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	<title>Comments on: A Second Ohio Prosecutor Threatens to Criminalize Voting</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/</link>
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		<title>By: toriielynnxo</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/comment-page-1/#comment-108187</link>
		<dc:creator>toriielynnxo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 01:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/#comment-108187</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey, check out this awesome video, ’Anyone can be VP’ It’s great!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exiyBYnJ00&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exiyBYnJ00&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, check out this awesome video, ’Anyone can be VP’ It’s great!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exiyBYnJ00" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exiyBYnJ00</a></p>
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		<title>By: KyleSeymour</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/comment-page-1/#comment-108169</link>
		<dc:creator>KyleSeymour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/#comment-108169</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exiyBYnJ00&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exiyBYnJ00&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;check this shit out&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exiyBYnJ00" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exiyBYnJ00</a></p>
<p>check this shit out</p>
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		<title>By: fatstuff17</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/comment-page-1/#comment-108167</link>
		<dc:creator>fatstuff17</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 23:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/#comment-108167</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;hahah take a look at this.&lt;br /&gt;
it’s called “anyone can be VP”&lt;br /&gt;
about sarah palin, of course :]&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exiyBYnJ00&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exiyBYnJ00&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hahah take a look at this.<br />
it’s called “anyone can be VP”<br />
about sarah palin, of course :]<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exiyBYnJ00" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exiyBYnJ00</a></p>
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		<title>By: randiego</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/comment-page-1/#comment-108131</link>
		<dc:creator>randiego</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/#comment-108131</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;wait a second… by issuing subpoenas for these records, won’t the Republicans (Hamilton Cty Ohio) find out what the early vote tally’s are?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Isn’t this part of their scheme? A way to see how the early vote process hurts them?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wait a second… by issuing subpoenas for these records, won’t the Republicans (Hamilton Cty Ohio) find out what the early vote tally’s are?</p>
<p>Isn’t this part of their scheme? A way to see how the early vote process hurts them?</p>
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		<title>By: urbanmeemaw</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/comment-page-1/#comment-108115</link>
		<dc:creator>urbanmeemaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/#comment-108115</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yesterday’s Cincinnati Stenographer delivered a one-two punch yesterday about “voter fraud” - a front page top of the fold “story” followed by a screed by Peter Bronson, resident wingnut welfare hack on the editorial page (”Jennifer Brunner gave Ohio a black eye”). When I heard about Deters’ “Grand Jury” investigation the stories made sense. It sounds to me like this is coordinated with the events in Green County. Deters is also Hamilton County chair of the McCain/Palin campaign. Any suggestions from anyone regarding what can be done?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yesterday’s Cincinnati Stenographer delivered a one-two punch yesterday about “voter fraud” &#8211; a front page top of the fold “story” followed by a screed by Peter Bronson, resident wingnut welfare hack on the editorial page (”Jennifer Brunner gave Ohio a black eye”). When I heard about Deters’ “Grand Jury” investigation the stories made sense. It sounds to me like this is coordinated with the events in Green County. Deters is also Hamilton County chair of the McCain/Palin campaign. Any suggestions from anyone regarding what can be done?</p>
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		<title>By: gtomkins</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/comment-page-1/#comment-108106</link>
		<dc:creator>gtomkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/#comment-108106</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Spoofing the election&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Leaving to one side the largely imponderable possibility of stealing elections through the “black box” of a computerized system that lacks a paper audit trail, it is difficult to poach large numbers of votes without a conspiracy so large as to be highly vulnerable to discovery.  If there is an audit trail, there is usually a set of procedures in place that keeps individuals from stealing more than a very few votes at the margins except in jurisdictions where the auditing procedures are systematically bypassed or ignored.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But the very complexity of the rules and procedures needed to keep elections hard to steal, leave them more vulnerable to spoofing.  The Republicans seem to be implementing a strategy of harping on marginal violations in some of these procedures.  Most people seem to assume that the only purpose is to intimidate those who might seek, like ACORN, to register voters, or, as in this Ohio case, to intimidate voters away from early voting, which mostly favors the Democrats.  Without detracting from this explanation, there are other potential benefits to their side from this spoofing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obviously, they are also trying to delegitimize the results of an election that they are probably going to lose.  They will be able to blame the loss on Democratric cheating.  But the goal further down this same road, if the arguments for Democratic cheating could be made firm enough to make it in actual courts, as opposed to the court of a media world ruled by Drudge.  That gap, once admittedly uncrossable, should not be considered so unbridgeable in the light of the Bush v Gore decision.  It is not unreasonable to think that the SC would give McCain the presidency if only the other side’s lawyers can get a chance to place an even half-way legally plausible argument in front of them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The role of trhe low-grade spoofing we hav seen so far may be to simply form parts of a larger pattern f alleged conspiracy.  MCain has already accused ACORN of such a conspiracy.  Higher-grade spoofing would presumably follow. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Consider just one example of the sort of higher-grade spoofing they could deploy.  My state, VA, doesn’t really maintain very tough security of its voting machines.  The warehouse in which they are stored, at least in Fairfax, is pretty lax, and after the warehouse, the machines are housed at the individual polling places in hundreds of even less secure janitor’s closets.  It would not be difficult for the other side to get to a few of the new optical scanners to run a few hundred ballots through each of them before election day.  Now, they wouldn’t do this in order to run McCain ballots, because stealing votes this way would be frustrated when the zero tape is run at the beginning of Election Day, and, even if the zero tape showing more than zero votes were ignored by officials in on the steal, other members of the conspiracy would need to get hundreds of extra names checked off the poll books to make the numbers come out right.  The spoofers would instead run Obama ballots through the scanners.  They would rely on these illegally cast Obama votes being discovered at the beginning of the voting day, and having this apparent Obama fraud publicized.  This publicity alone could get them enough votes to swing a close election.  Even better for their purposes, the discrepency on the zero tapes at some precincts might not be caught at opening (the optical scanners are new to VA this year), and would be discovered only at the end of the day when hundreds more votes are tallied on the closing tape than were crossd off the poll books.  Failure to catch it at opening would not only create the impression that election officers at that precinct were involved in a conspiracy, but would put the entire result from that precinct in legal limbo, again threatening to reverse a close election. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;More extreme spoofs like this one would accomplish the lesser goals, intimidation of voters and delegitimization of results, more effectively, but also offer perhaps the only chance of a judicial steal they have for an election that probably will not offer a repeat of 2000’s freakishly close result.  They almost certainly would be able to get a case to the Supreme Court if the election is so close that it would be reversed by flipping one state, because one state is almost certan to have a result within 0.5%, and therefore legally contestable in most states.  But that seems unlikely this year.  It would probably take several states’ worth of flipped EC votes to reverse this election.  To get there, the SC would have to bring out some theories even more novel than those used to justify Bush v Gore.  The only way that would work, in terms of Congress not being goaded into asserting its authority over presidential elections, would be in the setting of an at least plausible picture of systematic Democratic voting fraud.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spoofing the election</p>
<p>Leaving to one side the largely imponderable possibility of stealing elections through the “black box” of a computerized system that lacks a paper audit trail, it is difficult to poach large numbers of votes without a conspiracy so large as to be highly vulnerable to discovery.  If there is an audit trail, there is usually a set of procedures in place that keeps individuals from stealing more than a very few votes at the margins except in jurisdictions where the auditing procedures are systematically bypassed or ignored.</p>
<p>But the very complexity of the rules and procedures needed to keep elections hard to steal, leave them more vulnerable to spoofing.  The Republicans seem to be implementing a strategy of harping on marginal violations in some of these procedures.  Most people seem to assume that the only purpose is to intimidate those who might seek, like ACORN, to register voters, or, as in this Ohio case, to intimidate voters away from early voting, which mostly favors the Democrats.  Without detracting from this explanation, there are other potential benefits to their side from this spoofing.</p>
<p>Obviously, they are also trying to delegitimize the results of an election that they are probably going to lose.  They will be able to blame the loss on Democratric cheating.  But the goal further down this same road, if the arguments for Democratic cheating could be made firm enough to make it in actual courts, as opposed to the court of a media world ruled by Drudge.  That gap, once admittedly uncrossable, should not be considered so unbridgeable in the light of the Bush v Gore decision.  It is not unreasonable to think that the SC would give McCain the presidency if only the other side’s lawyers can get a chance to place an even half-way legally plausible argument in front of them.</p>
<p>The role of trhe low-grade spoofing we hav seen so far may be to simply form parts of a larger pattern f alleged conspiracy.  MCain has already accused ACORN of such a conspiracy.  Higher-grade spoofing would presumably follow. </p>
<p>Consider just one example of the sort of higher-grade spoofing they could deploy.  My state, VA, doesn’t really maintain very tough security of its voting machines.  The warehouse in which they are stored, at least in Fairfax, is pretty lax, and after the warehouse, the machines are housed at the individual polling places in hundreds of even less secure janitor’s closets.  It would not be difficult for the other side to get to a few of the new optical scanners to run a few hundred ballots through each of them before election day.  Now, they wouldn’t do this in order to run McCain ballots, because stealing votes this way would be frustrated when the zero tape is run at the beginning of Election Day, and, even if the zero tape showing more than zero votes were ignored by officials in on the steal, other members of the conspiracy would need to get hundreds of extra names checked off the poll books to make the numbers come out right.  The spoofers would instead run Obama ballots through the scanners.  They would rely on these illegally cast Obama votes being discovered at the beginning of the voting day, and having this apparent Obama fraud publicized.  This publicity alone could get them enough votes to swing a close election.  Even better for their purposes, the discrepency on the zero tapes at some precincts might not be caught at opening (the optical scanners are new to VA this year), and would be discovered only at the end of the day when hundreds more votes are tallied on the closing tape than were crossd off the poll books.  Failure to catch it at opening would not only create the impression that election officers at that precinct were involved in a conspiracy, but would put the entire result from that precinct in legal limbo, again threatening to reverse a close election. </p>
<p>More extreme spoofs like this one would accomplish the lesser goals, intimidation of voters and delegitimization of results, more effectively, but also offer perhaps the only chance of a judicial steal they have for an election that probably will not offer a repeat of 2000’s freakishly close result.  They almost certainly would be able to get a case to the Supreme Court if the election is so close that it would be reversed by flipping one state, because one state is almost certan to have a result within 0.5%, and therefore legally contestable in most states.  But that seems unlikely this year.  It would probably take several states’ worth of flipped EC votes to reverse this election.  To get there, the SC would have to bring out some theories even more novel than those used to justify Bush v Gore.  The only way that would work, in terms of Congress not being goaded into asserting its authority over presidential elections, would be in the setting of an at least plausible picture of systematic Democratic voting fraud.</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/comment-page-1/#comment-108101</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/#comment-108101</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;didn’t we know it was gonna get ugly ???&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;in the electronic age, shredders just won’t save your sorry ass any more (though dead eye dick ain’t figured that out yet)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;these criminal fucks are gettin desperate&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and desperate crooks get sloppy (speaking from personal experience)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;they’re droppin crumbs of evidence ALL OVER THE PLACE&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the way I see it, george bush is gonna have to invent some sort of OMNI-PARDON&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;something that excuses past crimes and the future crimes needed to hide the past crimes&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;wanna bet dead eye dick and turd blossom pull a doozy out of their ass on November 5th ???&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>didn’t we know it was gonna get ugly ???</p>
<p>in the electronic age, shredders just won’t save your sorry ass any more (though dead eye dick ain’t figured that out yet)</p>
<p>these criminal fucks are gettin desperate</p>
<p>and desperate crooks get sloppy (speaking from personal experience)</p>
<p>they’re droppin crumbs of evidence ALL OVER THE PLACE</p>
<p>the way I see it, george bush is gonna have to invent some sort of OMNI-PARDON</p>
<p>something that excuses past crimes and the future crimes needed to hide the past crimes</p>
<p>wanna bet dead eye dick and turd blossom pull a doozy out of their ass on November 5th ???</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/comment-page-1/#comment-108094</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/#comment-108094</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Can Obama  use campaign dollars to get voters to DMV’s to get ID’s?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can Obama  use campaign dollars to get voters to DMV’s to get ID’s?</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/comment-page-1/#comment-108090</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/#comment-108090</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;link to synposis above&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=13608&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.bluemassgroup.com/s.....ryId=13608&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>link to synposis above<br /><a href="http://www.bluemassgroup.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=13608" rel="nofollow">http://www.bluemassgroup.com/s&#8230;..ryId=13608</a></p>
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		<title>By: Knut</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/comment-page-1/#comment-108088</link>
		<dc:creator>Knut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 18:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/20/a-second-ohio-prosecutor-threatens-to-criminalize-voting/#comment-108088</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Antioch College is in Greene County (Yellow Springs).  In the old days, we were used to seeing FBI operatives on campus looking for ’subversives.’  This is more of the same.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antioch College is in Greene County (Yellow Springs).  In the old days, we were used to seeing FBI operatives on campus looking for ’subversives.’  This is more of the same.</p>
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