/comment-page-1/#comment-123247</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/#comment-123247</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If true, this is complete bullshit.  Fitz should not be selectively releasing cherry picked little tidbits to influence the parallel impeachment proceeding. Either release the evidence and the witnesses, or shut the hell up and stay out of it.  As I said yesterday, this is unsavory, at best.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If true, this is complete bullshit.  Fitz should not be selectively releasing cherry picked little tidbits to influence the parallel impeachment proceeding. Either release the evidence and the witnesses, or shut the hell up and stay out of it.  As I said yesterday, this is unsavory, at best.</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/comment-page-1/#comment-123246</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/28/the-squabble-over-subpoenas-in-springfield/#comment-123246</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;off topic comment&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;if I could have spelled Guernica, I woulda said something about this last night&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;turns out, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mustafa-barghouthi/palestines-guernica-and-t_b_153958.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;somebody said it for me&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>off topic comment</p>
<p>if I could have spelled Guernica, I woulda said something about this last night</p>
<p>turns out, <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mustafa-barghouthi/palestines-guernica-and-t_b_153958.html" rel="nofollow">somebody said it for me</a></p>
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