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	<title>Comments on: When McCain Says &#8220;Victory&#8221; in Iraq, Is He Lying About THAT, Too?</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/</link>
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		<title>By: radiofreewill</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/comment-page-1/#comment-99544</link>
		<dc:creator>radiofreewill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/#comment-99544</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Neither Bush nor McCain want to admit to a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Three Trillion Dollar&lt;/a&gt; Mistake that has cost more than 4,000 American lives and all Our Credibility in the Global Community.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;$3T divided by 300 Million Americans = $10,000 for every man, woman and child - every social class, gender, race, ethnicity, religion, etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For what Noble Cause was such a price payed?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What is the nature of this ‘Victory’?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neither Bush nor McCain want to admit to a <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.html" rel="nofollow">Three Trillion Dollar</a> Mistake that has cost more than 4,000 American lives and all Our Credibility in the Global Community.</p>
<p>$3T divided by 300 Million Americans = $10,000 for every man, woman and child &#8211; every social class, gender, race, ethnicity, religion, etc.</p>
<p>For what Noble Cause was such a price payed?</p>
<p>What is the nature of this ‘Victory’?</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/comment-page-1/#comment-99542</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;You have to wonder which side Sunstein is on.  This guy is part of the team pushing for “turning the page, moving on”  No Accountability for the Bush administration.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have to wonder which side Sunstein is on.  This guy is part of the team pushing for “turning the page, moving on”  No Accountability for the Bush administration.</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/comment-page-1/#comment-99539</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;This week Petreaus said  situation in Iraq is “fragile” and “reversible”.  Does the spell victory?  Ask some of the 5 million Iraqi refugees.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This week Petreaus said  situation in Iraq is “fragile” and “reversible”.  Does the spell victory?  Ask some of the 5 million Iraqi refugees.</p>
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		<title>By: wigwam</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/comment-page-1/#comment-99518</link>
		<dc:creator>wigwam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/#comment-99518</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;OT: I often disagree with Cass Sunstein, and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.truthout.org/article/mccains-court-change-we-dont-need&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; is another example:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;   There has been much debate about whether Sen. John McCain is a candidate of change. But in one area, McCain is unquestionably a reformer. He would almost certainly make fundamental changes in the direction of the U.S. Supreme Court.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    McCain has said that, should he be president, Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito “would serve as the model for my own nominees.” &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;How can anyone in their right mind call using Bush’s appointees as prototypes for future appointments a “change in direction”?  IMHO, it is exactly what Obama has been claiming it would be, four more years of Bushism.&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.truthout.org/article/mccains-court-change-we-dont-need&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT: I often disagree with Cass Sunstein, and <a href="http://www.truthout.org/article/mccains-court-change-we-dont-need" rel="nofollow">here</a> is another example:</p>
<blockquote><p>   There has been much debate about whether Sen. John McCain is a candidate of change. But in one area, McCain is unquestionably a reformer. He would almost certainly make fundamental changes in the direction of the U.S. Supreme Court.</p>
<p>    McCain has said that, should he be president, Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito “would serve as the model for my own nominees.” </p>
</blockquote>
<p>How can anyone in their right mind call using Bush’s appointees as prototypes for future appointments a “change in direction”?  IMHO, it is exactly what Obama has been claiming it would be, four more years of Bushism.<a href="http://www.truthout.org/article/mccains-court-change-we-dont-need" rel="nofollow"></a></p>
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		<title>By: Minnesotachuck</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/comment-page-1/#comment-99483</link>
		<dc:creator>Minnesotachuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 06:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/#comment-99483</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Way late to this party - social obligations dontchaknow.  Anyway, Fallows had a superb post yesterday on the subject of &lt;a href=&quot;http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/the_palin_interview.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;what makes Sarah Palin utterly unqualified to be President&lt;/a&gt;, and by extension Veep:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Each of us has areas we care about, and areas we don’t. If we are interested in a topic, we follow its development over the years. And because we have followed its development, we’re able to talk and think about it in a “rounded” way. We can say: Most people think X, but I really think Y. Or: most people used to think P, but now they think Q. Or: the point most people miss is Z. Or: the question I’d really like to hear answered is A.  .  .  .  Here’s the most obvious example in daily life: Sports Talk radio.  .  .  .  Mention a name or theme — Brett Favre, the Patriots under Belichick, Lance Armstrong’s comeback, Venus and Serena — and anyone who cares about sports can have a very sophisticated discussion about the ins and outs and myth and realities and arguments and rebuttals. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;What Sarah Palin revealed is that she has not been interested enough in world affairs to become minimally conversant with the issues. Many people in our great land might have difficulty defining the “Bush Doctrine” exactly. But not to recognize the name, as obviously was the case for Palin, indicates not a failure of last-minute cramming but a lack of attention to any foreign-policy discussion whatsoever in the last seven years.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
Sarah Palin did not know this issue, or any part of it. The view she actually expressed — an endorsement of “preemptive” action — was fine on its own merits. But it is not the stated doctrine of the Bush Administration, it is not the policy her running mate has endorsed, and it is not the concept under which her own son is going off to Iraq.  .  .  How could she not know this? For the same reason I don’t know anything about European football/soccer standings, player trades, or intrigue. I am not interested enough. And she evidently has not been interested enough even to follow the news of foreign affairs during the Bush era.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Way late to this party &#8211; social obligations dontchaknow.  Anyway, Fallows had a superb post yesterday on the subject of <a href="http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/the_palin_interview.php" rel="nofollow">what makes Sarah Palin utterly unqualified to be President</a>, and by extension Veep:</p>
<blockquote><p>Each of us has areas we care about, and areas we don’t. If we are interested in a topic, we follow its development over the years. And because we have followed its development, we’re able to talk and think about it in a “rounded” way. We can say: Most people think X, but I really think Y. Or: most people used to think P, but now they think Q. Or: the point most people miss is Z. Or: the question I’d really like to hear answered is A.  .  .  .  Here’s the most obvious example in daily life: Sports Talk radio.  .  .  .  Mention a name or theme — Brett Favre, the Patriots under Belichick, Lance Armstrong’s comeback, Venus and Serena — and anyone who cares about sports can have a very sophisticated discussion about the ins and outs and myth and realities and arguments and rebuttals. </p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>What Sarah Palin revealed is that she has not been interested enough in world affairs to become minimally conversant with the issues. Many people in our great land might have difficulty defining the “Bush Doctrine” exactly. But not to recognize the name, as obviously was the case for Palin, indicates not a failure of last-minute cramming but a lack of attention to any foreign-policy discussion whatsoever in the last seven years.</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><p>
Sarah Palin did not know this issue, or any part of it. The view she actually expressed — an endorsement of “preemptive” action — was fine on its own merits. But it is not the stated doctrine of the Bush Administration, it is not the policy her running mate has endorsed, and it is not the concept under which her own son is going off to Iraq.  .  .  How could she not know this? For the same reason I don’t know anything about European football/soccer standings, player trades, or intrigue. I am not interested enough. And she evidently has not been interested enough even to follow the news of foreign affairs during the Bush era.</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/comment-page-1/#comment-99472</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Palin has never earned the “straight talk” moniker and never will.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Palin has never earned the “straight talk” moniker and never will.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/comment-page-1/#comment-99471</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Lying is “straight talk”, if he admits it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lying is “straight talk”, if he admits it.</p>
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		<title>By: CTuttle</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/comment-page-1/#comment-99450</link>
		<dc:creator>CTuttle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/#comment-99450</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Woodward outed Keane’s back channel between the WH and Betrayus, well he’s back…  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/559qlsot.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Endgame in Iraq&lt;/a&gt;  Now, interestingly, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aswataliraq.info/look/english/article.tpl?IdLanguage=1&amp;IdPublication=4&amp;NrArticle=92988&amp;NrIssue=2&amp;NrSection=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Aswat Aliraq&lt;/a&gt; mentions an unnamed envoy from Darth is applying pressure on the SOFA negotiations with Maliki…  It might be tin-foil territory, but, it wouldn’t surprise me one iota…!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woodward outed Keane’s back channel between the WH and Betrayus, well he’s back…  <a href="http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/559qlsot.asp" rel="nofollow">The Endgame in Iraq</a>  Now, interestingly, <a href="http://www.aswataliraq.info/look/english/article.tpl?IdLanguage=1&amp;IdPublication=4&amp;NrArticle=92988&amp;NrIssue=2&amp;NrSection=1" rel="nofollow">Aswat Aliraq</a> mentions an unnamed envoy from Darth is applying pressure on the SOFA negotiations with Maliki…  It might be tin-foil territory, but, it wouldn’t surprise me one iota…!</p>
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		<title>By: jayt</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/comment-page-1/#comment-99444</link>
		<dc:creator>jayt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/#comment-99444</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Remember–Woodward has been known to tape important interviews.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Shhhh….&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(whispers - he doesn’t know about audio or video tapes).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Remember–Woodward has been known to tape important interviews.</i></p>
<p>Shhhh….</p>
<p>(whispers &#8211; he doesn’t know about audio or video tapes).</p>
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		<title>By: DanC</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/comment-page-1/#comment-99424</link>
		<dc:creator>DanC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/13/when-mccain-says-victory-in-iraq-is-he-lying-about-that-too/#comment-99424</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Speaking of McCain’s outlook on victory in the Iraq war:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/12/2362484.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;Petraeus will never declare victory in Iraq&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt; The general in charge of American soldiers in Iraq has given a mixed assessment of progress in Iraq. General David Petraeus says that, while the country is in better shape than it was at the start of last year it still faces serious problems. General Petraeus has overseen the so called “surge” of American combat troops into Iraq and he is about to leave to take on a more senior role. He says the fabric of Iraqi society was being torn apart by “horrific” violence. The outgoing commander says he will never declare victory there.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Does McCain agree with Petraeus that there will never be “victory” in Iraq? Does McCain still insist that U.S. troops must remain in Iraq until “victory” is achieved?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of McCain’s outlook on victory in the Iraq war:</p>
<blockquote><p><i><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/12/2362484.htm" rel="nofollow"><b>Petraeus will never declare victory in Iraq</b></a> The general in charge of American soldiers in Iraq has given a mixed assessment of progress in Iraq. General David Petraeus says that, while the country is in better shape than it was at the start of last year it still faces serious problems. General Petraeus has overseen the so called “surge” of American combat troops into Iraq and he is about to leave to take on a more senior role. He says the fabric of Iraqi society was being torn apart by “horrific” violence. The outgoing commander says he will never declare victory there.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Does McCain agree with Petraeus that there will never be “victory” in Iraq? Does McCain still insist that U.S. troops must remain in Iraq until “victory” is achieved?</p>
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