if not, oh well. take an epsom salts fragranced bath, it works.

good luck with your search with the people you have been talking to. they won’t lead you anywhere. in my email i gave you the exact person you need to find to get the truth. wasn’t an easy email on my part. i hope you realize that when you read it. then you’ll see it had absolutely nothing to do with what you wrote to me, and why it was so important that i wrote what i did. good luck in that search.

i was trying to point out that you are missing something pertinent without calling it out and without saying how i know it.
sometimes things hit close to home and sometimes people know things and can’t say why. and in order to defend it, i have to say something i can’t.
all because you are hard set on something you think you know.

back the fuck off.

next time i’ll wait to hear it on the local news. and won’t be mentioning it here, i’m sure that’s ok with you.

This is an open and intelligent forum here. Post up your best facts, arguments and opinions and they will be engaged on the merits. But don’t get pissy when independent minds consider them and are not swayed; sometimes different people just see things differently. That is okay.

and in the 80s volksswagon closed plants all over the world, in south africa caused major bad things, and moved them to canada, where in the 90s they then closed again..all of the people they moved there were out of work…parts plants, too. then they showed a resurgence with the new bug, but they weren’t built at the same locales. then other models followed that people bought. thousands and thousands out of work world wide. i know an exec that is now in ontario, from south africa. transferred and watched it all fall. had to start his career again at 57. not a relative, just someone i knew.

just ask eddie from barenakedladies, he worked at one of the parts warehouses in canada, he can tell you.

it’s happened before, it’s not just our automotive manufacturing, it affects far more than what you all are considering. you keep saying there is more in play, yet, you are not considering that there is more in play that what you are seeing. there is. most definitely.

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our family always had volksswagons, up to the last van that was made, my car i learned to drive was a carman ghia, after the last model van, then they went buick and american made after that.

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and all day i so wanted to write a resume of why my dad said what he said, as a slam dance, i so wanted to, there are reasons why he said what he said and why you should consider it, but am going to think about it some more before i do. cuz i can’t say all of it on here.

i wish you would have considered it without me having to do that. and hope you do.
i think sometimes fdl misses things when they are offered, blinders, cuz you said you ‘know’ people, but people who ‘know’ are telling you things that are true in that context, but are not ‘true’ when it comes to how it is done and you don’t want to listen. the execs who you are talking to aren’t the guys who do the math. there are only so many ways to do the math. i told you, admittedly hesitantly, cuz i hate repeating what someone else said, what a guy said who has done the math firsthand in a variety of international manufacturing corporate situational circumstances to save jobs and save companies and you blew it off cuz someone told you differently. not good. kinda stupid.

if you want to see the whole picture, talk to the people who do the REAL numbers on the books.

the execs bmaz mentioned, those people are not people doing the numbers, are not the ones submitting the reports, are not the ones that went in and assessed who was staying who was going, what plants are staying open and why, what operations would stay open and why, what suppliers will stay and why, etc………there are very few people who can give you that picture.

i offered an insight of one of those people and you blew me off.

i offered the opinion of someone who has done that and you said, but, someone in power told us this.

dangerous.

you shouldn’t have to come on here and express an opinion with doctoral credentials to make a point just because someone read the first line incorrectly. or was afraid of what the truth might be. when you face a situation you can change it, that’s what he taught me, and he faced some awful truths, and saved a lot of jobs doing that. maybe someone can learn from him, i did.

he said a bailout will make it worse, that there are accounting ways to do it differently, that the companies don’t want to do it that way because they will lose control over how they are now doing things. that a reorganization is more solid, that it has to do with solvency. that means on paper worth. that’s what he said. if i were you and i wanted to know what was really going on with this, i would find the guy who is the budgeting and forecasting/auditor. division head, that’s the guy right below the vice-president……until you do, you’re gettin’ breezed.

So, too, Wall Street and the financial markets are partially private, but dealing in publicly traded securities subjects those private firms to public scrutiny. Again, Congress has the ability to strengthen the relevant disclosure and operating rules, and there are ample precedents for doing so.

Cerberus, on the other hand, represents an example of the ultimate private business. Operating more like a Swiss bank than market maker, it’s rules are whatever its top players want them to be. The public attempting to influence its operations directly is like a toddler eating Jello with a toothpick, a modestly frustrating experience that can become enraging as the hunger pangs mount.

My point is that the US government, in exchange for becoming a company or industry’s lender or shareholder of last resort, can and should demand a decision-making role commensurate with the volume of public resources it puts at risk. Paulson should have done this in bailing out Wall Street. Instead, he spiked any effort to do so, revealing that his stint in government and away from Wall Street is a mere holiday. Obama owes the American public more publicly-minded stewards for their limited and shrinking resources. The DFH’s job is to help him realize that.

The basic issue is this: when the economy recovers, is it in the long-term economic interest of the US for cars with “American” badges to be made by Americans in the US? The alternative is to have the transition work done by Ford and GM snapped up at firesale prices by cash-rich foreign enterprises, retired workers stiffed on the deals they made in lieu of wages (perhaps landing the nation, via the PBGC, with the bill) and the manufacture outsourced in ways that eventually squeeze the southern, foreign-owned plants.

It’s possible to argue that Ford and GM are beyond salvation, but the current economic climate is no laboratory to make that assessment.

Just the typical American business model. Before the crappy American car was the crappy Japanese car. Things change to reflect the state of the technology, competition and consumer demand. And mileage is only pertinent when the consumer reacts to high gas prices, itself wildly fluctuating. Reward will only come to the best competitor that satisfies an increasingly discriminating consumer. Thus I take issue with this portion of your post.