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	<title>Comments on: Nar.Ra.Tive</title>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-98694</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/#comment-98694</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;One of your more important observations, EW.  Glenzilla responded to it Tuesday, a day after you did.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The press in this country has a privileged position for a reason.  Private businesses can sell their SUV’s, deodorants and movies themselves.  Governments can sell their propaganda, if it weren’t illegal (another law BushCo. ignores).  We don’t need the press to do those things, even a press owned by “entertainment” companies and defense contractors or mere antipodean power brokers.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The press is privileged because it is the interface between the people and their government.  Government is simply people acting together to meet their collective needs, not just the needs of those ambitious or informed enough to grab hold of the government’s levers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The press’s job is not to report claims or statements; it starts there.  Expressly and by implication, what it reports is newsworthy, what it ignores is not, what it spikes would be newsworthy if it got out.  Dog bites man, politician lies, are such commonplaces they should never headlines.  Man bites dog, politician risks re-election chances to fight for fair treatment, those are headlines.  Why?  The context, the importance, the uniqueness, the notoriety.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Any fool, Ambinder included, can regurgitate claims.  Reporting, digging out facts their holders don’t want known, having the wit and experience to put them into useful context for a reader or viewer, that’s journalism.  It turns a claim into a useful fact that affects how we think about our homes, our workplace, our relationship to those we rely on to do things individually we can’t, that’s newsworthy.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Mr. Ambinder wants to sell chicken soup.  It’s not his job, he says, to tell us it’s dessicated, not home-made fresh, that it has more binder, additives and preservatives than chicken, or that it was made in China downstream from a lead-acid battery factory.  It’s not his job to research whether what’s on the label contains any semblance of truth.  He’s just there to read the label.  His employer pays him lots of money to keep it to that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of your more important observations, EW.  Glenzilla responded to it Tuesday, a day after you did.</p>
<p>The press in this country has a privileged position for a reason.  Private businesses can sell their SUV’s, deodorants and movies themselves.  Governments can sell their propaganda, if it weren’t illegal (another law BushCo. ignores).  We don’t need the press to do those things, even a press owned by “entertainment” companies and defense contractors or mere antipodean power brokers.  </p>
<p>The press is privileged because it is the interface between the people and their government.  Government is simply people acting together to meet their collective needs, not just the needs of those ambitious or informed enough to grab hold of the government’s levers.</p>
<p>The press’s job is not to report claims or statements; it starts there.  Expressly and by implication, what it reports is newsworthy, what it ignores is not, what it spikes would be newsworthy if it got out.  Dog bites man, politician lies, are such commonplaces they should never headlines.  Man bites dog, politician risks re-election chances to fight for fair treatment, those are headlines.  Why?  The context, the importance, the uniqueness, the notoriety.</p>
<p>Any fool, Ambinder included, can regurgitate claims.  Reporting, digging out facts their holders don’t want known, having the wit and experience to put them into useful context for a reader or viewer, that’s journalism.  It turns a claim into a useful fact that affects how we think about our homes, our workplace, our relationship to those we rely on to do things individually we can’t, that’s newsworthy.  </p>
<p>Mr. Ambinder wants to sell chicken soup.  It’s not his job, he says, to tell us it’s dessicated, not home-made fresh, that it has more binder, additives and preservatives than chicken, or that it was made in China downstream from a lead-acid battery factory.  It’s not his job to research whether what’s on the label contains any semblance of truth.  He’s just there to read the label.  His employer pays him lots of money to keep it to that.</p>
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		<title>By: dosido</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-98688</link>
		<dc:creator>dosido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/#comment-98688</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The issues at the core of all this lying of course are:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1. the true role of a free press - accountability&lt;br /&gt;
2. GOP’s relentless assault on the checks on power&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;no more free press&lt;br /&gt;
no more easy access to voting polls&lt;br /&gt;
etc&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issues at the core of all this lying of course are:</p>
<p>1. the true role of a free press &#8211; accountability<br />
2. GOP’s relentless assault on the checks on power</p>
<p>no more free press<br />
no more easy access to voting polls<br />
etc</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-98664</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/#comment-98664</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You make some great points. A new business model would probably be desired by many journalists but embraced by few media owners.  Media owners are part of controlling the message. Additionally, I think there are clearly journalists, actually propagandists, who pursue journalism in order to exploit the medium for an end game; thus, who would not embrace a new business model.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree, there IS content worth paying for. I think ever since Watergate and the press uncovering that true story, it became the GOP mandate to dress the media as liberal, as opposed to, a part of the fabric of our nation as upholding the role of seeking honest and quality information voters can utilize to make civic decisions.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Frankly,those journalists in high profile positions, being bullied, would make a statement if they walked away from their contracts citing “hostile work environment” as the reason they are breaking their contract.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ll never forget when I received a full ride to the top accredited journalism school in the US.  When I met with the dean of the journalism school, I was disgusted with an inference made against the Fourth Estate. His dialogue was centered on journalism not “being about” facts but “how” you fit just some of facts together and the resulting power of the story a writer can bring to life.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;His hyperbole for encouraging lying was an epiphany moment for me and my future. When I explained the conversation to my parents, it was clear to them I was walking away from a life dreamed career-wise and the honor of a full ride scholarship…for all the right reasons.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I do not want to hurt the journalists who write with integrity, or at least get beat up trying to write with integrity. The corporate media, who try and direct the coverage, amount of coverage, the bias of the coverage, the pockets which get lined by promoting propagandized views through their editorial direction…THAT pocket, I am more than willing to begin a grassroots movement against.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You are correct, the reasons for the change in media’s role are for another thread.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make some great points. A new business model would probably be desired by many journalists but embraced by few media owners.  Media owners are part of controlling the message. Additionally, I think there are clearly journalists, actually propagandists, who pursue journalism in order to exploit the medium for an end game; thus, who would not embrace a new business model.</p>
<p>I agree, there IS content worth paying for. I think ever since Watergate and the press uncovering that true story, it became the GOP mandate to dress the media as liberal, as opposed to, a part of the fabric of our nation as upholding the role of seeking honest and quality information voters can utilize to make civic decisions.</p>
<p>Frankly,those journalists in high profile positions, being bullied, would make a statement if they walked away from their contracts citing “hostile work environment” as the reason they are breaking their contract.</p>
<p>I’ll never forget when I received a full ride to the top accredited journalism school in the US.  When I met with the dean of the journalism school, I was disgusted with an inference made against the Fourth Estate. His dialogue was centered on journalism not “being about” facts but “how” you fit just some of facts together and the resulting power of the story a writer can bring to life.</p>
<p>His hyperbole for encouraging lying was an epiphany moment for me and my future. When I explained the conversation to my parents, it was clear to them I was walking away from a life dreamed career-wise and the honor of a full ride scholarship…for all the right reasons.</p>
<p>I do not want to hurt the journalists who write with integrity, or at least get beat up trying to write with integrity. The corporate media, who try and direct the coverage, amount of coverage, the bias of the coverage, the pockets which get lined by promoting propagandized views through their editorial direction…THAT pocket, I am more than willing to begin a grassroots movement against.</p>
<p>You are correct, the reasons for the change in media’s role are for another thread.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-98650</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 15:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/#comment-98650</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Actually, I’d probably have loved to be a fly on the wall &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I came back to follow up with another comment early a.m. because it occurred to me last night that there’s a pattern here — and I think it resembles that ‘predator vs prey’ pattern that I discerned in EW’s Ghorbanifar Timeline.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m not as good at timelines as EW, plus no time at present, but it occurred to me as I was pouring morning coffee that the really hideous rants, PLUS reports from members of the press about being ‘bullied’ by GOP operatives and McCain ’strategists’ is very interesting in light of a few facts.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Back in late July or early August, Joe Klein over at TIME’s Swampland started to w-r-i-t-e about being bullied by neocons for questioning their views.  And he wrote something to the effect of, “I’m damned if I’m going to let these bullies call the tune.”  (Yes, I had to read about three times to believe my eyes.)  Then, the following week or so he followed up with a post frankly mentioning that under the ‘false equivilence of objectivity’ he’d have written A = B. But he didn’t feel that sufficient for what he was seeing; A != B, and it was as if he was moving toward some new framework.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Note Dana Milbank’s funny, acid video piece from the GOP convention, where he mocks himself as being a dreaded, rotten member of the MSM.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Then go over to TPM and locate an interview  that David Kurtz (of TPM) did with Howard Fineman — it’s about 8+ minutes and really ought to go in a time capsule because of what it suggests about the social stresses of our times.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For one person in the press trying to mention ‘meddling interests’ and Palin, see the topics at Jim Lobe’s blog:  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Can you say “AIPAC”? Thought you could.  If I were a non-US interest wanting to influence US policy, I’d probably love a ‘Christian’, particularly someone easily influenced by End Times beliefs, or linked to them… and HoJo is sure doing his part to help Palin learn the ‘foreign policy ropes’, isn’t he?  No wonder she doesn’t have time to talk to the press — they have her holed up with their own ‘experts’ on How The World Works.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At any rate, I think the press — like all institutions — is undergoing fundamental changes.  And as they attempt to raise questions about Palin - OR criticize McCain and the GOP! — note how the flying monkeys go crazy ranting about the press.  I’d like to interpret that as a **good** thing on the grounds that it suggests the GOP/strategists are losing their death-grip on the media.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Look at the NYT OpEds about McCain, about  Palin’s zilch qualifications and what it says about McCain’s judgment.  All extremely negative, and backed up by facts.  (Joe Klein is in the MSM doing the same thing finally, and we’ve just seen what happened to KO and Chris Matthews… the flying monkeys are going bananas over the very notion that the press might start insisting on interviews, insisting on f-a-c-t-s.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Anyway, I don’t think it’s sufficient simply to boycott the press.&lt;br /&gt;
They need jobs; we need information.&lt;br /&gt;
I want them to be better.&lt;br /&gt;
I want them to do more than shill out whatever sop the GOP or the Dems hand them in a day. I want them to have time to do research.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Here’s a good example — and three different people brought it to my attention on Sunday.  From the Seattle Times, who actually had a reporter or two go to the National Archives and sort through boxes of info related to Sarah Palin’s mayoral activities:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2008163431_palin070.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....in070.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Worth special mention, this nugget:  &lt;em&gt;“In October 1996, about a third of Wasilla’s registered voters went to the polls. &lt;strong&gt;Palin collected 616 votes&lt;/strong&gt; — 58 percent of the total. “It’s a new direction,” she told the Frontiersman, the local newspaper.”&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I realize that everyone has to start somewhere, but 616 votes?!&lt;br /&gt;
You gotta be kiddin’ me.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That is NOT the basis for leading the world.&lt;br /&gt;
Let me repeat:&lt;br /&gt;
1996 — twelve years ago — Biden would already  have been in the Senate for over 20 years, and McCain for over 12.&lt;br /&gt;
1996, this woman receives 616 votes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;NOTE — 2/3 of the **registered voters** in Wasilla didn’t even bother to vote in the election.  A town of 9,000 or so, and she received… about one vote for every 9 people…?  That’s not a ‘mandate’.  That’s a symptom that people don’t care enough about government to haul their asses out and vote (either that or — like me — to pissed off to vote).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But how would you or I know that unless someone — the ‘press’, in this case a newspaper — actually paid people to locate, search, synthesize, and write up what they’d found in public documents.  Where there’s no question  of whether the information is true/false.  They have the f-a-c-t-s.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The GOP will go ape-shit, because the facts are like water on that witch on Oz.  Nooooooooo!  Nooooooooo!  I’m mellllttttting!!!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If I ever have the inside track on what could save the press, I’ll be sure to comment right here &lt;br /&gt;
Meanwhile, why throw the baby out with the bathwater?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Every living organism needs communication — cells communicate, bees do it, birds do it, and we do it.  The problem has been the QUALITY of information.  It’s declined.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’d argue that this is largely due to the same kind of insane ‘free market’ economics that’s wreaked havoc on the rest of American life.  The market is a sewer.   People make money by cutting corners, and acting in ways that allow them  to get ‘an edge’ — buy from China, sell in Arkansas.  No morality whatsoever.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The ‘press’ is vulnerable to that same sewer-driven, amoral logic.&lt;br /&gt;
In order to ‘grab eyeballs’, the press has had to cut corners.&lt;br /&gt;
They’re in an economic nightmare.&lt;br /&gt;
But that’s a different thread…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Because they’re in an economic nightmare, they’re vulnerable to economic and political pressure in ways that weren’t true in the 1970s.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;IMHO, the press needs a different biz model.&lt;br /&gt;
With a different biz model, they’d have more resources for the kind of research that is a **service** that will generate enough revenue that they can do good work.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve taken too long to say this isn’t solely the fault of the press, and we need some kind of information services. I’m just  not sure what those will be.  But Jim Lobe’s information, and the Seattle Times information is CONTENT worth paying for.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As is EW’s blog, which is my cue to put a couple meagre pennies in the PayPal right now.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I’d probably have loved to be a fly on the wall </p>
<p>I came back to follow up with another comment early a.m. because it occurred to me last night that there’s a pattern here — and I think it resembles that ‘predator vs prey’ pattern that I discerned in EW’s Ghorbanifar Timeline.</p>
<p>I’m not as good at timelines as EW, plus no time at present, but it occurred to me as I was pouring morning coffee that the really hideous rants, PLUS reports from members of the press about being ‘bullied’ by GOP operatives and McCain ’strategists’ is very interesting in light of a few facts.</p>
<p>Back in late July or early August, Joe Klein over at TIME’s Swampland started to w-r-i-t-e about being bullied by neocons for questioning their views.  And he wrote something to the effect of, “I’m damned if I’m going to let these bullies call the tune.”  (Yes, I had to read about three times to believe my eyes.)  Then, the following week or so he followed up with a post frankly mentioning that under the ‘false equivilence of objectivity’ he’d have written A = B. But he didn’t feel that sufficient for what he was seeing; A != B, and it was as if he was moving toward some new framework.</p>
<p>Note Dana Milbank’s funny, acid video piece from the GOP convention, where he mocks himself as being a dreaded, rotten member of the MSM.</p>
<p>Then go over to TPM and locate an interview  that David Kurtz (of TPM) did with Howard Fineman — it’s about 8+ minutes and really ought to go in a time capsule because of what it suggests about the social stresses of our times.</p>
<p>For one person in the press trying to mention ‘meddling interests’ and Palin, see the topics at Jim Lobe’s blog:  <a href="http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ips.org/blog/jimlobe/</a><br />
Can you say “AIPAC”? Thought you could.  If I were a non-US interest wanting to influence US policy, I’d probably love a ‘Christian’, particularly someone easily influenced by End Times beliefs, or linked to them… and HoJo is sure doing his part to help Palin learn the ‘foreign policy ropes’, isn’t he?  No wonder she doesn’t have time to talk to the press — they have her holed up with their own ‘experts’ on How The World Works.</p>
<p>At any rate, I think the press — like all institutions — is undergoing fundamental changes.  And as they attempt to raise questions about Palin &#8211; OR criticize McCain and the GOP! — note how the flying monkeys go crazy ranting about the press.  I’d like to interpret that as a **good** thing on the grounds that it suggests the GOP/strategists are losing their death-grip on the media.</p>
<p>Look at the NYT OpEds about McCain, about  Palin’s zilch qualifications and what it says about McCain’s judgment.  All extremely negative, and backed up by facts.  (Joe Klein is in the MSM doing the same thing finally, and we’ve just seen what happened to KO and Chris Matthews… the flying monkeys are going bananas over the very notion that the press might start insisting on interviews, insisting on f-a-c-t-s.)</p>
<p>Anyway, I don’t think it’s sufficient simply to boycott the press.<br />
They need jobs; we need information.<br />
I want them to be better.<br />
I want them to do more than shill out whatever sop the GOP or the Dems hand them in a day. I want them to have time to do research.</p>
<p>Here’s a good example — and three different people brought it to my attention on Sunday.  From the Seattle Times, who actually had a reporter or two go to the National Archives and sort through boxes of info related to Sarah Palin’s mayoral activities:<br /><a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2008163431_palin070.html" rel="nofollow">http://seattletimes.nwsource.c&#8230;..in070.html</a></p>
<p>Worth special mention, this nugget:  <em>“In October 1996, about a third of Wasilla’s registered voters went to the polls. <strong>Palin collected 616 votes</strong> — 58 percent of the total. “It’s a new direction,” she told the Frontiersman, the local newspaper.”</em></p>
<p>I realize that everyone has to start somewhere, but 616 votes?!<br />
You gotta be kiddin’ me.</p>
<p>That is NOT the basis for leading the world.<br />
Let me repeat:<br />
1996 — twelve years ago — Biden would already  have been in the Senate for over 20 years, and McCain for over 12.<br />
1996, this woman receives 616 votes.</p>
<p>NOTE — 2/3 of the **registered voters** in Wasilla didn’t even bother to vote in the election.  A town of 9,000 or so, and she received… about one vote for every 9 people…?  That’s not a ‘mandate’.  That’s a symptom that people don’t care enough about government to haul their asses out and vote (either that or — like me — to pissed off to vote).</p>
<p>But how would you or I know that unless someone — the ‘press’, in this case a newspaper — actually paid people to locate, search, synthesize, and write up what they’d found in public documents.  Where there’s no question  of whether the information is true/false.  They have the f-a-c-t-s.</p>
<p>The GOP will go ape-shit, because the facts are like water on that witch on Oz.  Nooooooooo!  Nooooooooo!  I’m mellllttttting!!!</p>
<p>If I ever have the inside track on what could save the press, I’ll be sure to comment right here <br />
Meanwhile, why throw the baby out with the bathwater?</p>
<p>Every living organism needs communication — cells communicate, bees do it, birds do it, and we do it.  The problem has been the QUALITY of information.  It’s declined.</p>
<p>I’d argue that this is largely due to the same kind of insane ‘free market’ economics that’s wreaked havoc on the rest of American life.  The market is a sewer.   People make money by cutting corners, and acting in ways that allow them  to get ‘an edge’ — buy from China, sell in Arkansas.  No morality whatsoever.</p>
<p>The ‘press’ is vulnerable to that same sewer-driven, amoral logic.<br />
In order to ‘grab eyeballs’, the press has had to cut corners.<br />
They’re in an economic nightmare.<br />
But that’s a different thread…</p>
<p>Because they’re in an economic nightmare, they’re vulnerable to economic and political pressure in ways that weren’t true in the 1970s.  </p>
<p>IMHO, the press needs a different biz model.<br />
With a different biz model, they’d have more resources for the kind of research that is a **service** that will generate enough revenue that they can do good work.</p>
<p>I’ve taken too long to say this isn’t solely the fault of the press, and we need some kind of information services. I’m just  not sure what those will be.  But Jim Lobe’s information, and the Seattle Times information is CONTENT worth paying for.</p>
<p>As is EW’s blog, which is my cue to put a couple meagre pennies in the PayPal right now.</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-98633</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 11:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/#comment-98633</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;ROT,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;It may also mean canceling newspaper subscriptions and causing financial impact on the MSM.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This may also mean boycotting advertisers in the MSM when they promote the lies. Divesting of these company advertisers can also be effective.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Generic brands are fine with me…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ROT,</p>
<blockquote><p>It may also mean canceling newspaper subscriptions and causing financial impact on the MSM.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This may also mean boycotting advertisers in the MSM when they promote the lies. Divesting of these company advertisers can also be effective.</p>
<p>Generic brands are fine with me…</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-98632</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 11:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/#comment-98632</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Are you sure you were not a fly on the wall during my conversation with my professor friends?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We actually talked about the manipulation of the understanding of authority, rule, and will, by the GOP and Conservative Right.  I totally agree with you and believe you. Trust me, I unfortunately worked too close to such folks back in the early and mid 90’s when the Christian Coalition was&lt;br /&gt;
“growing” it’s war against the greater public. It became clear to me that their vision was a misplaced understanding of Hebrews 13:17 “Obey your leaders’ and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.”(among other misplaced understandings.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I might add, that there was a vision that if Christians were the leaders, then obeying would be…easy. Thus the “war” was defined as Christians infiltrating every level and aspect of government to change the US on one specific law, Roe v. Wade, for beginners. It was a dream vision for the GOP, to become a one party power and use the narrative “one nation under God” to gather ground troops (Christian Right base). It has been a symbiotic relationship.  Add certain meddling foreign powers into the manipulation narrative and it become the “perfect storm” of manipulation towards the death of Democracy.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Marcy did make a direct hit and this can be targeted and confronted.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now it’s clear “why” a grassroots movement will be the difference for Obama.  If the campaign can address “objective truth” on the grassroots level effectively, then the lies will be exposed.  This is where, the work done in the blogs will be so important. It may also mean canceling newspaper subscriptions and causing financial impact on the MSM.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey,</p>
<p>Are you sure you were not a fly on the wall during my conversation with my professor friends?</p>
<p>We actually talked about the manipulation of the understanding of authority, rule, and will, by the GOP and Conservative Right.  I totally agree with you and believe you. Trust me, I unfortunately worked too close to such folks back in the early and mid 90’s when the Christian Coalition was<br />
“growing” it’s war against the greater public. It became clear to me that their vision was a misplaced understanding of Hebrews 13:17 “Obey your leaders’ and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.”(among other misplaced understandings.)</p>
<p>I might add, that there was a vision that if Christians were the leaders, then obeying would be…easy. Thus the “war” was defined as Christians infiltrating every level and aspect of government to change the US on one specific law, Roe v. Wade, for beginners. It was a dream vision for the GOP, to become a one party power and use the narrative “one nation under God” to gather ground troops (Christian Right base). It has been a symbiotic relationship.  Add certain meddling foreign powers into the manipulation narrative and it become the “perfect storm” of manipulation towards the death of Democracy.</p>
<p>Marcy did make a direct hit and this can be targeted and confronted.</p>
<p>Now it’s clear “why” a grassroots movement will be the difference for Obama.  If the campaign can address “objective truth” on the grassroots level effectively, then the lies will be exposed.  This is where, the work done in the blogs will be so important. It may also mean canceling newspaper subscriptions and causing financial impact on the MSM.</p>
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		<title>By: acquarius74</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-98629</link>
		<dc:creator>acquarius74</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 05:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/#comment-98629</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Redshift,&lt;br /&gt;
Thank you!  I think you’ve just resolved one of my biggest problems.  I’m beginning to realize that I have been projecting value for truth onto these people that I want to value truth.  I’ve been calling them mutants for a long time, but still stubbornly giving them credit for some degree of conscience, i.e., to care about their lying.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ll try to find your book reference.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks again.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Redshift,<br />
Thank you!  I think you’ve just resolved one of my biggest problems.  I’m beginning to realize that I have been projecting value for truth onto these people that I want to value truth.  I’ve been calling them mutants for a long time, but still stubbornly giving them credit for some degree of conscience, i.e., to care about their lying.  </p>
<p>I’ll try to find your book reference.</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-98623</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 03:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/#comment-98623</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;At some point, McCain’s decision to run &lt;strong&gt;a campaign targeted against the very notion of objective truth–and those who try to expose it–needs to become the story.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Methinks EW scored a direct hit on the McCain/Palin campaign.&lt;br /&gt;
They are directly, aggressively targeting the press as well as the Dems.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The GOP wants the MSM and the Dems to play by the authoritarian rules that have worked so well for them. The problem for the rest of us is that if McCain/Palin win, it’s not credible to suppose that Putin, Russian oiligarchs, terrorists, and dictators will continue to play by those rules.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The rules the GOP is imposing will — if ‘obeyed’ by the MSM and the Dems — deliver us straight into the hands of those who wish us ill.  And if you don’t believe me, Google ‘neocon’ and ‘Ghorbanifar’.  And that’s only for starters.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ambinder is showing moral cowardice.&lt;br /&gt;
And the consequences of that are always grim.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>At some point, McCain’s decision to run <strong>a campaign targeted against the very notion of objective truth–and those who try to expose it–needs to become the story.</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Methinks EW scored a direct hit on the McCain/Palin campaign.<br />
They are directly, aggressively targeting the press as well as the Dems.</p>
<p>The GOP wants the MSM and the Dems to play by the authoritarian rules that have worked so well for them. The problem for the rest of us is that if McCain/Palin win, it’s not credible to suppose that Putin, Russian oiligarchs, terrorists, and dictators will continue to play by those rules.</p>
<p>The rules the GOP is imposing will — if ‘obeyed’ by the MSM and the Dems — deliver us straight into the hands of those who wish us ill.  And if you don’t believe me, Google ‘neocon’ and ‘Ghorbanifar’.  And that’s only for starters.</p>
<p>Ambinder is showing moral cowardice.<br />
And the consequences of that are always grim.</p>
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		<title>By: JLML</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-98621</link>
		<dc:creator>JLML</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/#comment-98621</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How about “But Marc Ambinder, at least, doesn’t seem phased…” (fazed?)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about “But Marc Ambinder, at least, doesn’t seem phased…” (fazed?)</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/comment-page-1/#comment-98620</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/08/narrative/#comment-98620</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;WO,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I was actually talking with some friends who are pastors and professors at a seminary.  Your point, drawn from my comment at 3, was essentially the central point of our conversation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We also found ourselves discussing the more central teachings of Christ that center around rebuilding the walls of the city (community organizer work). Someone called to the vocation of “public service” should be embracing such teachings, not speaking of them with condescending and arrogant put downs. Having served in an urban ministry in Washington DC, I cannot understand how anyone on the front lines of such work could “chuckle” at the message she sent out during her campaign speech.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Convenience theology” does not build honest relationships and is not living a life of “selflessness”. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Tony Campolo is probably one of the most incredible community organizer in terms of urban ministry, in the country…It was an honor to receive training from him…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WO,</p>
<p>I was actually talking with some friends who are pastors and professors at a seminary.  Your point, drawn from my comment at 3, was essentially the central point of our conversation.</p>
<p>We also found ourselves discussing the more central teachings of Christ that center around rebuilding the walls of the city (community organizer work). Someone called to the vocation of “public service” should be embracing such teachings, not speaking of them with condescending and arrogant put downs. Having served in an urban ministry in Washington DC, I cannot understand how anyone on the front lines of such work could “chuckle” at the message she sent out during her campaign speech.</p>
<p>“Convenience theology” does not build honest relationships and is not living a life of “selflessness”. </p>
<p>Tony Campolo is probably one of the most incredible community organizer in terms of urban ministry, in the country…It was an honor to receive training from him…</p>
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