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	<title>Comments on: McCain, Don&#8217;t You Think A Surge Might Have Been Better BEFORE People Voted?</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/</link>
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		<title>By: tbsa</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110123</link>
		<dc:creator>tbsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110123</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;But, but but…..&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But, but but…..</p>
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		<title>By: BillE</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110093</link>
		<dc:creator>BillE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110093</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The future Palintologists will marvel at the wreckage that has been created.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I hope Obama during his inaguration speech with the Chimperor watching pulls out an EO closing Gitmo and maybe a few other wipe his face in it moves and really lets him have it.  Then on day 2, extradites the whole lot of them to the Hague.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The future Palintologists will marvel at the wreckage that has been created.</p>
<p>I hope Obama during his inaguration speech with the Chimperor watching pulls out an EO closing Gitmo and maybe a few other wipe his face in it moves and really lets him have it.  Then on day 2, extradites the whole lot of them to the Hague.</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110035</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110035</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;and the BEST part about charging the bushistas for their illegal torture and imprisionmment is that IF anybody wants to defend george’s prisons and tactics, we use george’s prisons and tactics to CHANGE THEIR FUCKING MINDS&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;trust me&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I CAN convince you that this is a crime against humanity&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;you don’t want that …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;georgie porgie created one hell of a “Catch 22″ there, didn’t he ???&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and the BEST part about charging the bushistas for their illegal torture and imprisionmment is that IF anybody wants to defend george’s prisons and tactics, we use george’s prisons and tactics to CHANGE THEIR FUCKING MINDS</p>
<p>trust me</p>
<p>I CAN convince you that this is a crime against humanity</p>
<p>you don’t want that …</p>
<p>georgie porgie created one hell of a “Catch 22″ there, didn’t he ???</p>
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		<title>By: kspena</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110030</link>
		<dc:creator>kspena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110030</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That’s great. Do you think Crist might be part of a growing&lt;br /&gt;
number of ‘intellectual’ republicans who are positioning themselves to pick-up the pieces to rebuild the party? Margaret Carlson, among others, pointed to a growing divide between intellectuals and anti-intellectuals in the party a couple of days ago. I think she referred to the angst as a ‘battle’.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(24-spell-check, please…)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s great. Do you think Crist might be part of a growing<br />
number of ‘intellectual’ republicans who are positioning themselves to pick-up the pieces to rebuild the party? Margaret Carlson, among others, pointed to a growing divide between intellectuals and anti-intellectuals in the party a couple of days ago. I think she referred to the angst as a ‘battle’.</p>
<p>(24-spell-check, please…)</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110028</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110028</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;does anybody expect this farce to continue beyond January 20, 2009 ???&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;so what’s the fucking point ???&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;george bush’s show trials are an embarrasment to America, they serve no purpose. they will be suspended with prejudice the second presnit bunny pants leaves office&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;kinda makes you wonder why it took so long for these prosecutors to catch on&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;soon it will be time to try those who created these kangaroo courts&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;working for george bush is gonna be as healthy as working for stalin or hitler&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have NO SYMPATHY for anybody who participated in these trials&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;if false evidence was entered (under the LEGAL DEFINITION of evidence) we got laws to punish that&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;if false charges were proffered, we got laws …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;if illegal rulings were issued, we got laws …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the next presnit bunny pants ain’t gonna get any cooperation if we hang everybody who violated a law at the behest of george w bush&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;LETS HANG US SOME FUCKING LAWYERS&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>does anybody expect this farce to continue beyond January 20, 2009 ???</p>
<p>so what’s the fucking point ???</p>
<p>george bush’s show trials are an embarrasment to America, they serve no purpose. they will be suspended with prejudice the second presnit bunny pants leaves office</p>
<p>kinda makes you wonder why it took so long for these prosecutors to catch on</p>
<p>soon it will be time to try those who created these kangaroo courts</p>
<p>working for george bush is gonna be as healthy as working for stalin or hitler</p>
<p>I have NO SYMPATHY for anybody who participated in these trials</p>
<p>if false evidence was entered (under the LEGAL DEFINITION of evidence) we got laws to punish that</p>
<p>if false charges were proffered, we got laws …</p>
<p>if illegal rulings were issued, we got laws …</p>
<p>the next presnit bunny pants ain’t gonna get any cooperation if we hang everybody who violated a law at the behest of george w bush</p>
<p>LETS HANG US SOME FUCKING LAWYERS</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110025</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110025</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;26 - There’s a new ball in the game.  In a way, this one was the “easy” call (on a scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is hard, this was *only* a 10 for the lawyers and judge, others are going to be 13s and 15s).  The facts in this case allowed for a finding of torture involving the confession that was not, technically, US torture.  Those threats were made Afghans and generated the confession and so the judge didn’t need to look past the treatment in Afghan hand to the treatment in US hands to make the ruling on the confession.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m wondering how this jives with what the “clean teams” from the FBI may or may not have done with Jawad.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Unfortunately, we already have US precedent in Padilla and Salah (although those were not military cases) both allowing on the one hand, a long series of torture that was just on whim and for experimenation (not in connection with a confession) can just be ignored by a US court, even when applied to a US citizen on US soil.  And in Salah we have the ok for negating claims of torture by having identity concealed men who face no real perjury or obstruction threat of any kind give secret testimony that everything was fine.  IIRC, in Salah you had members of an agency that the Israeli S. Ct said had been engaging in torture, one of the kinds of torture they engaged in was sleep deprivation, the prisoner claimed sleep deprivation and even was able to get logs showing that he was kept out of the general detention at night, time after time, as support - - - and the prosecution presented to the court as “explanation” the hooded guys saying that, ‘oh yeah, did we forget to mention that Salah asked us to be allowed to sleep in the [no bed] interrogation room instead of having to go back, so we just did that to accomodate him’ and the court bit on that? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Still, to have a military commissions Judge be tougher than the whole of the legal corps at DOJ together and use a real definition applied to real facts, rather than backing into a definition that will get Bush what he wants and making up facts or just ignoring facts in application —- that’s really something. They deserve more than a book - they deserve someone to have to be accountable for the careers that were destroyed in standing up for the rule of law and they deserve a nation that appreciates their sacrifice and commitment and shows that appreciation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The world being what it is, I don’t truly believe they’ll get that, but I’ll send up my prayers for them and try to believe it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>26 &#8211; There’s a new ball in the game.  In a way, this one was the “easy” call (on a scale of 1 to 10, where 10 is hard, this was *only* a 10 for the lawyers and judge, others are going to be 13s and 15s).  The facts in this case allowed for a finding of torture involving the confession that was not, technically, US torture.  Those threats were made Afghans and generated the confession and so the judge didn’t need to look past the treatment in Afghan hand to the treatment in US hands to make the ruling on the confession.  </p>
<p>I’m wondering how this jives with what the “clean teams” from the FBI may or may not have done with Jawad.  </p>
<p>Unfortunately, we already have US precedent in Padilla and Salah (although those were not military cases) both allowing on the one hand, a long series of torture that was just on whim and for experimenation (not in connection with a confession) can just be ignored by a US court, even when applied to a US citizen on US soil.  And in Salah we have the ok for negating claims of torture by having identity concealed men who face no real perjury or obstruction threat of any kind give secret testimony that everything was fine.  IIRC, in Salah you had members of an agency that the Israeli S. Ct said had been engaging in torture, one of the kinds of torture they engaged in was sleep deprivation, the prisoner claimed sleep deprivation and even was able to get logs showing that he was kept out of the general detention at night, time after time, as support &#8211; - &#8211; and the prosecution presented to the court as “explanation” the hooded guys saying that, ‘oh yeah, did we forget to mention that Salah asked us to be allowed to sleep in the [no bed] interrogation room instead of having to go back, so we just did that to accomodate him’ and the court bit on that? </p>
<p>Still, to have a military commissions Judge be tougher than the whole of the legal corps at DOJ together and use a real definition applied to real facts, rather than backing into a definition that will get Bush what he wants and making up facts or just ignoring facts in application —- that’s really something. They deserve more than a book &#8211; they deserve someone to have to be accountable for the careers that were destroyed in standing up for the rule of law and they deserve a nation that appreciates their sacrifice and commitment and shows that appreciation.</p>
<p>The world being what it is, I don’t truly believe they’ll get that, but I’ll send up my prayers for them and try to believe it.</p>
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		<title>By: skdadl</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110024</link>
		<dc:creator>skdadl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110024</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Every one of these decisions helps. Jawad may be relevant to Khadr’s case, also delayed until January because the new judge accepted a defence argument for independent psychological evaluation. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s a nice zinger from Frakt, about Henley’s use of a serious definition of torture. That’s aimed directly at the structure and rules of the military commissions. I hope someone is writing a book about the JAGs and all they have done at GTMO — they deserve to be honoured.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every one of these decisions helps. Jawad may be relevant to Khadr’s case, also delayed until January because the new judge accepted a defence argument for independent psychological evaluation. </p>
<p>That’s a nice zinger from Frakt, about Henley’s use of a serious definition of torture. That’s aimed directly at the structure and rules of the military commissions. I hope someone is writing a book about the JAGs and all they have done at GTMO — they deserve to be honoured.</p>
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		<title>By: JimWhite</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110023</link>
		<dc:creator>JimWhite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 11:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110023</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Same for Biden.  His rally yesterday in Ocala, Florida was in a county the R’s haven’t won since 1976.  3500 showed up on a weekday morning when the temperatur was 40 [that’s freakin’ cold here, folks!]  And Senator Bill Nelson, during the warm-up, told us that the 11,000 at last week’s Michelle Obama rally in Gainesville (a dot of blue in a sea of red) was her largest rally of the entire campaign.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Top that with this wonder of wonders:  Charlie Crist, former butt-monkey for John McCain, issued an executive order yesterday extending early voting hours to 7 to 7 from the 9 to 5 for weekdays and forcing counties to add 12 more hours this weekend, also.  The R’s are not amused, but they have to be somewhat reserved in their comments because they can’t be too obvious about wanting to prevent voting. [It was the R legislature that put in the lame early voting hours.]&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Same for Biden.  His rally yesterday in Ocala, Florida was in a county the R’s haven’t won since 1976.  3500 showed up on a weekday morning when the temperatur was 40 [that’s freakin’ cold here, folks!]  And Senator Bill Nelson, during the warm-up, told us that the 11,000 at last week’s Michelle Obama rally in Gainesville (a dot of blue in a sea of red) was her largest rally of the entire campaign.</p>
<p>Top that with this wonder of wonders:  Charlie Crist, former butt-monkey for John McCain, issued an executive order yesterday extending early voting hours to 7 to 7 from the 9 to 5 for weekdays and forcing counties to add 12 more hours this weekend, also.  The R’s are not amused, but they have to be somewhat reserved in their comments because they can’t be too obvious about wanting to prevent voting. [It was the R legislature that put in the lame early voting hours.]</p>
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		<title>By: kspena</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110020</link>
		<dc:creator>kspena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 05:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110020</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;OT-Candy Crowley made an interesting observation tonight on CNN. She said that for the last few days that Obama has been appearing in some of the ‘reddist’ parts of the red states drawing hugh crowds.  It doesn’t matter where he goes now, hugh crowds appear… So refering to bmaz’s previous thread, let Obama go to the heart of the ‘reddist’ part of Arizona and draw hundred’s of thousands…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT-Candy Crowley made an interesting observation tonight on CNN. She said that for the last few days that Obama has been appearing in some of the ‘reddist’ parts of the red states drawing hugh crowds.  It doesn’t matter where he goes now, hugh crowds appear… So refering to bmaz’s previous thread, let Obama go to the heart of the ‘reddist’ part of Arizona and draw hundred’s of thousands…</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110017</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 05:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/28/mccain-dont-you-think-a-surge-might-have-been-better-before-people-voted/#comment-110017</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wow! Looks like Justice Henley eviscerated the prosecutors case unless they have some pretty substantial evidence otherwise.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! Looks like Justice Henley eviscerated the prosecutors case unless they have some pretty substantial evidence otherwise.</p>
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