<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: McCain&#8217;s Lawyer Shell Game</title>
	<atom:link href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:51:59 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-104560</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/#comment-104560</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I just do not get how congress or was that a special counsel that pulled in all the hot shots during Watergate. How did they make Clinton testify under oath&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just do not get how congress or was that a special counsel that pulled in all the hot shots during Watergate. How did they make Clinton testify under oath</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: LabDancer</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-104479</link>
		<dc:creator>LabDancer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 01:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/#comment-104479</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Also bmaz @ 26 et al: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Judge Tatel [Y’all remember him from Fitz’ enforcing subpoenas in US v Libby.] agreed with the other two members on the threshold [and maybe pretty technical looking, if YANAL at least] question of the court having jurisdiction, IE whether Miers and Bolten had a right of appeal from Judge Bates’ order.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But Judge Tatel dissented - strongly doesn’t capture it: foundationally? - on the practical relief Miers and Bolten [well, really Bush and Rove et al] were seeking.&lt;br /&gt;
Judge Tatel asserted that the court had NEVER EVER BEFORE granted a stay SOLELY on the ground of mootness.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If I was counsel for the House and was listening to Tatel suggest that, I’m sure I’d be tempted to say something like: Thanks for the good thought, but please, no thanks for the reasoning. Even this dissent holds potential further value if the next Congress wants to use any part of the record of the current Congress; Miers and Bolten could argue not just “nullity” but also “mootness” on the implication that all 3 members of the committee were thinking mootness. So Congress effectively has to start all over again with these two, and they get to take the position that past isn’t even prologue.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also bmaz @ 26 et al: </p>
<p>Judge Tatel [Y’all remember him from Fitz’ enforcing subpoenas in US v Libby.] agreed with the other two members on the threshold [and maybe pretty technical looking, if YANAL at least] question of the court having jurisdiction, IE whether Miers and Bolten had a right of appeal from Judge Bates’ order.</p>
<p>But Judge Tatel dissented &#8211; strongly doesn’t capture it: foundationally? &#8211; on the practical relief Miers and Bolten [well, really Bush and Rove et al] were seeking.<br />
Judge Tatel asserted that the court had NEVER EVER BEFORE granted a stay SOLELY on the ground of mootness.</p>
<p>If I was counsel for the House and was listening to Tatel suggest that, I’m sure I’d be tempted to say something like: Thanks for the good thought, but please, no thanks for the reasoning. Even this dissent holds potential further value if the next Congress wants to use any part of the record of the current Congress; Miers and Bolten could argue not just “nullity” but also “mootness” on the implication that all 3 members of the committee were thinking mootness. So Congress effectively has to start all over again with these two, and they get to take the position that past isn’t even prologue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-104424</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/#comment-104424</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;thanks&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-104418</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/#comment-104418</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The circuit court is saying  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A.  Only “this” Congress can have issued “these” subpoenas, so when this Congress is gone, the subpoenas evaporate.  The subpoenas may get reissued by the next Congress, but this Congress will be gone (and don’t we all, in our heart of hearts - wish that were true, that they would all be gone with Pelosi and Hoyer leading the march of the lemmings?)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;B.  This Congress sat on their hands and waited until pretty late in the game before trying to get review and now they are coming to us to try to get the court to set up superfast expedited review schedules to squeeze in review before this Congress is no more.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;C. [Going into speculation land] Even if we, the court, were to agree to expedited review, it wouldn’t matter bc we think and the Congressional committee agrees that then there will be requests for en banc and for the Sup Ct to review and of course cert will be granted and of course all of that will take longer than there is left in this Congress.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;D.  So, based upon all our spec about what might happen in C above, we are going to say we don’t have to hustle bc it doesn’t matter bc it wouldn’t get done in time anyway.  Oh, and besides, it might be that we are wrong and the Congress ending doesn’t moot the ultimate point, but if we are, then it doesn’t really matter when THAT determination is made, bc, it will be making the law on the issue irrespective of mootness.  If that were to happen (basically, they are talking about a Roe v Wade type of decision, where the court said that while, by the time a case would reach the Sup Ct, someone is already going to have had either a baby or an abortion, the case wasn’t moot bc a determination was needed and the factual setting would never allow for a case to reach full review prior to resolution of the facts in the case in controversy) &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Why the circuit didn’t think it would be worth trying to make a resolution while the Congress was still around and presume that no other appeal would be timely granted to interfere with the subpoenas - they aren’t real clear on that, but bmaz is right, this is really all at the feet of the two years of the Pelosi controlled House. They’ve been worse than pathetic.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;BTW - Mukasey paid a lot of attention to the Judiciary Committee input to slow down on his new rules too.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ibls.com/internet_law_news_portal_view.aspx?s=sa&amp;id=1411&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.ibls.com/internet_l.....38;id=1411&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I believe the legal terminology is “nanner nanner nanner”  *sigh*    &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The thought of another Pelosi led House makes me ill. I’d almost rather listen to Palin’s inane prattle.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The circuit court is saying  </p>
<p>A.  Only “this” Congress can have issued “these” subpoenas, so when this Congress is gone, the subpoenas evaporate.  The subpoenas may get reissued by the next Congress, but this Congress will be gone (and don’t we all, in our heart of hearts &#8211; wish that were true, that they would all be gone with Pelosi and Hoyer leading the march of the lemmings?)</p>
<p>B.  This Congress sat on their hands and waited until pretty late in the game before trying to get review and now they are coming to us to try to get the court to set up superfast expedited review schedules to squeeze in review before this Congress is no more.</p>
<p>C. [Going into speculation land] Even if we, the court, were to agree to expedited review, it wouldn’t matter bc we think and the Congressional committee agrees that then there will be requests for en banc and for the Sup Ct to review and of course cert will be granted and of course all of that will take longer than there is left in this Congress.  </p>
<p>D.  So, based upon all our spec about what might happen in C above, we are going to say we don’t have to hustle bc it doesn’t matter bc it wouldn’t get done in time anyway.  Oh, and besides, it might be that we are wrong and the Congress ending doesn’t moot the ultimate point, but if we are, then it doesn’t really matter when THAT determination is made, bc, it will be making the law on the issue irrespective of mootness.  If that were to happen (basically, they are talking about a Roe v Wade type of decision, where the court said that while, by the time a case would reach the Sup Ct, someone is already going to have had either a baby or an abortion, the case wasn’t moot bc a determination was needed and the factual setting would never allow for a case to reach full review prior to resolution of the facts in the case in controversy) </p>
<p>Why the circuit didn’t think it would be worth trying to make a resolution while the Congress was still around and presume that no other appeal would be timely granted to interfere with the subpoenas &#8211; they aren’t real clear on that, but bmaz is right, this is really all at the feet of the two years of the Pelosi controlled House. They’ve been worse than pathetic.</p>
<p>BTW &#8211; Mukasey paid a lot of attention to the Judiciary Committee input to slow down on his new rules too.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ibls.com/internet_law_news_portal_view.aspx?s=sa&amp;id=1411" rel="nofollow">http://www.ibls.com/internet_l&#8230;..38;id=1411</a></p>
<p>I believe the legal terminology is “nanner nanner nanner”  *sigh*    </p>
<p>The thought of another Pelosi led House makes me ill. I’d almost rather listen to Palin’s inane prattle.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-104411</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/#comment-104411</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Does this mean this decision stands and does not keep moving up to the next level as quickly as possible?   What would a congress who takes their oversight responsibilities do with this (partisan) decision?   How quickly and responsibly can congress push this up to the Supreme Court? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; One would think they would be concerned about the lack of faith that the American public have in congress and the Supreme Court would be enough of a reason to move this up the ladder quickly.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I left a small rental house that I owned untreated for termites and that house crumbled in no time.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does this mean this decision stands and does not keep moving up to the next level as quickly as possible?   What would a congress who takes their oversight responsibilities do with this (partisan) decision?   How quickly and responsibly can congress push this up to the Supreme Court? </p>
<p> One would think they would be concerned about the lack of faith that the American public have in congress and the Supreme Court would be enough of a reason to move this up the ladder quickly.  </p>
<p>I left a small rental house that I owned untreated for termites and that house crumbled in no time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-104410</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/#comment-104410</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No need for Hoyers and Pelosi to wonder why the American public has no faith in congress.  Obvious they do not give a rat’s ass.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No need for Hoyers and Pelosi to wonder why the American public has no faith in congress.  Obvious they do not give a rat’s ass.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-104409</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/#comment-104409</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Will make sure that all of the peasants I know hear about this decision because this will more than likely pass under the MSM’s radar.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will make sure that all of the peasants I know hear about this decision because this will more than likely pass under the MSM’s radar.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: iremember54</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-104408</link>
		<dc:creator>iremember54</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/#comment-104408</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s funny Bob Bennet always seems to be there when some Republican has done some wrong to get them off. McCain was guity then but never got to a court of law because of Bob Bennet. McCain ever sense has felt he can do as he pleases, and claiming he is sorry can just make everything right. Lawyer are tearing the law of this Country apart and making a joke of everything we stand for. Remember it was lawyers that said we could torture prisoners, and that it was alright to spy on Americans. McCain has the guts to talk of other members of congress in federal prison when he should have went there himself. Republicans made me sick during the impeachment case against Clinton because every other word out of their mouths was the rule of law. Yet the rule of law never means anything when one of their own is involved in something of question. The American people are to dumb to notice what really goes on and thats the saddest part of the whole thing. Other than the fact a large part of the population would make McCain the President of our Country believing he is lilly white.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s funny Bob Bennet always seems to be there when some Republican has done some wrong to get them off. McCain was guity then but never got to a court of law because of Bob Bennet. McCain ever sense has felt he can do as he pleases, and claiming he is sorry can just make everything right. Lawyer are tearing the law of this Country apart and making a joke of everything we stand for. Remember it was lawyers that said we could torture prisoners, and that it was alright to spy on Americans. McCain has the guts to talk of other members of congress in federal prison when he should have went there himself. Republicans made me sick during the impeachment case against Clinton because every other word out of their mouths was the rule of law. Yet the rule of law never means anything when one of their own is involved in something of question. The American people are to dumb to notice what really goes on and thats the saddest part of the whole thing. Other than the fact a large part of the population would make McCain the President of our Country believing he is lilly white.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-104407</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/#comment-104407</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Mary obviously I am just a concerned citizen and basically a peasant trying to figure some things out.  What the hell does this mean&lt;br /&gt;
“In view of the above considerations, we see no reason to set the appeal on an expedited briefing and oral argument schedule.  If the case becomes moot, we would be wasting the time of the court and parties”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;waste of time..WASTE OF TIME.  When is seeking justice a waste of time?  When the public sees that those in the Bush administration can act above the law and not answer to congressional subpoenas, where is this balance of powers that they were talking about.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sure does not appear to be much balance in that decision.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary obviously I am just a concerned citizen and basically a peasant trying to figure some things out.  What the hell does this mean<br />
“In view of the above considerations, we see no reason to set the appeal on an expedited briefing and oral argument schedule.  If the case becomes moot, we would be wasting the time of the court and parties”</p>
<p>waste of time..WASTE OF TIME.  When is seeking justice a waste of time?  When the public sees that those in the Bush administration can act above the law and not answer to congressional subpoenas, where is this balance of powers that they were talking about.</p>
<p>Sure does not appear to be much balance in that decision.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-104406</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/06/mccains-lawyer-shell-game/#comment-104406</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Last I heard consummate can down the road kicking was not an affirmative duty in the judicial canons.  This is fucked up.  Basically “We’re going to presume further appeal which we are going to presume will take us past the moot date of Congress turn over - and VIOLA - it is already therefore effectively moot.  Buh bye, gotta go lunch and martini now!”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is a disgrace, but the real fault lies with Pelosi, Hoyer et.al as they intentionally strung this out to an extent that pretty much compels the conclusion that this is the precise result they desired.  The dicked off all kinds of time in doing it, and completely rejected common sense and even Bates’ advice that they needed to man up and exercise their Constitutional prerogatives.  Fuckers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;By the way, why the hell would “The Committee” admit this?  WTF is wrong with them?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But the Committee recognizes that, even if expedited, this controversy will not be fully and finally resolved by the&lt;br /&gt;
Judicial Branch—including resolution by a panel and possible rehearing by this court en banc and by the Supreme Court—before the 110th Congress ends on January 3, 2009. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last I heard consummate can down the road kicking was not an affirmative duty in the judicial canons.  This is fucked up.  Basically “We’re going to presume further appeal which we are going to presume will take us past the moot date of Congress turn over &#8211; and VIOLA &#8211; it is already therefore effectively moot.  Buh bye, gotta go lunch and martini now!”</p>
<p>This is a disgrace, but the real fault lies with Pelosi, Hoyer et.al as they intentionally strung this out to an extent that pretty much compels the conclusion that this is the precise result they desired.  The dicked off all kinds of time in doing it, and completely rejected common sense and even Bates’ advice that they needed to man up and exercise their Constitutional prerogatives.  Fuckers.</p>
<p>By the way, why the hell would “The Committee” admit this?  WTF is wrong with them?</p>
<blockquote>
<p>But the Committee recognizes that, even if expedited, this controversy will not be fully and finally resolved by the<br />
Judicial Branch—including resolution by a panel and possible rehearing by this court en banc and by the Supreme Court—before the 110th Congress ends on January 3, 2009. </p>
</blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
