I am really not trying to bust your chops or anything. With your experience I would expect you to know about the auto strikes more than I, but I notice you said ”major” strikes so there seems to be some distinctions that you are making that I probably don’t really understand.

But let’s talk airplanes first and then we will wind this up.
I am a sociable guy. That is good and bad, for married life, but it does give you a chance to know a lot of people. I am one of those guys that goes to reunions, bars, parties, fishing trips, hunting, skiing, etc., that keeps up with old friends, that actually blogs about many subjects on many sites.

There are some pilots that come to mind that I knew fairly well, meaning, I met their girl friends and their wives, and occasionally their children.

One flew C130s in the military. His dream was to be an airline pilot like my friend (actually friends) that were Delta Captains. Last I heard, 10 years ago, he was flying cargo out of FL.
Another flew helicopters in the military. He too had the dream, even hunger. He went to the school where they train you in big planes on his own dime. He ended up working as a Charter pilot down in Charleston, last I heard.
Another never was in the military. He wanted to fly. He took lessons, got a private license right out of college, got a bunch of hours, and contacted the airlines. He was about maybe 26, younger than I at the time. The airlines said that in most all things he was ideal. He had a mechanical engineering degree with very good grades, a good resume right back to grammar school. They said that they would have put into a track system they had flying small planes and move him up except for 1 tiny detail. He had congenital high blood pressure. Was a tremendous physical specimen except for that. That meant he couldn’t get a commercial license. He couldn’t go ahead.
Another I know was in the CAP as a kid, was a tremendous specimen both mentally and physically. Went through school on a full AFROTC scholarship. Graduated and was on his way to flight school, until he got to Lackland AFB in Texas. The dust stopped him from flying. He was allergic to it and it caused congestion, etc. Still he changed his career path, and made it to a FULL Bird in the Air Force, the same rank I had in the Navy.

THere are a lot of men, kids and older who dream of flying and unless they make it to the big times, they don’t make the bucks.

If you have been around like you say, then you have heard the saying ”Many are called, few are chosen.”

Now back to the UAW. They along with some compliant managers, and a complicit congress have killed GM, and maybe Ford, and Chrysler.

I would liken them to the people who ate the Golden Goose, and then, oh hey surprise, the golden eggs stopped.

George Bush was like that. He supposedly had everything going his way but now he has ruined the GOP, the term conservative, and this whole country.

Bill Clinton ate that Goose too, self destructed, and helped give us Bush.

Now we have President Elect Obama. Let us pray that he doesn’t also develop an appetite for power and misuse and abuse it like those before him.

you are a bit confused. My point was that the UAW didn’t strike all the companies at once.

As for the 300K a year, a friend of mine though a bit older flew off carriers during Nam. He was the Captain on a Delta Transoceanic plane, the largest Delta flew. He made that.

Young pilots making 17K a year aren’t flying those same planes, but as their experience grows they will make a lot more than 17.

But you are basically right, which I was pointing out. The wages were far higher than the current market can bear, and so everyone is being scaled down.

My main point in the above was that those pilots had been scaled back about 50% on their wages, and the number of jobs were decreasing. I would expect further decreases in wages.

The UAW hasn’t had its top earners scaled by 50% as far as I know, but maybe someone else does know.

I will touch on a few points.

1. Why are there such stupid work rules and other excesses like totally 100% free medical?
2. Didn’t the company agree to these?

Yes to 1 and 2. The UAW represents all the auto workers, but it would choose to strike one company at a time. (Whip-sawing is the name.)
Say it struck Ford, well then Ford would stop working, and the managers would watch as the company approached failure but the other two American companies were still working picking up the slack. The UAW was doing much better because many of its workers were still going strong, and the strike fund was being filled. Most workers were still working in fact, overtime.

The company had to give in to things that would continue to bite them forever, but otherwise the managers would themselves be out of a job, the stockholders would hold worthless paper, etc., etc. This is where all this legacy built up over the years.

If the Union had had to strike the whole industry, then better decisions would have been made.

I have heard some say here that the UAW took over medical. What wasn’t said was that the money came from or still comes from the car companies. There is quite a lot of spin there.

Rayne, you bring up low starting wages of 12 to 15 dollars. Do you really believe that those wages are permanent? I forget what the schedule is, but those wages change in time. The next question is what jobs actually gets those wages.

You see, there are the myths or maybe just misunderstandings just like in a political campaign.
1. Low wages 12 to 15 dollars.
2. UAW pays for medical.
3. The company agreed to the rules so why should they complain, and certainly they shouldn’t dare go bankrupt.

I remember in a magazine once someone went back to the old steel mill towns, like Flint, and maybe Cleveland or somewhere near there.
They saw the old rusty empty mills, and the rundown neighborhoods.
They went in the bars during the day and there were the old steel workers most of whom had been had of work since the mills closed, and now on SS, Supplemental SS, medicare, medicaid, foodstamps, and the like.
They interviewed a lot of them.
This is typically how it went.

Do you regret striking and driving the mill out of business?
Hell no. We showed them they couldn’t push us around.

Heck even the airline pilots, some of which I knew on the carriers and the bars, are backing off. A transoceanic pilot that still has a job might make only 150K today rather than the 300K of a few years ago. A domestic might make 100K instead of the 200K a few years ago. Some pilots don’t have jobs. Yeah, I have heard ”Delta or United has ruined our lives” many, many times.

Granted the UAW workers aren’t up in that kind of stratosphere literally or figuratively, but they are actually showing far less resilience.

As for a loan. I can see that with the USA holding the first note, and a quick salary/wage adjustment all the way across the spectrum. The more you made the more drastic the cut. But a loan only with a cut in all wages and benefits or it is just a waste.

However I believe the UAW will act like those old steel workers. I am fairly certain of that. I hope I am proven wrong.

Anyways, the problem at hand is that the new deal doesn’t take place until 2010, and help is needed now. And what about that figure that the health care costs per vehicle is $2000 per car? Something has to give

I usually don’t agree with the financial wizards on CNBC but Jim Cramer at least tells the truth once in a while, to quote him recently ” if GM goes bankrupt you can all kiss you IRA’s goodbye”. So you Honda and Toyota lovers out there, just keep buying those cars, I am sure the Japanese Government will thank you.