but permit me to assert my reason for bringing all this up here at this time. twofold. only one point had to do with the toussie pardon, which to my mind, the revocation thereof has everything to do with clearing the way for rove’s plan to block holder’s confirmation.

the other point had to do with cheney’s recent PR work, which seems to me designed to prep the public, revise the history, laying the groundwork for his own blanket pardon. on that particular count, i wondered if there is precedent for pardons without a crime specified. i mean, if bush pardons cheney for anything, one would assume there is admission that a crime was committed. that list is nearly endless and needs no prompting here. but i’m confused as to how bush would pull that off without some admission of a crime. and more curiously, just how would he limit that list? if he pardons cheney for war crimes, then what happens to the wiretapping? and plame? and profiteering? and defrauding the public into war? etcetcetc….

thoughts on that business would be most appreciated. and if it’s been covered ad nauseam here before, my apologies; can’t keep up daily, i’m afraid.

thanks again.

for what it’s worth, this reminds me of godel. right, that godel, the theorem guy. roughly put, no system can be simultaneously comprehensive and coherent.

well, the story goes like this. i read a review in harper’s of a book on the conversations between godel and einstein, and was particularly intrigued by the tidbit that godel was quite exercised that he’d found an internal error in the constitution. i was so intrigued, in fact, that i bought the book (also a huge einstein groupie, truth be told).

so, here’s the error in the constitution. simply put, godel felt that the constitution relied on rules/laws to solve everything, which he believed was a huge mistake.

i have to agree (my reasons are esoteric and afield, so i’ll spare you), but would have reminded godel that the founding fathers, jefferson especially, felt the document must be organic and alive, and revised frequently, replete with a revolution every generation or so. but given that, by the time godel was studying it for his naturalization test (he barely passed, pointing out the error to the judge; he was only saved by einstein’s presence), the document had become completely frozen into place. almost petrified, if you will.

all these thoughts make me even more suspicious of scalia than i ever was before. geez, that guy does give me the creeps.

anyway, thanks again. tremendously helpful.

i think they reached their saturation point, though. michelle bachmann is doing a good job of exposing the nutjob element, and coleman’s behavior throughout the recount, not to mention his simultaneous investigation, have really left a completely sour taste in everyone’s mouth, from what my pal tells me.

and then, of course, there is the lingering rage over the repug convention. man, locals were royally ticked; the on again off again plans, the cancellations and reduction of events, the near conspiratorial avoidance of local restaurants, and when they did go, they were terrible tippers.

yes, folks, your republicans hard at work at what they do best, scamming the american public.

But any event I am sure they are convinced they can purchase the truth or at least bid on it. So why not issue executive opinions to match the processes of the judiciary. The dumbed-down public will be none the worse in their failure to comprehend the displacement of imperfect wisdom for jolly snarky self-righteous avarice.

It was clear that throwing retirees to the wolves was a big part of the plan from the first time anyone referred to “Legacy Costs”. Every time that euphemism was used, a Democratic or Rust Belt representative should have corrected it and called it retiree cost, clearly making it about retirees. Just as they should have corrected that ridiculous 70 dollar figure every time and everywhere they could. Even though the most damaging information, Toyota’s drop, came after all this went down (and who doesn’t think they sat on that info to help screw the competition) information about Germany, Sweden and Korea was available and should have been being put out every time ‘failed’ was said, but that is another comment.

This failure was extended during the second visit to the Washington when the UAW should have come with some of those retirees – particularly if they had been on the line during WWII. And the Dems should have been ready with all the figures about the PBGC and let the Plantation Republicans know they were ready to throw this into the mix to call their bluff (this is a big old bucket of worms that no one wants to address right now.)

It would have been great if the AARP had been brought on board, but that was the least of the failures of the Auto companies, the Union and the Democratic Congress to represent and protect the retirees in this.

Are you referring to Bush’s DOJ?

At present, we have NO President.

THAT is why Israel planned to use this period of time during the Lame Duck transition to kill as many Palestinians as possible, under false flag pretenses (their favorite technique).

A genocide of massive proportions has begun, and NOBODY will stop it.

Obama will say nothing, in deference to his true master, the Master of all who are (s)elected to serve Israel’s AGENDA.

I have the impression that the person who made the pardon would have to undo it…but then, I had never thought of “undoing” a pardon before.

It would seem to me that it depends on whether the action of Pardoning someone is considered a personal action by George Bush or an action by the individual holding the office of President. Assuming, of course, that a Pardon CAN be withdrawn, it would seem to me that the occupant of the office could do so. The pardon power belongs to the office, not the individual. Otherwise, ex-Presidents could issue pardons.

But I’m no lawyer, so I don’t know the law.

Can a pardon for a federal crime immunize an individual from civil lawsuits related to that crime? And even if so, does the state civil court have to consider the federal pardon at all?