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	<title>Comments on: More on Joementum</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/</link>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112477</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112477</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Emmanuel there to fill Aipac’s shoes&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emmanuel there to fill Aipac’s shoes</p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112475</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112475</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, the way I read the last couple days vis a vis Joe is that Reid would not have been public about his little meeting telling Joe the lay of the land if he did not have the votes to oust Joe from his Committee Chairmanship already in his vest pocket.  Reid is, after all, the Leader, and in the Senate Leadership depends on giving your word and sticking with it.  So right now the game should be — tell Democratic Senators to follow their own leader.  And while it may be news to Bayh, Indiana did go for Obama and the weight of the win came from Lake County.  He may not have made his calculations yet about his state’s changed environment.  He may not realize that Lieberman’s Obama bashing is not all that popular among his own electorate. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Reid enhances his own strength as a leader by carrying forward this pretty obvious bit of necessary party discipline.  Look — we have both ends of Penn Avenue now, and a huge agenda of stuff to get done, and we should have very little interest in independent prima donnas out there dancing to their own tunes.  Disciplining Joe is essentially lesson one in establishing the leader’s necessary power.  Reid needs to make clear that while everyone will be heard and their points considered, Majority Position means moving as a majority party group.  Yes, on some things it is best to construct bi-partisian coalitions — but that is not how a hard won majority acts given all the money and sweat equity party people have in winning in 06 and 08.  And Joe was working for the other side on all this — so he is disqualified.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At some juncture — perhaps not this one — we need to make a strong case that Joe’s “moralism” is fake.  If he is stripped of that veil, which he throws over everything where he finds disagreement, we reduce him to what he really is.  He always puts on the face of nearly crying over the pathetic human condition — but it is fake.  We need to find just the right situation for making that case.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think even without the chairmanship, he will try to stay in the Democratic Caucus, largely for quite practical reasons.  I doubt if his staff seriously wants to become real republican hill staffers.  They don’t have lots of cache these days, and there are very few jobs on K-Street for them.  For Former Democratic Hill Staffers, NPR is reporting starting salary at half a million.  Joe has to consider his staff in this, at least for the six months to a year that it will take for them to land peachy jobs off the Hill.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The more I think about Joe’s position — he made a bid on a key job and power in a McCain Administration, and the bid failed — I am thinking he may look around for an offer outside the Senate, and resign and let the Republican Governor appoint his replacement.  It would hurt the Dem’s (except we could have a special election in 2010) and with the proper job, Joe could get Rich.  He would not have to chair an inconsequential committee, sit in the back row in the Senate, do penance for disloyalty.  Maybe Fox News needs a new Chief Executive?  Something like that…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the way I read the last couple days vis a vis Joe is that Reid would not have been public about his little meeting telling Joe the lay of the land if he did not have the votes to oust Joe from his Committee Chairmanship already in his vest pocket.  Reid is, after all, the Leader, and in the Senate Leadership depends on giving your word and sticking with it.  So right now the game should be — tell Democratic Senators to follow their own leader.  And while it may be news to Bayh, Indiana did go for Obama and the weight of the win came from Lake County.  He may not have made his calculations yet about his state’s changed environment.  He may not realize that Lieberman’s Obama bashing is not all that popular among his own electorate. </p>
<p>Reid enhances his own strength as a leader by carrying forward this pretty obvious bit of necessary party discipline.  Look — we have both ends of Penn Avenue now, and a huge agenda of stuff to get done, and we should have very little interest in independent prima donnas out there dancing to their own tunes.  Disciplining Joe is essentially lesson one in establishing the leader’s necessary power.  Reid needs to make clear that while everyone will be heard and their points considered, Majority Position means moving as a majority party group.  Yes, on some things it is best to construct bi-partisian coalitions — but that is not how a hard won majority acts given all the money and sweat equity party people have in winning in 06 and 08.  And Joe was working for the other side on all this — so he is disqualified.  </p>
<p>At some juncture — perhaps not this one — we need to make a strong case that Joe’s “moralism” is fake.  If he is stripped of that veil, which he throws over everything where he finds disagreement, we reduce him to what he really is.  He always puts on the face of nearly crying over the pathetic human condition — but it is fake.  We need to find just the right situation for making that case.  </p>
<p>I think even without the chairmanship, he will try to stay in the Democratic Caucus, largely for quite practical reasons.  I doubt if his staff seriously wants to become real republican hill staffers.  They don’t have lots of cache these days, and there are very few jobs on K-Street for them.  For Former Democratic Hill Staffers, NPR is reporting starting salary at half a million.  Joe has to consider his staff in this, at least for the six months to a year that it will take for them to land peachy jobs off the Hill.  </p>
<p>The more I think about Joe’s position — he made a bid on a key job and power in a McCain Administration, and the bid failed — I am thinking he may look around for an offer outside the Senate, and resign and let the Republican Governor appoint his replacement.  It would hurt the Dem’s (except we could have a special election in 2010) and with the proper job, Joe could get Rich.  He would not have to chair an inconsequential committee, sit in the back row in the Senate, do penance for disloyalty.  Maybe Fox News needs a new Chief Executive?  Something like that…</p>
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		<title>By: BooRadley</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112420</link>
		<dc:creator>BooRadley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112420</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks ew. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://digg.com/politics/More_on_Joementum&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;digg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks ew. </p>
<p><a href="http://digg.com/politics/More_on_Joementum" rel="nofollow">digg</a></p>
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		<title>By: BooRadley</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112419</link>
		<dc:creator>BooRadley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:02:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112419</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Much appreciated.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112370</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 03:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112370</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;May or may not make that road easier; but the guy has earned your suggestion completely either way.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May or may not make that road easier; but the guy has earned your suggestion completely either way.</p>
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		<title>By: CTMET</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112365</link>
		<dc:creator>CTMET</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 03:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Joe will be 70 in 2012. I wonder whether he’ll want to run again in 2012. The only reason he was able to win in 2006 was because the republicans basically disowned their own candidate in favor of Joe. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Will they do that again in 2012? If not Joe’s only chance of being re-elected is to become a republican.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe will be 70 in 2012. I wonder whether he’ll want to run again in 2012. The only reason he was able to win in 2006 was because the republicans basically disowned their own candidate in favor of Joe. </p>
<p>Will they do that again in 2012? If not Joe’s only chance of being re-elected is to become a republican.</p>
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		<title>By: masaccio</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112355</link>
		<dc:creator>masaccio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree, he will not be our 60th vote unless he gets what he wants. I’d rather do business with the blue state repub senators than that weasel.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, he will not be our 60th vote unless he gets what he wants. I’d rather do business with the blue state repub senators than that weasel.</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112354</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;we plucked an elector vote out of NEBRASKA (the only time you’ll see me capitalize that word)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;FOOKIN NEBRASKA !!!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Fuck OFF and DIE joezoe&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we plucked an elector vote out of NEBRASKA (the only time you’ll see me capitalize that word)</p>
<p>FOOKIN NEBRASKA !!!</p>
<p>Fuck OFF and DIE joezoe</p>
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		<title>By: JTMinIA</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112312</link>
		<dc:creator>JTMinIA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 00:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112312</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, I do.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The problem is - or, rather, the good thing is - Obama would not.  But it sure would make the road to 60 easier, wouldn’t it?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I do.</p>
<p>The problem is &#8211; or, rather, the good thing is &#8211; Obama would not.  But it sure would make the road to 60 easier, wouldn’t it?</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/more-on-joementum/#comment-112293</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Heh heh, I kind of like that actually; think he’d go for it?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh heh, I kind of like that actually; think he’d go for it?</p>
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