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	<title>Comments on: Hold Lifted on Barofsky Nomination</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/</link>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/comment-page-1/#comment-117682</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/#comment-117682</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No, actually, around here, that suspicion arose because MadDog pointed out that Bunning was badmouthing oversight and said Barofsky wouldn’t be needed–and did so 4 days before TPM realized there was a hold.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, actually, around here, that suspicion arose because MadDog pointed out that Bunning was badmouthing oversight and said Barofsky wouldn’t be needed–and did so 4 days before TPM realized there was a hold.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/comment-page-1/#comment-117677</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks Prof - I have primarily those newagey versions, but in my soul, I figured there was some dumbstrucking somewhere. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A People of Unclean Lips.  That really pretty much says it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Prof &#8211; I have primarily those newagey versions, but in my soul, I figured there was some dumbstrucking somewhere. </p>
<p>A People of Unclean Lips.  That really pretty much says it.</p>
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		<title>By: Professor Foland</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/comment-page-1/#comment-117667</link>
		<dc:creator>Professor Foland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/#comment-117667</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just a note, that the original word is really “struck dumb” but in most English versions it’s translated as “undone”.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a note, that the original word is really “struck dumb” but in most English versions it’s translated as “undone”.</p>
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		<title>By: Professor Foland</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/comment-page-1/#comment-117662</link>
		<dc:creator>Professor Foland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/#comment-117662</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Then said I, Woe is me! for I am struck dumb; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Isaiah 6:5&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Then said I, Woe is me! for I am struck dumb; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips.</em></p>
<p>Isaiah 6:5</p>
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		<title>By: jdmckay</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/comment-page-1/#comment-117656</link>
		<dc:creator>jdmckay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/#comment-117656</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I find it remarkable that Dodd had in hand only non-certifiable wage difs between transplants and GM in Kentucky (+/- 3 p/hr) and nothing else.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;How can they possible even consider in an intelligent manner Corker’s hypothetical, or anything else, w/out hard information on stuff like that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it remarkable that Dodd had in hand only non-certifiable wage difs between transplants and GM in Kentucky (+/- 3 p/hr) and nothing else.  </p>
<p>How can they possible even consider in an intelligent manner Corker’s hypothetical, or anything else, w/out hard information on stuff like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/comment-page-1/#comment-117616</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;41 - “good faith” apparently being the kind that doesn’t necessarily strike you dumb in public while you are praising torturers.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>41 &#8211; “good faith” apparently being the kind that doesn’t necessarily strike you dumb in public while you are praising torturers.</p>
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		<title>By: JimWhite</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/comment-page-1/#comment-117600</link>
		<dc:creator>JimWhite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/#comment-117600</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Indeed on the Mukasey point.  I mentioned on Greenwald’s thread this morning that this statement from Mukasey would be the equivalent of one of us saying in court: “Your honor, my attorney informed me the speed limit in that school zone was 75 mph, not 15 mph, so those deaths are not my fault.”  I should have added that Mukasey also would excuse the attorney who rendered the opinion, too.  After all, it was produced in good faith and all that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed on the Mukasey point.  I mentioned on Greenwald’s thread this morning that this statement from Mukasey would be the equivalent of one of us saying in court: “Your honor, my attorney informed me the speed limit in that school zone was 75 mph, not 15 mph, so those deaths are not my fault.”  I should have added that Mukasey also would excuse the attorney who rendered the opinion, too.  After all, it was produced in good faith and all that.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/comment-page-1/#comment-117590</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/#comment-117590</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;33 - yep&lt;br /&gt;
38 - it was playing well in KY to be against anything to do with the financial bailout, so Bunning was playing to the home crowd since McConell couldn’t.  As a matter of fact, during the elections here, it was Dem (at least, Chuck Schumer’s pick to play a Dem) candidate Lunsford who was running ad after ad attacking the bailout that Obama was voting for and supporting.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;OT - Mukasey is all on board with the Obamites that there really isn’t any reason for pardons, bc no one is going to do anything, anyway.  I’m also wondering how domestic pardons would enter into to foreign investigations and solidify jurisdiction on some claims, with the US having made its “final act” by pardoning?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In any event, undeterred by being stricken dumb in front of the Federalist Society while advocating for torture, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/04/us/04justice.html?_r=2&amp;ref=todayspaper&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mukasey opines&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Mr. Mukasey, whose nomination as attorney general last year was threatened by his refusal to say whether he considered waterboarding to be torture, said the lawyers who authorized the surveillance and interrogation programs had done so in the belief that they were following the law.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“In those circumstances,” he said, “there is no occasion to consider prosecution, and there is no occasion to consider pardon.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“If the word goes out to the contrary,” he said, “then people are going to get the message, which is that if you come up with an answer that is not considered desirable in the future you might face prosecution, and that creates an incentive not to give an honest answer but to give an answer that may be acceptable in the future. It also creates some incentive in people not to ask in the first place.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Awww - isn’t that cute?  So, I’m guessing the CIA officer who had to be reprimanded for treating the torture sessions as personal entertainment events just thought she was following the law, the CIA officer who had his dead torture victim dumped in an unmarked grave, the disappeared children, the human experimentation with drugs and abuse, all with the WH’s direct knowledge, since at least the fall fo 2002, that it was making massive “mistakes” about the terrorism involvement of those it was rounding up and torturing.  The lies to Congress, the lies to even the Sup Ct (Clement’s assertions even while the Arar case was pending) the destruction of evidence, the “classification” of legal analysis, Haynes proceeding in the face of every single top JAG saying he was wrong, and on and on.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Incredible.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>33 &#8211; yep<br />
38 &#8211; it was playing well in KY to be against anything to do with the financial bailout, so Bunning was playing to the home crowd since McConell couldn’t.  As a matter of fact, during the elections here, it was Dem (at least, Chuck Schumer’s pick to play a Dem) candidate Lunsford who was running ad after ad attacking the bailout that Obama was voting for and supporting.  </p>
<p>OT &#8211; Mukasey is all on board with the Obamites that there really isn’t any reason for pardons, bc no one is going to do anything, anyway.  I’m also wondering how domestic pardons would enter into to foreign investigations and solidify jurisdiction on some claims, with the US having made its “final act” by pardoning?  </p>
<p>In any event, undeterred by being stricken dumb in front of the Federalist Society while advocating for torture, <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/04/us/04justice.html?_r=2&amp;ref=todayspaper" rel="nofollow">Mukasey opines</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Mr. Mukasey, whose nomination as attorney general last year was threatened by his refusal to say whether he considered waterboarding to be torture, said the lawyers who authorized the surveillance and interrogation programs had done so in the belief that they were following the law.</p>
<p>“In those circumstances,” he said, “there is no occasion to consider prosecution, and there is no occasion to consider pardon.”</p>
<p>“If the word goes out to the contrary,” he said, “then people are going to get the message, which is that if you come up with an answer that is not considered desirable in the future you might face prosecution, and that creates an incentive not to give an honest answer but to give an answer that may be acceptable in the future. It also creates some incentive in people not to ask in the first place.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Awww &#8211; isn’t that cute?  So, I’m guessing the CIA officer who had to be reprimanded for treating the torture sessions as personal entertainment events just thought she was following the law, the CIA officer who had his dead torture victim dumped in an unmarked grave, the disappeared children, the human experimentation with drugs and abuse, all with the WH’s direct knowledge, since at least the fall fo 2002, that it was making massive “mistakes” about the terrorism involvement of those it was rounding up and torturing.  The lies to Congress, the lies to even the Sup Ct (Clement’s assertions even while the Arar case was pending) the destruction of evidence, the “classification” of legal analysis, Haynes proceeding in the face of every single top JAG saying he was wrong, and on and on.</p>
<p>Incredible.</p>
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		<title>By: fatster</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/comment-page-1/#comment-117575</link>
		<dc:creator>fatster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh, wow.   But, did they car pool?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, wow.   But, did they car pool?</p>
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		<title>By: Professor Foland</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/comment-page-1/#comment-117563</link>
		<dc:creator>Professor Foland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/12/04/hold-off-on-barofsky-nomination/#comment-117563</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;One odd thing.  I remember Bunning be pretty brutal to Paulson during the 9/23 TARP proposal hearing in the Senate Banking Committee.  (Does anyone know how I can find a transcript of it?)  So was Bunning sandbagging during the questioning?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One odd thing.  I remember Bunning be pretty brutal to Paulson during the 9/23 TARP proposal hearing in the Senate Banking Committee.  (Does anyone know how I can find a transcript of it?)  So was Bunning sandbagging during the questioning?</p>
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