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	<title>Comments on: Hot Rails To Hades</title>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/comment-page-1/#comment-122985</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/#comment-122985</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt; If you haven’t gotten lost, you haven’t driven in SF.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Boy, you got that right.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> If you haven’t gotten lost, you haven’t driven in SF.</p>
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<p>Boy, you got that right.</p>
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		<title>By: NMvoiceofreason</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/comment-page-1/#comment-122979</link>
		<dc:creator>NMvoiceofreason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/#comment-122979</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Welcome to New Mexico! Going back to EW’s (2) point, one of the smarter things done in Santa Fe and Albuquerque was the creation of leading edge “Green” bus lines. When I was growing up, Albuquerque had TERRIBLE bus service. Now the entire city is well served, on a par with the Mass. Mass transit system. Rail Runner now glues Albq. and SF together, but it uses the best technology of the 1800’s to do so. We need long distance bullet trains running in the median of the interstate system before gas goes back up to the natural price point of 2010 (10$/gal.) I know two years isn’t enough time, but if we could only get started…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Japan and France have done it. It is so wonderful to think that we are less evolved, technologically and politically than the cultures that brought us the bikini and Hello, Kitty!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“(Lots of commuters live in cheaper housing south, then drive to SF for work.)” May be a mistaken idea. New housing East of SF has pricing closer to Abq. west side prices. East side Abq. and SF proper prices are comparable. My feeling is that most people who live in the south and commute do so because as a top 40 city, Abq. has more to offer culturally, and a greater variety of (non-art) commercial shopping, better schools, and last but not least, a city laid out upon a grid system instead of cow trails. If you haven’t gotten lost, you haven’t driven in SF.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome to New Mexico! Going back to EW’s (2) point, one of the smarter things done in Santa Fe and Albuquerque was the creation of leading edge “Green” bus lines. When I was growing up, Albuquerque had TERRIBLE bus service. Now the entire city is well served, on a par with the Mass. Mass transit system. Rail Runner now glues Albq. and SF together, but it uses the best technology of the 1800’s to do so. We need long distance bullet trains running in the median of the interstate system before gas goes back up to the natural price point of 2010 (10$/gal.) I know two years isn’t enough time, but if we could only get started…</p>
<p>Japan and France have done it. It is so wonderful to think that we are less evolved, technologically and politically than the cultures that brought us the bikini and Hello, Kitty!</p>
<p>“(Lots of commuters live in cheaper housing south, then drive to SF for work.)” May be a mistaken idea. New housing East of SF has pricing closer to Abq. west side prices. East side Abq. and SF proper prices are comparable. My feeling is that most people who live in the south and commute do so because as a top 40 city, Abq. has more to offer culturally, and a greater variety of (non-art) commercial shopping, better schools, and last but not least, a city laid out upon a grid system instead of cow trails. If you haven’t gotten lost, you haven’t driven in SF.</p>
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		<title>By: Minnesotachuck</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/comment-page-1/#comment-122965</link>
		<dc:creator>Minnesotachuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/#comment-122965</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Also re #74&amp; 75&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What’s the matter with these people, the producers of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newday.com/films/Taken_for_a_Ride.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Taken for a Ride&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt; I mean?  Don’t they understand the concept of price elasticity?  What individual is going to rent this for $55?  And when you can buy most movies right off first run for $25 or less, what individual will purchase this for $225?  They would probably do much better financially by dropping their purchase prices by an order of magnitude and striking &lt;a href=&quot;http://biz.yahoo.com/e/080228/nflx10-k.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a licensing deal with Netflix.&lt;/a&gt;  From Netflix’s 10-K form at the latter link:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;We acquire titles from studios and distributors through direct purchases, revenue sharing agreements or license agreements. Direct purchases of DVDs normally result in higher upfront costs than titles obtained through revenue sharing agreements. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s no wonder that this important documentary is not available on Netflix if they have to buy it for the $225 they charge “institutions” (colleges and universities), assuming they’ll even sell it to a for-profit company for that price.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also re #74&amp; 75</p>
<p>What’s the matter with these people, the producers of <a href="http://www.newday.com/films/Taken_for_a_Ride.html" rel="nofollow"><em>Taken for a Ride</em></a> I mean?  Don’t they understand the concept of price elasticity?  What individual is going to rent this for $55?  And when you can buy most movies right off first run for $25 or less, what individual will purchase this for $225?  They would probably do much better financially by dropping their purchase prices by an order of magnitude and striking <a href="http://biz.yahoo.com/e/080228/nflx10-k.html" rel="nofollow">a licensing deal with Netflix.</a>  From Netflix’s 10-K form at the latter link:</p>
<blockquote><p>We acquire titles from studios and distributors through direct purchases, revenue sharing agreements or license agreements. Direct purchases of DVDs normally result in higher upfront costs than titles obtained through revenue sharing agreements. </p></blockquote>
<p>It’s no wonder that this important documentary is not available on Netflix if they have to buy it for the $225 they charge “institutions” (colleges and universities), assuming they’ll even sell it to a for-profit company for that price.</p>
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		<title>By: Minnesotachuck</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/comment-page-1/#comment-122961</link>
		<dc:creator>Minnesotachuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/#comment-122961</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;GM is not all there is to this story.  A great book on the rise of auto/truck transport and the decline of the railroads is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Getting-There-Struggle-American-Mathematics/dp/0226300439/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1230476078&amp;sr=1-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Getting There: The Epic Struggle between Road and Rail in the American Century&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, by Stephen Goddard.  It was written in the mid 1990s and is largely the story of yet one more of the extremely powerful and canny early and mid 20th century federal bureaucrats, such as &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;J. Edgar Hoover&lt;/a&gt; (FBI) and &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Dominy&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Floyd Dominy&lt;/a&gt; (USBR).  This one is Thomas McDonald, the founder of what became the Federal Highway Administration.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GM is not all there is to this story.  A great book on the rise of auto/truck transport and the decline of the railroads is <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Getting-There-Struggle-American-Mathematics/dp/0226300439/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1230476078&amp;sr=1-1" rel="nofollow"><em>Getting There: The Epic Struggle between Road and Rail in the American Century</em></a>, by Stephen Goddard.  It was written in the mid 1990s and is largely the story of yet one more of the extremely powerful and canny early and mid 20th century federal bureaucrats, such as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover" rel="nofollow">J. Edgar Hoover</a> (FBI) and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Dominy" rel="nofollow">Floyd Dominy</a> (USBR).  This one is Thomas McDonald, the founder of what became the Federal Highway Administration.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/comment-page-1/#comment-122946</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 06:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/#comment-122946</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, from everything that I’ve seen, the prices take a few years to start upwards, and a lot depends on how good the design is, and what kinds of social dynamics occur. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;After 8 years of Bush (really, 28 years going back to Reagan in 1980), there’s &lt;em&gt;nothing but opportunity&lt;/em&gt; for Obama’s administration as far as I’m concerned.  There’s a lot that could be done, and much of it involves improved community and building design, and there’s a pretty solid body of research showing that translates into improved safety.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One of the things that cities seldom do is bring their cops in to sit in on the planning projects; a smart cop can add a lot of value to a project by spotting potential safety problems that designers can then address from the earliest stages.  Those involve things as simple as landscaping — and both safety and ‘amenities’ like plants lead to higher property values.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, from everything that I’ve seen, the prices take a few years to start upwards, and a lot depends on how good the design is, and what kinds of social dynamics occur. </p>
<p>After 8 years of Bush (really, 28 years going back to Reagan in 1980), there’s <em>nothing but opportunity</em> for Obama’s administration as far as I’m concerned.  There’s a lot that could be done, and much of it involves improved community and building design, and there’s a pretty solid body of research showing that translates into improved safety.  </p>
<p>One of the things that cities seldom do is bring their cops in to sit in on the planning projects; a smart cop can add a lot of value to a project by spotting potential safety problems that designers can then address from the earliest stages.  Those involve things as simple as landscaping — and both safety and ‘amenities’ like plants lead to higher property values.</p>
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		<title>By: DBfromPNW</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/comment-page-1/#comment-122934</link>
		<dc:creator>DBfromPNW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/#comment-122934</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The point about real estate values increasing (or not losing value) seems to be born out by several reports.  Voila - development.  This is most true with well run rail systems.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Phoenix’ system will probably follow what has happened in many other communities.  For the first 5 years development will seem slow, after that time the cumulative effect will be obvious.  The other circumstance that will affect the rate of development will be the price of oil.  Once the economy begins to recover it’s likely to rise again.  The rise had the effect of pushing many homeowners in distant exurbs over the edge financially.  Places like Palmdale are nearly ghost towns while areas near the rail transit in LA are thriving.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It will be a combination of factors some of which we won’t know for some time, ie. economic recovery in the US.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama has promised ‘green jobs’ programs.  Development near transit stops will definitely rate more funding under this program than the sprawl we’ve experienced since WWII.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point about real estate values increasing (or not losing value) seems to be born out by several reports.  Voila &#8211; development.  This is most true with well run rail systems.</p>
<p>Phoenix’ system will probably follow what has happened in many other communities.  For the first 5 years development will seem slow, after that time the cumulative effect will be obvious.  The other circumstance that will affect the rate of development will be the price of oil.  Once the economy begins to recover it’s likely to rise again.  The rise had the effect of pushing many homeowners in distant exurbs over the edge financially.  Places like Palmdale are nearly ghost towns while areas near the rail transit in LA are thriving.  </p>
<p>It will be a combination of factors some of which we won’t know for some time, ie. economic recovery in the US.</p>
<p>Obama has promised ‘green jobs’ programs.  Development near transit stops will definitely rate more funding under this program than the sprawl we’ve experienced since WWII.</p>
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		<title>By: raven333</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/comment-page-1/#comment-122933</link>
		<dc:creator>raven333</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 02:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/#comment-122933</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In general, rail systems grow up alongside their cities.  Trying to retofit…I don’t think anyone knows how.  Watch Washington County, Oregon, west of Portland.  That has become a test lab for this problem.  Urban plans which depend on the primary use of automobiles are past their “sell by” date, so I suppose we will work something out, but I don’t think anyone knows what, yet.  Much depends on the price of fuel, the availability of quality automobiles, and the direction of government subsidies–there would after all be no interstate highway system without the federal government.  Expect dislocations in urban plans.  On the other hand, once solutions are found and begin to take hold, expect them to take off like wildfire.  The old trolley suburbs are some of the most comfortable urban forms ever devised, and if modern suburbs can be retrofitted into those forms, they will probably be immensely popular.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Medium-range high-speed intercity rail–for distances like that between LA and SF or, for that matter, Phoenix and LA–is a very practical idea.  The only thing that has held it back is political opposition.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In general, rail systems grow up alongside their cities.  Trying to retofit…I don’t think anyone knows how.  Watch Washington County, Oregon, west of Portland.  That has become a test lab for this problem.  Urban plans which depend on the primary use of automobiles are past their “sell by” date, so I suppose we will work something out, but I don’t think anyone knows what, yet.  Much depends on the price of fuel, the availability of quality automobiles, and the direction of government subsidies–there would after all be no interstate highway system without the federal government.  Expect dislocations in urban plans.  On the other hand, once solutions are found and begin to take hold, expect them to take off like wildfire.  The old trolley suburbs are some of the most comfortable urban forms ever devised, and if modern suburbs can be retrofitted into those forms, they will probably be immensely popular.</p>
<p>Medium-range high-speed intercity rail–for distances like that between LA and SF or, for that matter, Phoenix and LA–is a very practical idea.  The only thing that has held it back is political opposition.</p>
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		<title>By: 4jkb4ia</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/comment-page-1/#comment-122928</link>
		<dc:creator>4jkb4ia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 01:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/#comment-122928</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Absolutely must give a shoutout to the commenter on The Field who made that song into Hillary on the campaign plane.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely must give a shoutout to the commenter on The Field who made that song into Hillary on the campaign plane.</p>
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		<title>By: 4jkb4ia</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/comment-page-1/#comment-122924</link>
		<dc:creator>4jkb4ia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 01:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/#comment-122924</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good gravy, they attacked Gaza &lt;i&gt;today&lt;/i&gt;?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good gravy, they attacked Gaza <i>today</i>?</p>
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		<title>By: 4jkb4ia</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/comment-page-1/#comment-122922</link>
		<dc:creator>4jkb4ia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 01:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/26/hot-rails-to-hades/#comment-122922</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You probably didn’t see the article in the NYT a few days ago about how Islamist organizations are the only valve for dissent in countries like Jordan, even. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood as well. And they are both a terrorist organization and the elected government of somewhere that no one sane wanted to live 10 years ago. Sorry bmaz for disrupting the thread. I wanted to add also that this cutting off the train service after 7 pm may reduce crime but is insane if you want increased ridership from UMSL on the train.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You probably didn’t see the article in the NYT a few days ago about how Islamist organizations are the only valve for dissent in countries like Jordan, even. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood as well. And they are both a terrorist organization and the elected government of somewhere that no one sane wanted to live 10 years ago. Sorry bmaz for disrupting the thread. I wanted to add also that this cutting off the train service after 7 pm may reduce crime but is insane if you want increased ridership from UMSL on the train.</p>
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