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	<title>Comments on: The Boogeyman versus the New Bretton Woods</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/</link>
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		<title>By: MaryCh</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115482</link>
		<dc:creator>MaryCh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115482</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;It’s like once (at least fairly) reliable US institutions, en totale, are on Acid.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hear, hear!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This comment is a good summary of what the Bush era boils down to:  Evil or incompetent, or both?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My not very nuanced take:  Profoundly but not exclusively evil (evil here including the anti-democratic, Cheney-power-fixating, atmospherics of smaller government except for helping ‘my base’).  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And so driven by ideology (trickle down &amp; voodoo) that they’re incapable of appreciating, never mind rousing themselves to do, the right thing (cf. 375 economists yelling ‘yoo hoo, 1933, Keynesianism’ etc.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>It’s like once (at least fairly) reliable US institutions, en totale, are on Acid.</em></p>
<p>Hear, hear!</p>
<p>This comment is a good summary of what the Bush era boils down to:  Evil or incompetent, or both?</p>
<p>My not very nuanced take:  Profoundly but not exclusively evil (evil here including the anti-democratic, Cheney-power-fixating, atmospherics of smaller government except for helping ‘my base’).  </p>
<p>And so driven by ideology (trickle down &amp; voodoo) that they’re incapable of appreciating, never mind rousing themselves to do, the right thing (cf. 375 economists yelling ‘yoo hoo, 1933, Keynesianism’ etc.)</p>
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		<title>By: jdmckay</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115401</link>
		<dc:creator>jdmckay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115401</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is a really good, informative post Marcy… thanks.  Given me pause to reconsider several of my assumptions.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I presume they told him repeatedly that his fuck-ups had caused this global disaster. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yep. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;That’s pretty much what they were telling him beforehand–all polite and like.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(pounds forehead on wall)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;After Enron (I lived in Ca. @ the time) I moved all my savings/retirement to Euros.  Among other reasons, EU agreements requiring considerable (though as it turns out not enough) oversight, capitol reserves of participating nations… what they were at least trying to do looked to me like necessary due diligence to protect against what’s now unfolding w/US economy/$USD etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Point being, because of that move I payed pretty close attention to EURO economics since then.  I mention this because as mortgage bond scam began to unfold a few months ago, a number of EU finance ministers advocated interest rate &lt;em&gt;increase&lt;/em&gt;, AFAIC the right response to tighten credit access given role very cheap loans played in fast-and-loose “financial instrument” pyramid schemes that got us here.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Those guys (advocating higher interest) lost that debate.  All kinds of back channel innuendo strongly suggesting this happened as a result of Bushco strong arming.  I didn’t (and still don’t) understand what persuasion was enforced to sway them, just another out-of-sight BushCo initiated cause-and-effect that’s discernible only from what’s not explicitly said.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Whatever the reason, they buckled.  And payed a huge price, being now much more integrally entwined in downward spiral then had they stood their ground on interest rates.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Anyway, here we are now.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m reminded, (I’m travelling &amp; don’t have my Bush-libray-links-of-malfeasance at my fingertipes) around late ‘03 or early ‘04, with Iraq costs spiraling way out of control (from $25b “max” to +/-$200b in 18 mos), Bush continued rounds of not just massive tax cuts, but tax incentives for offshoring manufacturing, security (Haliburton left our shores), etc etc.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And I remember thinking that all that was unfolding…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;* these guy’s visceral hate of what they called “welfare state” (Bush’s war on Soc Sec. had begun)&lt;br /&gt;
* Utter vapid Iraq invasion justifications&lt;br /&gt;
* All the other politcally dominated decisions coming out of W’s WH, entirely contrary to even basic common sense&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;… watching this I began to wonder if bankrupting US wasn’t their intention, as a means to kill their hated “welfare state” once an for all.  Seemed almost like an insane notion.  Then on bunch of sites/blogs I relied upon, whole bunch of pretty smart, well informed commenters/bloggers were echoing the same thing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The extent of current econ mess blows my mind… really.  It blows my mind.  At this stage, as more and more bad paper percolates onto S&amp;P’s books, we’re looking broker and broker.  Just 2 months ago, all available #s and best econ advise I saw suggested CitiGroup &amp; BofA 2 best capitalized of US institutions.  Now looks like CG going toes up.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Occurs to me as this all unfolds: I have heard no talk in cirlces that matter of prosecution… not ratings agencies, purveyors of CDOs, or any other players.  Instead, seems like Treasury replenishing savings of these guys (at taxpayer expense) for rainy-day emergencies.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s like once (at least fairly) reliable US institutions, en totale, are on Acid.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a really good, informative post Marcy… thanks.  Given me pause to reconsider several of my assumptions.</p>
<blockquote><p>I presume they told him repeatedly that his fuck-ups had caused this global disaster. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yep. </p>
<blockquote><p>That’s pretty much what they were telling him beforehand–all polite and like.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>(pounds forehead on wall)</p>
<p>After Enron (I lived in Ca. @ the time) I moved all my savings/retirement to Euros.  Among other reasons, EU agreements requiring considerable (though as it turns out not enough) oversight, capitol reserves of participating nations… what they were at least trying to do looked to me like necessary due diligence to protect against what’s now unfolding w/US economy/$USD etc.</p>
<p>Point being, because of that move I payed pretty close attention to EURO economics since then.  I mention this because as mortgage bond scam began to unfold a few months ago, a number of EU finance ministers advocated interest rate <em>increase</em>, AFAIC the right response to tighten credit access given role very cheap loans played in fast-and-loose “financial instrument” pyramid schemes that got us here.  </p>
<p>Those guys (advocating higher interest) lost that debate.  All kinds of back channel innuendo strongly suggesting this happened as a result of Bushco strong arming.  I didn’t (and still don’t) understand what persuasion was enforced to sway them, just another out-of-sight BushCo initiated cause-and-effect that’s discernible only from what’s not explicitly said.  </p>
<p>Whatever the reason, they buckled.  And payed a huge price, being now much more integrally entwined in downward spiral then had they stood their ground on interest rates.</p>
<p>Anyway, here we are now.</p>
<p>I’m reminded, (I’m travelling &amp; don’t have my Bush-libray-links-of-malfeasance at my fingertipes) around late ‘03 or early ‘04, with Iraq costs spiraling way out of control (from $25b “max” to +/-$200b in 18 mos), Bush continued rounds of not just massive tax cuts, but tax incentives for offshoring manufacturing, security (Haliburton left our shores), etc etc.  </p>
<p>And I remember thinking that all that was unfolding…</p>
<p>* these guy’s visceral hate of what they called “welfare state” (Bush’s war on Soc Sec. had begun)<br />
* Utter vapid Iraq invasion justifications<br />
* All the other politcally dominated decisions coming out of W’s WH, entirely contrary to even basic common sense</p>
<p>… watching this I began to wonder if bankrupting US wasn’t their intention, as a means to kill their hated “welfare state” once an for all.  Seemed almost like an insane notion.  Then on bunch of sites/blogs I relied upon, whole bunch of pretty smart, well informed commenters/bloggers were echoing the same thing.</p>
<p>The extent of current econ mess blows my mind… really.  It blows my mind.  At this stage, as more and more bad paper percolates onto S&amp;P’s books, we’re looking broker and broker.  Just 2 months ago, all available #s and best econ advise I saw suggested CitiGroup &amp; BofA 2 best capitalized of US institutions.  Now looks like CG going toes up.</p>
<p>Occurs to me as this all unfolds: I have heard no talk in cirlces that matter of prosecution… not ratings agencies, purveyors of CDOs, or any other players.  Instead, seems like Treasury replenishing savings of these guys (at taxpayer expense) for rainy-day emergencies.</p>
<p>It’s like once (at least fairly) reliable US institutions, en totale, are on Acid.</p>
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		<title>By: prostratedragon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115362</link>
		<dc:creator>prostratedragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115362</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A musical summation:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W59uAhthw0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Insensatez (How Insensitive)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
by Antonio Carlos Jobim
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I couldn’t find the excellent but somewhat different version by the Hot Club of Detroit on-line.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(Hopefully the database error I just got does not produce 68 copies of this post when I resubmit it.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A musical summation:</p>
<blockquote><p>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W59uAhthw0" rel="nofollow">Insensatez (How Insensitive)</a><br />
by Antonio Carlos Jobim
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I couldn’t find the excellent but somewhat different version by the Hot Club of Detroit on-line.</p>
<p>(Hopefully the database error I just got does not produce 68 copies of this post when I resubmit it.)</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115355</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115355</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What Would Bandar Do?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Would Bandar Do?</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115350</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115350</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Now, if we can’t post a windfall tax on our own oil companies, but we’re begging from our oil buddies in the ME, then waht does that amount to? And if were one of the Sheikhs being asked, why wouldn’t I say, “Tax Exxon.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, if we can’t post a windfall tax on our own oil companies, but we’re begging from our oil buddies in the ME, then waht does that amount to? And if were one of the Sheikhs being asked, why wouldn’t I say, “Tax Exxon.”</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115348</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115348</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Fair enough.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Though I imagine teh animosity over the fight was probably mutual.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I presume they told him repeatedly that his fuck-ups had caused this global disaster. That’s pretty much what they were telling him beforehand–all polite and like.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough.</p>
<p>Though I imagine teh animosity over the fight was probably mutual.</p>
<p>I presume they told him repeatedly that his fuck-ups had caused this global disaster. That’s pretty much what they were telling him beforehand–all polite and like.</p>
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		<title>By: radiofreewill</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115346</link>
		<dc:creator>radiofreewill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115346</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That is a Public Shunning of a man soon to be Internationally Rung-Up for War Crimes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And, they all know it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s just that Smirky isn’t taking it well - acting instead as if it is he who is shunning them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We may see Justice after all, especially if the ’retroactive’ Torture Pardons for Bush and his Policy Henchpeople (tucked into in the DTA and MCA) are Exhibits A and B in a Defense Cover Brief Charge…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, this is the Photo Op that catalogues the dis-association of the ’dignified’ New Bretton Woods Leaders from the Frumpy, Awkward, Discredited Boogeyman, himself.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Will it go anywhere?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a Public Shunning of a man soon to be Internationally Rung-Up for War Crimes.</p>
<p>And, they all know it.</p>
<p>It’s just that Smirky isn’t taking it well &#8211; acting instead as if it is he who is shunning them.</p>
<p>We may see Justice after all, especially if the ’retroactive’ Torture Pardons for Bush and his Policy Henchpeople (tucked into in the DTA and MCA) are Exhibits A and B in a Defense Cover Brief Charge…</p>
<p>So, this is the Photo Op that catalogues the dis-association of the ’dignified’ New Bretton Woods Leaders from the Frumpy, Awkward, Discredited Boogeyman, himself.</p>
<p>Will it go anywhere?</p>
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		<title>By: masaccio</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115341</link>
		<dc:creator>masaccio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115341</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;It is true that this crisis included failures by lenders and borrowers, by financial firms, by governments and independent regulators. But the crisis was not a failure of the free market system. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Looks like the components of the free market system all failed, which to me sounds like the free market system failed. Conservatism didn’t fail either. I wonder what else didn’t fail.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It is true that this crisis included failures by lenders and borrowers, by financial firms, by governments and independent regulators. But the crisis was not a failure of the free market system. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Looks like the components of the free market system all failed, which to me sounds like the free market system failed. Conservatism didn’t fail either. I wonder what else didn’t fail.</p>
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		<title>By: prostratedragon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115340</link>
		<dc:creator>prostratedragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115340</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You think the Citi blow might wait until the depths of Turkey weekend?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You think the Citi blow might wait until the depths of Turkey weekend?</p>
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		<title>By: prostratedragon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115339</link>
		<dc:creator>prostratedragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/20/the-boogeyman-versus-the-new-bretton-woods/#comment-115339</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good, good point.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good, good point.</p>
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