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	<title>Comments on: Fourth Branch Sarah</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/</link>
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		<title>By: brantl</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104260</link>
		<dc:creator>brantl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 15:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104260</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;See, at first when Palin said this, I was immediately horrified by the thought of someone with the power of Dick Cheney, but the ignorance and incompetence of Sarah Palin–a sure recipe for disaster.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt; The only real difference is the incomptence, which might, after all, be self-limiting. Cheney was just as stupid, both of them think that they’re so bright that they don’t check the validity of the “facts” that lead to their opinions. She’s just Cheney in drag with a face lift, getting by on her looks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>See, at first when Palin said this, I was immediately horrified by the thought of someone with the power of Dick Cheney, but the ignorance and incompetence of Sarah Palin–a sure recipe for disaster.</p>
</blockquote>
<p> The only real difference is the incomptence, which might, after all, be self-limiting. Cheney was just as stupid, both of them think that they’re so bright that they don’t check the validity of the “facts” that lead to their opinions. She’s just Cheney in drag with a face lift, getting by on her looks.</p>
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		<title>By: LangostinoHues</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104149</link>
		<dc:creator>LangostinoHues</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104149</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Scene Setup&lt;br /&gt;
Time:&lt;br /&gt;
 Christmas Morning, 3:41 AM&lt;br /&gt;
Place:&lt;br /&gt;
 Household immortalized by “Calvin and Hobbes” strip*&lt;br /&gt;
 *(sorry, more detailed info not available; c.f. Comic Strip Character Privacy Act, 1988)&lt;br /&gt;
Action:&lt;br /&gt;
 Calvin, furiously pounding down staircase, all the while chanting maniacally ‘BoyOboyOboyOboy…’&lt;br /&gt;
 Hobbes, tiptoeing in pursuit, on lookout for grownups, casting nervous glances back up the stairs&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Calvin:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
“Hmmm, I got, lessee, three presents, so far. THREE!? Is that ALL? Somebody must’ve squealed on me! No fair, it wasn’t me, I was framed, I… wait …From bmaz …From emptywheel … Wow, those guys are my heroes! What’s this other one…some guy that dances with dogs? Weird! But still, pretty cool. No, that’s REALLY cool! Hey, Hobbes, we’re RICH! Bwahaha, RIIICH!
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks to all who responded to my Inaugural Comment posting. Wow, I love you guys!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for the rest who have NOT seen fit to respond… well, I love you guys, too. No, really. (Trolls, not so much.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It seems like I have been lurking around FDL since &lt;i&gt;forever&lt;/i&gt;, but really only since about early 2006. FDL was my home page for a long time; it had a great blogroll, back in the day, from which I could keep tabs on all the DFH sites, with Firedoglake always open in the Home window. After the redesign, the blogrolls became all balkanized and I had to move out to maintain my &lt;i&gt;modus surferandi&lt;/i&gt;, but I still spend literally hours here each day, every day, poring over the posts and the comments, getting to where I feel like I know many of you personally, and have for years. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Only, like, not really. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A typical manifestation of &lt;i&gt;Loerker’s syndrome&lt;/i&gt;, I suppose, where the subject has retired and relocated to new city, and where his circle of real-life acquaintances has contracted to a total of 6 (count ‘em) people, none of whom can be said to share the subject’s tendency toward &lt;i&gt;techno-geek DFH-dom&lt;/i&gt;. In response, the subject says “Fuck you guys, I’m goin’ home”, and abandons life in the real world, in favor of an on-line existence among interesting, intelligent and just generally more awesome folks than the extras with which Central Casting has seen fit to populate his off-line &lt;i&gt;milieu&lt;/i&gt;. In his on-line persona, however, he was both invisible and mute — in other words, totally lame.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Well, folks, that’s about it for this episode of &lt;i&gt;The Lone Lurker&lt;/i&gt;. Tune in for future exciting installments, as they occur. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;(This episode made possible by RBG, sysop exraordinaire, at &lt;b&gt;fadmin_at_firedoglake.com&lt;/b&gt;, who resolved the snafu which kept me from being able to create a login account here, and in a more just world would be given a big, fat raise.)&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i><br />
Scene Setup<br />
Time:<br />
 Christmas Morning, 3:41 AM<br />
Place:<br />
 Household immortalized by “Calvin and Hobbes” strip*<br />
 *(sorry, more detailed info not available; c.f. Comic Strip Character Privacy Act, 1988)<br />
Action:<br />
 Calvin, furiously pounding down staircase, all the while chanting maniacally ‘BoyOboyOboyOboy…’<br />
 Hobbes, tiptoeing in pursuit, on lookout for grownups, casting nervous glances back up the stairs</i></p>
<p>Calvin:</p>
<blockquote><p>
“Hmmm, I got, lessee, three presents, so far. THREE!? Is that ALL? Somebody must’ve squealed on me! No fair, it wasn’t me, I was framed, I… wait …From bmaz …From emptywheel … Wow, those guys are my heroes! What’s this other one…some guy that dances with dogs? Weird! But still, pretty cool. No, that’s REALLY cool! Hey, Hobbes, we’re RICH! Bwahaha, RIIICH!
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Thanks to all who responded to my Inaugural Comment posting. Wow, I love you guys!</p>
<p>As for the rest who have NOT seen fit to respond… well, I love you guys, too. No, really. (Trolls, not so much.)</p>
<p>It seems like I have been lurking around FDL since <i>forever</i>, but really only since about early 2006. FDL was my home page for a long time; it had a great blogroll, back in the day, from which I could keep tabs on all the DFH sites, with Firedoglake always open in the Home window. After the redesign, the blogrolls became all balkanized and I had to move out to maintain my <i>modus surferandi</i>, but I still spend literally hours here each day, every day, poring over the posts and the comments, getting to where I feel like I know many of you personally, and have for years. </p>
<p>Only, like, not really. </p>
<p>A typical manifestation of <i>Loerker’s syndrome</i>, I suppose, where the subject has retired and relocated to new city, and where his circle of real-life acquaintances has contracted to a total of 6 (count ‘em) people, none of whom can be said to share the subject’s tendency toward <i>techno-geek DFH-dom</i>. In response, the subject says “Fuck you guys, I’m goin’ home”, and abandons life in the real world, in favor of an on-line existence among interesting, intelligent and just generally more awesome folks than the extras with which Central Casting has seen fit to populate his off-line <i>milieu</i>. In his on-line persona, however, he was both invisible and mute — in other words, totally lame.</p>
<p>Well, folks, that’s about it for this episode of <i>The Lone Lurker</i>. Tune in for future exciting installments, as they occur. </p>
<p><i>(This episode made possible by RBG, sysop exraordinaire, at <b>fadmin_at_firedoglake.com</b>, who resolved the snafu which kept me from being able to create a login account here, and in a more just world would be given a big, fat raise.)</i></p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104102</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 16:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104102</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Palin is a heather.  All Republicans are heathers actually.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Palin is a heather.  All Republicans are heathers actually.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: 4jkb4ia</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104097</link>
		<dc:creator>4jkb4ia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104097</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Response to Leen at 30&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Response to Leen at 30</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104096</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104096</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Welcome!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m just gonna keep working on that tsunami.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome!</p>
<p>I’m just gonna keep working on that tsunami.</p>
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		<title>By: 4jkb4ia</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104095</link>
		<dc:creator>4jkb4ia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104095</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“There was a time when conservatives lamented the dumbing down of American culture. Preservation of basic standards in schools and workplaces compelled them — or so they said — to resist affirmative action for women and minorities. Qualifications mattered; merit mattered; and demagogic appeals for leveling were to be left to the Democrats. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not anymore.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This was my response to the Peggy Noonan thing. Peggy Noonan almost certainly knows people like this, who are what I suppose you could call Heather McDonald conservatives. If you have distanced yourself from the very liberal intellectual trends Noonan was making fun of because “illiterates” (McDonald’s word) are shaping them, it is consistent to be appalled when a vice-presidential candidate seems uninformed and cannot speak English. The “real America” has more than one race you know.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“There was a time when conservatives lamented the dumbing down of American culture. Preservation of basic standards in schools and workplaces compelled them — or so they said — to resist affirmative action for women and minorities. Qualifications mattered; merit mattered; and demagogic appeals for leveling were to be left to the Democrats. </p>
<p>Not anymore.”</p>
<p>This was my response to the Peggy Noonan thing. Peggy Noonan almost certainly knows people like this, who are what I suppose you could call Heather McDonald conservatives. If you have distanced yourself from the very liberal intellectual trends Noonan was making fun of because “illiterates” (McDonald’s word) are shaping them, it is consistent to be appalled when a vice-presidential candidate seems uninformed and cannot speak English. The “real America” has more than one race you know.</p>
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		<title>By: LabDancer</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104091</link>
		<dc:creator>LabDancer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104091</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah, what bmaz said.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Couple of comments on things you wrote:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Sarah Palin…is not qualified to be even an old-style “pail of warm spit” VP”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I assume you imply reliance on a number of authoritative sources for that view of the minimal demands of the job, but you would go further and propose that it be seen more in the nature of a minimum requirement. That’s a leap, no matter how small, and in any even transformational, so it deserves a name. Might I suggest the “apocryphal standard”?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think you’re on to something important here: that it’s the apocryphal standard that has been used by much of the establishment media. However, the public’s view appears to have been somewhat more nuanced.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It was no less clear in 2000 than it is now that Cheney came to the job having spent an impressive amount of time looking over the Constitution and watching those on the job. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In fairness to Cheney, its beyond arguable that he has succeeded in proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that if the Framers had your suggested standard in mind, they failed to make it clear. In fairness to the public, it can be difficult to detect when study has turned into obsession- or at least it can be difficult without reading and paying attention, because by the time 2000 rolled around, there was already an abundance of evidence available that wherever the line is, he’d crossed it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree with Ms. E Wheel that doing requires a certain set of gifts that nature, it appears, has denied Ms. Palin. Like an attention span.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Where I depart from Ms. E Wheel is on the notion that the GOP machine is really introducing Ms. Palin as a candidate for VPOTUS. I think the plans of the GOP machine are longer, and insofar as they involve Ms Palin, greater. I also think they’re a better match for her ambition.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But then it’s for a different job - one in which, in stark contrast with VPOTUS, neither having hunted witches nor nor having invoked witchcraft is considered an inherent disqualifying feature.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m satisfied the public view is the correct one insofar as the job of VPOTUS is concerned, particularly given Governor Palin made out a powerful and compelling case for her at least approaching your apocryphal standard.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also; you: “If the election is anything less than a tsunami in favor of Obama, the Republicans will try to steal it”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And it might be a pretty nice day, it if doesn’t rain.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, what bmaz said.</p>
<p>Couple of comments on things you wrote:</p>
<p>“Sarah Palin…is not qualified to be even an old-style “pail of warm spit” VP”</p>
<p>I assume you imply reliance on a number of authoritative sources for that view of the minimal demands of the job, but you would go further and propose that it be seen more in the nature of a minimum requirement. That’s a leap, no matter how small, and in any even transformational, so it deserves a name. Might I suggest the “apocryphal standard”?</p>
<p>I think you’re on to something important here: that it’s the apocryphal standard that has been used by much of the establishment media. However, the public’s view appears to have been somewhat more nuanced.</p>
<p>It was no less clear in 2000 than it is now that Cheney came to the job having spent an impressive amount of time looking over the Constitution and watching those on the job. </p>
<p>In fairness to Cheney, its beyond arguable that he has succeeded in proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that if the Framers had your suggested standard in mind, they failed to make it clear. In fairness to the public, it can be difficult to detect when study has turned into obsession- or at least it can be difficult without reading and paying attention, because by the time 2000 rolled around, there was already an abundance of evidence available that wherever the line is, he’d crossed it.</p>
<p>I agree with Ms. E Wheel that doing requires a certain set of gifts that nature, it appears, has denied Ms. Palin. Like an attention span.</p>
<p>Where I depart from Ms. E Wheel is on the notion that the GOP machine is really introducing Ms. Palin as a candidate for VPOTUS. I think the plans of the GOP machine are longer, and insofar as they involve Ms Palin, greater. I also think they’re a better match for her ambition.</p>
<p>But then it’s for a different job &#8211; one in which, in stark contrast with VPOTUS, neither having hunted witches nor nor having invoked witchcraft is considered an inherent disqualifying feature.</p>
<p>I’m satisfied the public view is the correct one insofar as the job of VPOTUS is concerned, particularly given Governor Palin made out a powerful and compelling case for her at least approaching your apocryphal standard.</p>
<p>Also; you: “If the election is anything less than a tsunami in favor of Obama, the Republicans will try to steal it”.</p>
<p>And it might be a pretty nice day, it if doesn’t rain.</p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104079</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 12:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104079</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I need to do some setting straight on what is being referenced as Fargo speech.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This part of the land — Minnesota, Wisconsin and N. Dakota was settled up by people from Scandinavia.  Danish, Swedish and Norwegian are distinct languages, but once you get the ear for it, if you know one, you can understand the others, and if you speak one, you will be understood in the others.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now most of these “Fargo” patterns you are noticing, are actually importations into English from one or another of the Scandinavian Languages as they were spoken in the second half of the 19th Century.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For instance, some complain because the “ing” is not pronounced at the end of a word.  No — a word that ends in G, and that includes all the ing’s, in Danish, Swedish and Norwegian demands a glottal stop. Older Migrants from Scandinavia continued to use the glottal stop, even speaking as native speakers of American English.  Since an American learning any of these languages confronts the reality that English does not actually have glottal stops, learning how to do it properly requires practice.  In general D at the end of a word requires the same treatment, or, it might require a “th” sound made in the rear of your mouth.  Again — practice is necessary. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We actually have a very authoritative book on this subject that was co-authored some years ago by Garrison Keillor, titled “How to Speak Minnesotan” Wisconsin and North Dakota have variations on this.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My guess is that Sarah Palin learned this received speech from someone who either initially spoke Norwegian, or was the child of a Norwegian family.  It has to do with her inflections.  Swedish and Norwegian are inflected, in slightly different ways, Danish is not.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now, Around here what is essentially a Patios that identifies you as a local, or an adjusted Minnesotan, really should not be used in formal speech.  It is rather like the debate about Eubonics — it is a received language/dialect, fun to learn, speak, read — it is expressive, but it isn’t formal American English.  Someone should point out to Ms. Palin that if Barack Obama had addressed an Iowa Caucus in Eubonics, he would never have gotten delegate support.  She needs to accept the same cultural rules.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I need to do some setting straight on what is being referenced as Fargo speech.  </p>
<p>This part of the land — Minnesota, Wisconsin and N. Dakota was settled up by people from Scandinavia.  Danish, Swedish and Norwegian are distinct languages, but once you get the ear for it, if you know one, you can understand the others, and if you speak one, you will be understood in the others.  </p>
<p>Now most of these “Fargo” patterns you are noticing, are actually importations into English from one or another of the Scandinavian Languages as they were spoken in the second half of the 19th Century.  </p>
<p>For instance, some complain because the “ing” is not pronounced at the end of a word.  No — a word that ends in G, and that includes all the ing’s, in Danish, Swedish and Norwegian demands a glottal stop. Older Migrants from Scandinavia continued to use the glottal stop, even speaking as native speakers of American English.  Since an American learning any of these languages confronts the reality that English does not actually have glottal stops, learning how to do it properly requires practice.  In general D at the end of a word requires the same treatment, or, it might require a “th” sound made in the rear of your mouth.  Again — practice is necessary. </p>
<p>We actually have a very authoritative book on this subject that was co-authored some years ago by Garrison Keillor, titled “How to Speak Minnesotan” Wisconsin and North Dakota have variations on this.  </p>
<p>My guess is that Sarah Palin learned this received speech from someone who either initially spoke Norwegian, or was the child of a Norwegian family.  It has to do with her inflections.  Swedish and Norwegian are inflected, in slightly different ways, Danish is not.  </p>
<p>Now, Around here what is essentially a Patios that identifies you as a local, or an adjusted Minnesotan, really should not be used in formal speech.  It is rather like the debate about Eubonics — it is a received language/dialect, fun to learn, speak, read — it is expressive, but it isn’t formal American English.  Someone should point out to Ms. Palin that if Barack Obama had addressed an Iowa Caucus in Eubonics, he would never have gotten delegate support.  She needs to accept the same cultural rules.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104076</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 08:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104076</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Welcome, and don’t be shy.  We all make fools of ourselves daily; it is a tradition here; we need the help!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome, and don’t be shy.  We all make fools of ourselves daily; it is a tradition here; we need the help!</p>
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		<title>By: LangostinoHues</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104073</link>
		<dc:creator>LangostinoHues</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 07:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/10/04/fourth-branch-sarah/#comment-104073</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Damn, damn, &lt;i&gt;damn it!&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
believe&lt;br /&gt;
i before e, except after c&lt;br /&gt;
i before e, except after c&lt;br /&gt;
…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn, damn, <i>damn it!</i><br />
believe<br />
i before e, except after c<br />
i before e, except after c<br />
…</p>
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