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	<title>Comments on: The Strange Case of Hiwa Abdul Rahman Rashul (Part 2)</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/21/the-strange-case-of-hiwa-abdul-rahman-rashul-part-2/</link>
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		<title>By: Minnesotachuck</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/21/the-strange-case-of-hiwa-abdul-rahman-rashul-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-95911</link>
		<dc:creator>Minnesotachuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;instead of moving up the ladder of seniority in the House, he gravitated to the Executive Branch, where he could deliver orders of a kind that he could not give, as a legislator.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;IIRC, he did move up, and was minority whip when he resigned his seat to become SecDef in the Bush 41 administration.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>instead of moving up the ladder of seniority in the House, he gravitated to the Executive Branch, where he could deliver orders of a kind that he could not give, as a legislator.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>IIRC, he did move up, and was minority whip when he resigned his seat to become SecDef in the Bush 41 administration.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/21/the-strange-case-of-hiwa-abdul-rahman-rashul-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-95906</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;NEW POST ALERT&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/22/malevolence-in-mississippi/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Malevolence In Mississippi&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NEW POST ALERT</p>
<p><a href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/22/malevolence-in-mississippi/" rel="nofollow">Malevolence In Mississippi</a></p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/21/the-strange-case-of-hiwa-abdul-rahman-rashul-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-95905</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;here is a story from the former field director of the Edwards campaign in South Carolina (she is now the field director of the Udall for Senator in Colorado (so this is straight from the horses mouth).  Last night in the Boulder office for Obama she and I were discussing what took place in South Carolina (I had been there volunteering for Edwards in Charleston).  I was aware that the Edwards folks were working for free at that point (Feb of this year).  She told me that when Edwards found out that his campaign field folks were working for free he immediately decided to drop out of the race before Super Tuesday (knowing he was not going to change the race) and realizing that the campaign had enough money either to move forward or pay these workers for February and also until the end of March.  He chose to stop the campaign so that these folks could be payed for Feb and until the end of March(when they were not working).  According to her he also made sure they had health care. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;did anyone read about this anywhere? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Was I so disspointed that Edwards fell prey to his own ego and selfish needs.  You betcha.  Do I still have respect for his stance on many issues.  Health care, poverty, no lobbyist in a Presidential administration.  You betcha.  I still want to witness John Edwards become U.S. Attorney General.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>here is a story from the former field director of the Edwards campaign in South Carolina (she is now the field director of the Udall for Senator in Colorado (so this is straight from the horses mouth).  Last night in the Boulder office for Obama she and I were discussing what took place in South Carolina (I had been there volunteering for Edwards in Charleston).  I was aware that the Edwards folks were working for free at that point (Feb of this year).  She told me that when Edwards found out that his campaign field folks were working for free he immediately decided to drop out of the race before Super Tuesday (knowing he was not going to change the race) and realizing that the campaign had enough money either to move forward or pay these workers for February and also until the end of March.  He chose to stop the campaign so that these folks could be payed for Feb and until the end of March(when they were not working).  According to her he also made sure they had health care. </p>
<p>did anyone read about this anywhere? </p>
<p>Was I so disspointed that Edwards fell prey to his own ego and selfish needs.  You betcha.  Do I still have respect for his stance on many issues.  Health care, poverty, no lobbyist in a Presidential administration.  You betcha.  I still want to witness John Edwards become U.S. Attorney General.</p>
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		<title>By: WilliamOckham</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/21/the-strange-case-of-hiwa-abdul-rahman-rashul-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-95904</link>
		<dc:creator>WilliamOckham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/21/the-strange-case-of-hiwa-abdul-rahman-rashul-part-2/#comment-95904</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There are no indications that the administration was ever acting in good faith. But for years after 9/11, most people couldn’t even imagine that the Bush/Cheney Administration would use the attacks as an excuse to push this type of agenda. It was, and for some people really still is, simply unfathomable. Self-delusion in the face of evil is the easiest way out.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are no indications that the administration was ever acting in good faith. But for years after 9/11, most people couldn’t even imagine that the Bush/Cheney Administration would use the attacks as an excuse to push this type of agenda. It was, and for some people really still is, simply unfathomable. Self-delusion in the face of evil is the easiest way out.</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/21/the-strange-case-of-hiwa-abdul-rahman-rashul-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-95903</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/21/the-strange-case-of-hiwa-abdul-rahman-rashul-part-2/#comment-95903</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;W.O.&lt;br /&gt;
Have the deepest respect for your insights and professional opinions.  But what would have been an indication that the Bush administration was ever acting in “good faith”?  They ignored pre attack warnings, they were focused on Iraq long before the attck on 9/11, they lied and lied and lied about a connection between the two, they used the attack to invade Iraq , they seemed to have purposely flubbed the invasion, they tortured, they disbanded the Iraqi army, they conducted a secret wiretappping program without fulfilling their responsibility to inform the intelligence committee, there by undermining congress etc etc.&lt;br /&gt;
What are the hard facts on the ground that would have ever indicated “good faith”?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>W.O.<br />
Have the deepest respect for your insights and professional opinions.  But what would have been an indication that the Bush administration was ever acting in “good faith”?  They ignored pre attack warnings, they were focused on Iraq long before the attck on 9/11, they lied and lied and lied about a connection between the two, they used the attack to invade Iraq , they seemed to have purposely flubbed the invasion, they tortured, they disbanded the Iraqi army, they conducted a secret wiretappping program without fulfilling their responsibility to inform the intelligence committee, there by undermining congress etc etc.<br />
What are the hard facts on the ground that would have ever indicated “good faith”?</p>
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		<title>By: bcgister</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/21/the-strange-case-of-hiwa-abdul-rahman-rashul-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-95902</link>
		<dc:creator>bcgister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;While I agree that is almost certain to never happen, it strikes me as equally unlikely that any serious legal action is going to be taken against the soon-to-be-former members of Bush Co., LLC in this country. There are too many interests militating against it, including those of an incoming Obama administration, whom I don’t see hurrying to give away the augmented powers claimed for the executive branch by this country’s current leadership.&lt;br /&gt;
	Highlighting the ends which those powers served would only invite having them rolled back and, so, is contrary to any interest in keeping them. I, therefore, doubt that it will happen. In that case, any stimulus for action against American war criminals (and I’m not talking about the little fish who are regularly thrown to the sharks)  will have to come from outside the U.S.’ federal government.&lt;br /&gt;
	God willing, I will be voting for Obama; but, for the reasons I just touched on, I’m quite skeptical that his election will reverse the federal government’s authoritarian turn.&lt;br /&gt;
	Then again, I could be pleasantly surprised.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree that is almost certain to never happen, it strikes me as equally unlikely that any serious legal action is going to be taken against the soon-to-be-former members of Bush Co., LLC in this country. There are too many interests militating against it, including those of an incoming Obama administration, whom I don’t see hurrying to give away the augmented powers claimed for the executive branch by this country’s current leadership.<br />
	Highlighting the ends which those powers served would only invite having them rolled back and, so, is contrary to any interest in keeping them. I, therefore, doubt that it will happen. In that case, any stimulus for action against American war criminals (and I’m not talking about the little fish who are regularly thrown to the sharks)  will have to come from outside the U.S.’ federal government.<br />
	God willing, I will be voting for Obama; but, for the reasons I just touched on, I’m quite skeptical that his election will reverse the federal government’s authoritarian turn.<br />
	Then again, I could be pleasantly surprised.</p>
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		<title>By: ondelette</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/21/the-strange-case-of-hiwa-abdul-rahman-rashul-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-95901</link>
		<dc:creator>ondelette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;With reference also to 123.  The ICC operates on its own schedule, but it would undoubtedly be slow enough for Obama to declare right now that he intends to proceed with prosecutions. I don’t personally think he does.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;With reference to the other: Douglas Feith was in the early Reagan administration, and then left the government, but lobbied the administration very hard not to request ratification of the 1977 Additional Protocols to the Geneva Conventions (the ones which define other kinds of conflicts and treatment of people like insurgents and terrorists as prisoners).  At the time, the Israelis were very much against the protocols because the Palestinian Liberation Organization had declared it supported them, and that it intended to be a signatory to the Geneva Conventions (it actually did sign, but wasn’t regarded as a legitimate High Party).  Feith’s business partner L. Mark Zell, who is a settler in the West Bank, has been on record as saying that Palestinians deserved no rights to anything at all, because they settled on land that God gave to the Jews.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Feith was very proud of having convinced the Reagan administration to ask Congress to reject ratification, which it did in 1987.  If you look at charts of human rights declaration ratifications subsequent to that (on the U.N. site), you see that subsequently, the U.S. established a pattern of signing but not ratifying them.  This became much less effective after the Vienna Convention, because that convention is regarded as settled law in the U.S. (the courts have cited it), and it says that an international law treaty that is signed and not ratified still compels the signatory to comply with the treaty in all aspects except apprehending and prosecuting violators. This last is why the Bush people withdrew the signature from the Rome Statute.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For sources, start probably with the Wikipedia entry on Feith or google his name and the 1977 protocols, although the sources at the end of the entry on the additional protocols are useful in determining the Senate ratification history for the 1977 protocols. There isn’t much dispute that he was instrumental in getting the Reagan administration to recommend rejecting ratification.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My point was that the forces which converged in the Bush administration included this man who made a life long enterprise out of trying to put “terrorists” beyond the reach of Geneva. He did so because he doesn’t like Palestinians, but the consequences are that many holes and gaps that were supposed to be closed thirty years ago on the status of non-state actors can be argued to be ambiguous by current neocons and sovereigntists in and out of the Bush administration. So this thread, which was running parallel to the Cheney/Addington one in the Reagan years, is another causal factor to the current mess.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With reference also to 123.  The ICC operates on its own schedule, but it would undoubtedly be slow enough for Obama to declare right now that he intends to proceed with prosecutions. I don’t personally think he does.</p>
<p>With reference to the other: Douglas Feith was in the early Reagan administration, and then left the government, but lobbied the administration very hard not to request ratification of the 1977 Additional Protocols to the Geneva Conventions (the ones which define other kinds of conflicts and treatment of people like insurgents and terrorists as prisoners).  At the time, the Israelis were very much against the protocols because the Palestinian Liberation Organization had declared it supported them, and that it intended to be a signatory to the Geneva Conventions (it actually did sign, but wasn’t regarded as a legitimate High Party).  Feith’s business partner L. Mark Zell, who is a settler in the West Bank, has been on record as saying that Palestinians deserved no rights to anything at all, because they settled on land that God gave to the Jews.</p>
<p>Feith was very proud of having convinced the Reagan administration to ask Congress to reject ratification, which it did in 1987.  If you look at charts of human rights declaration ratifications subsequent to that (on the U.N. site), you see that subsequently, the U.S. established a pattern of signing but not ratifying them.  This became much less effective after the Vienna Convention, because that convention is regarded as settled law in the U.S. (the courts have cited it), and it says that an international law treaty that is signed and not ratified still compels the signatory to comply with the treaty in all aspects except apprehending and prosecuting violators. This last is why the Bush people withdrew the signature from the Rome Statute.</p>
<p>For sources, start probably with the Wikipedia entry on Feith or google his name and the 1977 protocols, although the sources at the end of the entry on the additional protocols are useful in determining the Senate ratification history for the 1977 protocols. There isn’t much dispute that he was instrumental in getting the Reagan administration to recommend rejecting ratification.</p>
<p>My point was that the forces which converged in the Bush administration included this man who made a life long enterprise out of trying to put “terrorists” beyond the reach of Geneva. He did so because he doesn’t like Palestinians, but the consequences are that many holes and gaps that were supposed to be closed thirty years ago on the status of non-state actors can be argued to be ambiguous by current neocons and sovereigntists in and out of the Bush administration. So this thread, which was running parallel to the Cheney/Addington one in the Reagan years, is another causal factor to the current mess.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/21/the-strange-case-of-hiwa-abdul-rahman-rashul-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-95900</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I understand that Obama has made a surprise pick for VP and it’s Diane Feinstein!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Eeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!&lt;br /&gt;
(Dives under the desk…)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I understand that Obama has made a surprise pick for VP and it’s Diane Feinstein!</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Eeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!<br />
(Dives under the desk…)</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/21/the-strange-case-of-hiwa-abdul-rahman-rashul-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-95899</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think you make some excellent points, especially this:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Democracy is meant to spread dissent throughout a population faster than violence can be used to counter that dissent. Thus are people forced to find consensus through negotiation and argument. The Rovian era exists because of intellectual isolation; the system is being gamed to amass power without having to resort to the historical methods of totalitarian systems. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When people watch teevee, when people hang out on the Internet, when people think of politics as ’sport’ — they only want to know ‘the winners’ without any true grasp of what future has been obliterated (ie, Al Gore and what he would have accomoplished on Climate Change between 2000 and today), as opposed to what we actually end up stuck with (ie, being lied to, having the armed forces used on behalf of Oil Majors) things come undone.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Having watched people who had such low opinions of their own worth that they didn’t feel they could stand in a public meeting and provide testimony about why their streams should not be pollluted and why their lands should not be flooded by overlogging, in many respects I think that it comes down to some kind of workshop mechanism. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If people are able to get help with basic skills:  ‘let’s go over what you want to say… now  practice… now refine… now you’re ready…’ then they can be extremely effective and surprise themselves.  And then they make a difference, and it changes them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Getting that started strikes me as fairly difficult for many of the reasons you state.&lt;br /&gt;
Social isolation is one big piece of the puzzle.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you make some excellent points, especially this:</p>
<blockquote><p>Democracy is meant to spread dissent throughout a population faster than violence can be used to counter that dissent. Thus are people forced to find consensus through negotiation and argument. The Rovian era exists because of intellectual isolation; the system is being gamed to amass power without having to resort to the historical methods of totalitarian systems. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>When people watch teevee, when people hang out on the Internet, when people think of politics as ’sport’ — they only want to know ‘the winners’ without any true grasp of what future has been obliterated (ie, Al Gore and what he would have accomoplished on Climate Change between 2000 and today), as opposed to what we actually end up stuck with (ie, being lied to, having the armed forces used on behalf of Oil Majors) things come undone.</p>
<p>Having watched people who had such low opinions of their own worth that they didn’t feel they could stand in a public meeting and provide testimony about why their streams should not be pollluted and why their lands should not be flooded by overlogging, in many respects I think that it comes down to some kind of workshop mechanism. </p>
<p>If people are able to get help with basic skills:  ‘let’s go over what you want to say… now  practice… now refine… now you’re ready…’ then they can be extremely effective and surprise themselves.  And then they make a difference, and it changes them.</p>
<p>Getting that started strikes me as fairly difficult for many of the reasons you state.<br />
Social isolation is one big piece of the puzzle.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/21/the-strange-case-of-hiwa-abdul-rahman-rashul-part-2/comment-page-2/#comment-95898</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Iambic pentameter was lurking on the fringe, waiting to participate in the theatre of it all. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;127/130 - The weird phrasing about “chain of command” from Richer and Maguire in the press release hit me as kind of like having some kids standing, frantically pointing at one guy, behind his back, while saying “I can certify that no one standing behind me was involved”  OVP wouldn’t be in CIA’s chain of command, would it?  And both Libby and Hannah are getting requests to appear.  But in the end, it won’t amount to much.  The desperation to keep St. Nancy cleansed in the blood of the lamb apparently will trump even the politically (as well as legally and morally) sound approach of ramping up a big investigation into the widely disliked Cheney and tieing the Republican to anything and everything about him going into the elections.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iambic pentameter was lurking on the fringe, waiting to participate in the theatre of it all. </p>
<p>127/130 &#8211; The weird phrasing about “chain of command” from Richer and Maguire in the press release hit me as kind of like having some kids standing, frantically pointing at one guy, behind his back, while saying “I can certify that no one standing behind me was involved”  OVP wouldn’t be in CIA’s chain of command, would it?  And both Libby and Hannah are getting requests to appear.  But in the end, it won’t amount to much.  The desperation to keep St. Nancy cleansed in the blood of the lamb apparently will trump even the politically (as well as legally and morally) sound approach of ramping up a big investigation into the widely disliked Cheney and tieing the Republican to anything and everything about him going into the elections.</p>
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