Christ; it’s bad enough what Rove accomplished in destroying our Republic, now he’s going international to destroy other republics with his demagoguery! Of course it says a lot about those folk who think he has something worth acting on.

You forgot to remind everyone of the context of Rove’s visit to Yalta!

Forgive me for reposting this question, but it seems relevant in light of the Ukrainian locale of this meeting:

In the first day of coverage the Russians accused the Ukraine of some involvement in Georgia. Does anyone remember the details of that?

Ukraine is contantly mentioned by our pundits as being next in Russia’s sights. I’m curious of whether there is any genuine provocation.

You mean Ukraine, or that this was the trip for which he blew off HJC?

When the Obama campaign mentioned Scheunemann the first day, it really touched a nerve. McCain retorted that Obama and the Kremlin were reading off the same page, supported by Politico.

The latter — the exclamation point was supposed to convey amusement.

I feel like I need to take a shower every time Bob Shrum is mentioned. (I’d say the same about Rove except it’s a given.) Maybe they couldn’t get Mary Matalin.

emptywheel:

Among my questions for McCain in the earlier thread: when have you most recently spoken with Saakashvili, and about what (McCain boasted yesterday of having had Saakashvili, whose name he cannot pronounce, as a friend for years, and of being in regular touch with him, and his visits to Georgia go back to 1997 (link)).

Here is the substance, what little there is, of that Russian accusation of Ukrainian involvement:

MOSCOW, Aug 9 (Reuters) - Russia accused Ukraine on Saturday of encouraging Georgia to carry out “ethnic cleansing” in the separatist region of South Ossetia by providing arms, the Russian Foreign Ministry said.

“The Ukrainian government, which has been enthusiastically arming Georgian troops from top to bottom, was in fact encouraging Georgia to attack and carry out ethnic cleansing in South Ossetia,” the ministry said in a statement on its website www.mid.ru.

It added that ex-Soviet Ukraine had “no moral right to teach others how to do things.” (Reporting by Tanya Ustinova, writing by Amie Ferris-Rotman)

McCain knows the president of Georgia so well that he calls him Shaska-veely.

-G

Don’t forget that Bush 1 did the same damn thing back in 90 when he gave Saddam the ‘go-ahead’ to invade Kuwait. Like father, like son.

OT — ‘Gitmo On The Platte’ Set As Holding Cell For DNC Protesters

EW! amazing as always.
In the first place, WTF is Rove–domestic election expert–doing at a conference regarding the relations of European countries with one another??????

Wasn’t there a story a couple of months ago that Shrum was advising Gordon Brown? I’m guessing that since Democrats here wised up to his election-losing ways, he had to “retire” and now sends around resumes in Europe that list all the big names he worked for, but nothing about how successful he was.

One hopes Europeans may be smart enough to figure it out the first time a campaign crashes and burns, instead of allowing him an entire second career.

And then there is this:

Weeks before bombs started falling on Georgia, a security researcher in suburban Massachusetts was watching an attack against the country in cyberspace.

Jose Nazario of Arbor Networks in Lexington noticed a stream of data directed at Georgian government sites containing the message: “win+love+in+Rusia.” …

Researchers at Shadowserver, a volunteer group that tracks malicious network activity, reported that the Web site of the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili, had been rendered inoperable for 24 hours by multiple D.D.O.S. attacks. They said the command and control server that directed the attack was based in the United States and had come online several weeks before it began the assault.

As it turns out, the July attack may have been a dress rehearsal for an all-out cyberwar once the shooting started between Georgia and Russia. According to Internet technical experts, it was the first time a known cyberattack had coincided with a shooting war. …

Don’t know. I did notice that Tony Blair was the keynote speaker at the Yalta conference.

They sent us Christopher Hichens …. seems only fair that we send them Shrum, doncha think?

So, let me get this straight. The top foreign policy advisor for the presumptive Republican presidential nominee is an agent of a foreign government that wants to go to war with Russia, and the entire Village thinks that’s a good idea. Hmmmmm. Curious.

I guess whenever Republicans are in trouble for screwing up, they foment a war somewhere in the hope that everyone will forget about the screw-up, and line up to support the Commander Guy.

I hope by now that tactic is wearing a little thin.

Bob in HI

No. We need him to write concession speeches. He’s really very good.

What curious timing. Air Force Halts Cyber Command Program:

After months touting its intention to be the front line for defending cyberspace, the Air Force has suspended plans to establish its much hyped Cyber Command program, according to Nextgov.
The program is being halted until new senior Air Force leaders have time to review it and determine a focus and direction.

Don’t compliment me–compliment brendanx, who is about 20 steps ahead of me on this and Georgia in general.

Hmmm. Rove certainly MIGHT have been involved, but there’s pretty clear evidence that Rice and Team McCain WERE involved, so I think they should take their lumps first. I think it’s going to be quite interesting when the increasingly delusional Saakashvili realizes that the emperor has no clothes on.

Do you not assume that he continues to be a mouth piece for W? I doubt the rift is anything more than cover.

And then there is this. Going on right in EW’s backyard. Does EW or Rayne tell us? Nooo. Hear it from TPM

McCain Dispatching Delegation To Georgia

At a news conference in Michigan this afternoon, John McCain ratcheted up his rhetoric on the Georgia-Russia conflict, saying his colleagues Lindsey Graham and Joe Lieberman would be traveling to Georgia “as soon as possible”.

and Bush’s Brain is also multi-tasking as McCain’s “informal” advisor and Faux Propaganda Network [and others] analyst.

Well, well, here we have turd blossom, McCain, and Scheunemann, lobbyist for Georgia and McCain’s primary foreign advisor, all trying to be so “presumptuous” as to try to talk with other country’s leaders and conduct foreign policy.

Seems like 2004, when Kerry was vilified for talking with foreign leaders while running for president. Where’s the outrage?

Georgie boy must feel soooo left out.

See TPM blog for amazing and very disturging develpments:
McCain on phone every day with Georgian president (don’t have time to paste in his name)
Mccain sending ‘non-partisan’ delegation to Georgia (Graham and Lieberman)

Truly bizarre. Will the GOP try to spin this dangerous nonsense as strength will inspire confidence in the US voter?
Or will it be a ‘Haig moment’ that reveals McCains very severe problems with common sense.

In that thing called ‘reality’ these actions seemd very dangerous and unacceptable -you know, innocent lives and national interests at stake…. WHILE the previous prime challange of our century (or was it millenium) radical Islamic extremism continues in TWO other wars, one of which not going well.

McCain is acting insane. I hope it does not rub off on the Bush administration, which so far has been many undesirable things, but not insane.

emptywheel:

They’re pretty tangential to the matter, but provide a certain context for our “foreign policy” in the region — I have a couple comments about Poland’s diplomatic involvement here in the previous thread — see the one at #21.

Puppets only have their masters’ delusions.

posted this at fdl-

you need to watch this ew, and everyone else..

aei panel about georgia today on cspan
frederick kagan toward the beginning.

told ecahn, i love these panels, because they love to hear themselves talk uninterrupted and always let something slip out, then let more slip out trying to clean it up.

here’s the aei thing

here’s the aei release for the event
http://www.aei.org/events/even…..detail.asp

here’s the panel/show aired on cspan, couldn’t find when they are going to re-air it.
click on the red button

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/…..d=280436-1

frederick kagan is toward the beginning.
replyReply
dmac

my link at 30–it runs 1:41

Commented at my homeblog on the irony of McCain doth-protesting too much about “politization” when questions were posed about Obama camp’s statements and then he announces his campaign butt-boys would be going to Georgia…but as official members of the Armed Services Committee, of course. And he got a dig in about Dems…while neglecting to mention any others on his side of the aisle going.

Hmmmm, and why does Mc”I am in charge”Haig presume leadership of Armed Services and assign his campaign teamers. Wouldn’t this situation be the provenance of Biden’s Foreign Relations Committee?

My question too. Could Karl Rove have found Yalta on a map before he got there?

Some one needs to call out these dangerous fools for what they are: dangerous foolish warmongers who are in it for narrow partisan gain.

If they had their way we would have the following wars
China
Afghanistan
Iraq
Syria
Iran
Russia

The Paraguay connection is, beside Bush’s land deal, the
War of the Triple Alliance
and
The Grand Chaco wars
(nice articles on both in Wikipedia)

This is absolute madness, and should be transparent madness by now.

That’s an interesting consideration. I can’t decide whether to say because we’ve known it all along or some of us have still not recognized that truth. Both are true, I guess. Yep, No clothes.

oboblomov adds this:

Are you looking for something like this?

At the same time the Russian air force started to bomb Georgian air fields. At least four Georgian planes were destroyed on the ground. Two Russian planes were shot down by SA-5 anti air missiles which Georgia was not known to have. These weapons were possibly manned by Ukrainian mercenaries.

What are those 2 idiots, Graham and Lieberman, supposed to do in Georgia except get in the way and annoy the hell out of Putin? This is very dangerous.

The new “Mutually Assured Destruction…”

(Apparently Shrum has been a “close advisor” to Brown since at least last September, and an informal advisor since 2005.)

I’ll say this: the Administration is even more desperate to push back against claims that they encouraged Georgia’s initial crackdown than you’d think they would be (compare, for example, their response to claims we gave Israel the go-ahead to invade Lebanon in 2006 or bomb Syria in 2007, and their response to claims that we encouraged Maliki to crack down on Basra). There’s something going on–and given Karl Rove’s presence close to he scene of the crime, I’ve got my suspicions.

Nice tie in even when Bush sends in the Puppets instead of American troops his war plans still fail and the White House must disavow all knowledge.
Which leaves Condi and Rove in a catch 22 situation if they talked to Georgia about their war then they are responsible for pushing another losing war.
If they talked to Georgia about the war and Georgia didn’t listen to them…well given both of their past records of failure then they are not major players in American foreign politics, yes I know that is not news.
But they still thought they were.
Or Condi and Rove are so far out of the loop they pushed peace (not likely) and others in the White House like Darth just went around them again.
But given our recent war games with Georgia who desperately wants to be in NATO we can’t seriously claim they went Rogue.

They’re supposed to help win an election.

I get 404 error on c-span link. “Not Found” on aei link.

Yalta? Malta? Yahtahey mon, wots thee deefrance?

Can you imagine the uproar if Obama sent a team over? The neocons would be screaming in the streets.

(seroiusly, the cspan link i gave is the game plan, they spilled.i really hope people watch it, and pay attention to what they left out)

well, saakashvili quoted mccain in one of his pressers, so, could rove be far away? someone’s directing the information train.

neo-cons have MILLIONS invested in this. keep that in mind.

and part of a comment i made earlier-

they don’t want bush (edit-or condi)anywhere near it–too much money invested to screw it up now, too many years to get here, and it’s too complicated for him, too many lobbyists and legislators involved. hard to keep track.

(1) McCain has really slipped his leash on this one. Not that they’ve really been out in front (or competent) with their response but the WH should remind him that the State Department calls the shots and he is still a senator, albeit one that doesn’t bother to show up or vote.

(2) With so much apparent Republican complicity in this fiasco, it seems like any concrete substantiation of their involvement could be an election clincher. It would be nice if the MSM would do their job but I know I’m pissing up a rope with that one.

(3) Won’t sending fanny-gerbils Joe and Lindsey abroad put McCain at great risk of experiencing postpartum depression?

Lieberman is going to Georgia to encourage them to send their troops back into the Islamfascist war; Graham is going to help the winning side set of war crimes tribunals.

Can’t imagine any two Senators who’d be less helpful in Georgia.

Okay, now they really should look at Logan Act violations.

That’s how you know that “presumptuous” means “uppity.” Despite the protestations of the pundits, the significant factor in the story wasn’t “acting presidential,” it was accusation that there was something wrong with that.

I might disagree with you on that Bush admininstration “insane” part. (g)

Anyone given any thought to the fact that these events might be manipulated by the Bush administration and the McCain campaign to put voters into a “let’s not change horses in mid stream” mode, aka vote Repub?

Believe me, I believe that the Bush administration is right in there in cahoots, with the McCain campaign. Should it turn out that McCain can lay any claim to settling this dispute, advantage McCain. Should it turn out to be all out war, there are many voters out there who remember the fear of the former Soviet Union, and fear its return to power, hense the changing horses in mid stream mentality.

Boy, the Bush/Cheney syndicate has a miserable record when it comes to proxy wars.

Israel v. Hezbollah

Hezbollah v. Lebanon

Hamas v. Fatah

Georgia v. Russia

The US backed side lost every time.

Now we have the latest development. Syria and Lebanon have established diplomatic ties for the first time ever.

-G

omg bmaz, I was typing something below and couldn’t see your whole comment and thought it was just some snarkster - ayfkm ?? on whose dime ? as Senators ? or Campaign Surrogates ??

o/t
did y’all see this from the FDL Newsbox ?: Generals testify against Brig. Gen. “We Can’t Have Acquittals !” Hartmann - somewhere Swift and Mora are smiling.

McClatchy

With both Joe and Lindsey out of the country, this would be a good time to ask McCain about the difference between Sunni, Shia, al Qaeda and Iran.

Yalta conference, huh? There goes history, rhyming again.

Maybe the current Mc”I am in charge”Haig spotlight grab is the kind of thing Thad Cochran was warning about.

I’m a bit sorry to read this about Graham, on this one single score. I have watched him several times in hearings come down really uncompromisingly against torture — I mean, he just wiped the floor with Hartmann. It obviously disturbs him personally and deeply. He was a JAG, yes?

I recognize the other problems, but …

Looks exactly like Children of Men!!!!!!
omg

Their desperation has a familiar target: oil. Oh, and add natural gas as well. The pipelines that run through Georgia are the only source that don’t go through Russia or Iran. (1 million barrels a day for the oil alone…natural gas even more…)

Since his last fumble on those issues we’ve been informed that he does not speak for his campaign.

Since McCain is ‘talking to Georgia every day’ and McCain ‘knows how to win wars’ and now there is war, shouldn’t we be looking at whether or not McCain was presumptive enough to encourage war? TPM says that McCain is sending a ‘bipartisan’ delegation to Georgia (Graham and Lieberman) to solve this problem (I don’t see TPM’s source, but this could be very interesting if true).

I’ve noticed that every time Condi leaves town Cheney does something - last September she left town and Israel bombed something in Syria, which also sabotaged her scheduled November peace talks. In December 2007 she visited Kirkuk and the Turks bombed the Kurds. And so on. Now she is going to Georgia, elections are in November, and if I were in Iran I would wonder if the ‘new product’ being rolled out in September will be some kind of bombing.

i pasted it, from comments, forgot, brb…

New CHS at fdl

Charlie McCarthy without his strings.

LOL

Now he’s a JAG-off.

-G

Sheesh, you guys. It was bad enough when Karl Rove was running your elections and prosecutions. But now he’s running your foreign policy? Tell me not to panic.

paajarito–here’s the links. sorry ”bout that.

forgot to mention, toward the end, comparisons to the 1930’s are mentioned over and over and over………

aei info of event.
http://www.aei.org/events/even.....detail.asp

click red button to watch
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/.....d=280436-1

description page of program

http://inside.c-spanarchives.o.....=566908072

If your idea is right then older voters who remember the cold war should shift their votes more.
We probably won’t see accurate polls on this for a week though.
I hope this issue does not carry on until the election thoughbecause then it could really hurt us.

thanks egreg. appreciate it even though i don’t say it often enough.

Jeez. That is unfortunately so much more believable than this.

We told them they had to keep their unilateral cease-fire,” the official said. “We said, ‘Be smart about this, don’t go in and don’t fall for the Russian provocation. Do not do this.’ ”

Around the same time, members of the Georgia army unit assigned to a training program under American advisers did not show up for the day’s exercises. In retrospect, American officials said, it is obvious that they had been ordered to mobilize for the mission in South Ossetia by their commanders.

“This caught us totally by surprise,” said one military officer who tracks events in the region, including the American-Georgian training effort. “It really knocked us off our chairs.”

I’ve been thinking that this whole war thing could not have been unanticipated, given that we bug everyone. So we wanted this war, for a reason as yet to be determined.

Huh. What day did the Obama Krewe fly to Honolulu, vs. what day did the Georgians first poke the bear? Compensating for time zone differences, I mean.

Reports saying that Bill Gwatney, Arkansas Democratic Chairman, Has Died After Today’s Shooting

They should have better sense than to go into what is clearly a war zone. At least as long as they’re actually members of Congress. (After they’re kicked out for incompetence at their paid jobs, it’s fine with me.)

My actual first thought on this I won’t post, as it would get removed by the Lurking Mods.

Hahahaha….excellent.

I’ve noticed that every time Condi leaves town Cheney does something - last September she left town and Israel bombed something in Syria, which also sabotaged her scheduled November peace talks. In December 2007 she visited Kirkuk and the Turks bombed the Kurds. And so on. Now she is going to Georgia, elections are in November, and if I were in Iran I would wonder if the ‘new product’ being rolled out in September will be some kind of bombing.

So Darth is afraid of confronting Condi directly he has to do stuff behind her back I see Snark Potential here.

I’m late to the party, but have two things to add:

1. Rather than compare McCain and his butt boys’ actions here to Kerry visiting European leaders in 2004, I would compare this to Reagan’s behind the scenes negotiations with Iran in 1980.

2. Watch. The. Aircraft. Carriers.

OT -

Cindy McCain treated for “minor sprain” after supporter shook her hand too hard

Jeez. Neither the candidate nor his wife are in too good physical shape, apparently….

Rest in Peace!

Let’s hope I’m wrong. As one who voted Repub (for Nixon’s second term), once in their entire life, because I was fed that malarky, I would not like to see others do the same. It’s the only vote I have ever deeply regretted. To this day.

I do believe that the McCain campaign is totally in sync with the Bush administration with one goal in mind, to elect McCain. Party above Nation could very well be their motto.

He probably breaks into her Watergate apartment too. Steals sheet music, sprays pesticides on her fruit.

Beyond awful. Peace to all touched by this.

Two questions for starters: Why is the announcement coming from Bill & HRC? Why are the police not confirming the victim’s identity?

The police did announce it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26181389/

Rove’s hand is ALL OVER managing the narrative…the “discernible reality.”

He’s advising McCain. This entire “war” was of Rove’s creation. It is 100% political - to the benefit of McCain.

Watching CNN this afternoon it became painfully obvious that the entire afternoon was a Rove-produced made for tee-vee event. An open satellite line to Georgia allowed the Georgian puppet to broadcast the Rove narrative to the American People (in perfect english). The announcer dutifully asked the questions that Rove scripted, including asking Georgia’s President how helpful McCain has been during this crisis.

Next up - a cut to the McCain news conference in Dearborn, already in progress…totally “on message.” All of the “journalists” were right on script, asking McCain questions as though he were ALREADY PRESIDENT.

With CNN broadcasting his message live, McCain announced that he was sending Vice President Lieberman to Georgia on a fact finding mission.

THIS IS THE MARK OF KARL ROVE, who is SO GOOD at what he does, it is evidence of his direct involvement.

Karl Rove is guilty of CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT GENOCIDE (at the least).

Rove = Terrorist.

Around 2:50 in the YouTube, an airhead authoritatively frets that, “The Europeans have to deal with this because America (won’t use force).” [my paraphrase] Give that airhead 10 out of 10 possible points on the Pundit Vapidness Scale! Evidently, the role in all this of America’s lost moral authority won’t be mentioned by Villagers.

bmaz re: Cyberwars — So is this the first Neofeudalist conflict…? I ponder, because the Neofeudalist paradigm more closely fits the convergence of Israelis + neocons + Rove/GOP lobbyists + Georgia… against what, precisely?
Against Putin’s Gazprom interests and a revitalized, newly proud Russian military…?
As a means to for neofeudalists to control Caspian Sea oil…?

It’s confusing.

I’m with EW:

There’s something going on–and given Karl Rove’s presence close to he scene of the crime, I’ve got my suspicions.

10-4, and no longer an issue, though FWIW that seems to have come in the police news conference, after the Bill/Hil release.

According to the Ark Times, it’s true. Gwatney died, and his assailant was killed in a shootout after a chase.
h/t TPM

“The Architect” - a flashback:

August 14, 2006
The UK Terror plot: what’s really going on?

I have been reading very carefully through all the Sunday newspapers to try and analyze the truth from all the scores of pages claiming to detail the so-called bomb plot. Unlike the great herd of so-called security experts doing the media analysis, I have the advantage of having had the very highest security clearances myself, having done a huge amount of professional intelligence analysis, and having been inside the spin machine.

So this, I believe, is the true story.

None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn’t be a plane bomber for quite some time.

In the absence of bombs and airline tickets, and in many cases passports, it could be pretty difficult to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt that individuals intended to go through with suicide bombings, whatever rash stuff they may have bragged in internet chat rooms.

What is more, many of those arrested had been under surveillance for over a year - like thousands of other British Muslims. And not just Muslims. Like me. Nothing from that surveillance had indicated the need for early arrests.

In all of this, the one thing of which I am certain is that the timing is deeply political. This is more propaganda than plot.

http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/a.....ror_p.html

_______________________

Despite his prior illegal actions, Karl Rove still retained his security clearance, and knew for WEEKS prior to London’s fake terror alert what was coming. It was a Rove Production. This gave Rove the time necessary to plan a full frontal assault on the minds of the American People.

With the knowledge of a terror-scare coming soon, all day Wednesday the entire Neo-Conservative Republican political apparatus had been busy assailing their political enemy’s supposed unwillingness to fight terrorism. On Thursday the Neo-Con assault intensified and finally peaked when news of the British scheme was made public. Then, in the most vile and unbecoming manner possible, Republicans accused Democrats of having forgotten the attacks of 9/11. Some Republicans were even gleeful enough to remind reporters that with the anniversary of 9/11 fast approaching their attack on Democrats, coupled with the London conspiracy would do wonders for their lagging poll numbers:

“Weeks before September 11th, this is going to play big,” one White House official said.

The timing of the release of this information was not coincidental. Let’s take a look at how many other circumstances coincided with this fake terror scare…

Lieberman was not the Democratic Party candidate - he was quite literally the Israeli candidate.

AIPAC lost to Lamont, cracking the door open for an anti-AIPAC rebellion at the polls.

Less than 36 hours later…
“TERROR IN THE SKIES” was the headline on all news programming in the United States - and CNN would have you believe that the entire world changed that day (again).

The world didn’t change - but CNN’s fear-mongering role in it on behalf of Israel has been clearly exposed.

All of the President’s NeoCons have made it known since Lieberman’s loss to Lamont, just how important Lieberman has been to their agenda - the Zionist Agenda.

They knew that Lieberman would lose, and Rove planned a full frontal attack for the aftermath – which by necessity always leads with a terror scare. Rove even called Lieberman directly to offer his help.

As part of the game – a CNN talking head asks the question…
“Lamont is the Al Qaeda Candidate???”

KARL ROVE WROTE THAT TALKING POINT. CNN READ IT ON AIR.

Rove invented the London Terror scare for political reasons. Rove helped Lieberman with strategy and fund raising in his transition to “Independent” - including arranging for a fundraiser hosted by none other than Mel Sembler, who later went on to become the leader of the Scooter Libby legal defense fund. The same Ambassador Mel Sembler who was central to Ledeen’s Niger Yellowcake letter forgery in Italy.

KARL…YOU’RE TOO GOOD AT WHAT YOU DO. YOUR FINGERPRINTS ARE ALL OVER THIS GEORGIA THING! The timing, coinciding with the opening ceremonies of the Olympics? Beautiful Karl, just beautiful.

You love the attention, don’t you? You can’t help by take credit, can you?

Anybody notice how fast the story about a certain scientist dropped completely out of the headlines into the ether?

Bruce Ivins Who?

”That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. ”We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”

Karl Rove

No clue on the timing, but I think they got the initial news of the shooting directly from the Arkansas governor Beebe; maybe that is who notified them of the death too. Dunno. I understand that Obama was also out with a simultaneous statement too.

Re #1, Yes! Or also Nixon and Kissinger’s meddling in the run-up to the 1968 election.

Re #2, Iran, maybe (god forbid). But I think sending the carriers to the coast Georgia is highly doubtful. The admirals would throw a fit at the prospect of them getting trapped on the wrong side of the Dardanelles and the Bosphorus. It also raises the question of the status of those waters and what permissions are therefore needed to pass through them, a question to which I don’t off hand know the answer. Considering that both sides of those narrow straits are Turkish territory, are they Turkish territorial waters?

dmac

Can you provide more details? The release is a dead link right now, not in internet archive. (And if it’s REALLY interesting, get a screen capture!)

Does sending two half-wits add up to a full wit?
At least its better than sending a nitwit (himself).

Bob in HI

RICE – The enabler of Armageddon:

Secretary of State Rice’s response to the disaster in New Orleans was: “The Lord Jesus Christ is going to come on time.” She added: “If we just wait.” “On time”? How does Rice know the exact time Armageddon starts? “If we just wait”? That means in her, that is our, lifetime!

By using NSA intelligence to set an invisible tripwire, the Bush administration is laying the condition for regional conflagration with untold consequences — from Pakistan to Afghanistan, from Iraq to Israel. Secretly devising a scheme that might thrust Israel into a ring of fire cannot be construed as a blunder. It is a deliberate, calculated and methodical plot.

In order to try to understand the neoconservative road map, senior national security professionals have begun circulating among themselves a 1996 neocon manifesto against the Middle East peace process. Titled “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,” its half-dozen authors included neoconservatives highly influential with the Bush administration — Richard Perle, first-term chairman of the Defense Policy Board; Douglas Feith, former undersecretary of defense; and David Wurmser, Cheney’s chief Middle East aide.

Richard Haass, the Middle East advisor on the elder Bush’s National Security Council and President Bush’s first-term State Department policy planning director, and now president of the Council on Foreign Relations, openly scoffed at Bush’s Middle East policy in an interview on July 30 in the Washington Post:

“The arrows are all pointing in the wrong direction. The biggest danger in the short run is it just increases frustration and alienation from the United States in the Arab world. Not just the Arab world, but in Europe and around the world. People will get a daily drumbeat of suffering in Lebanon and this will just drive up anti-Americanism to new heights.” When asked about the president’s optimism, he replied, “An opportunity? Lord, spare me. I don’t laugh a lot. That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard in a long time. If this is an opportunity, what’s Iraq? A once-in-a-lifetime chance?”

It is a deliberate, calculated and methodical plot.

“A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm”

Meyrav Wurmser was its author.

http://fairuse.100webcustomers.....on027.html

Someone should remind McCain that he has not actually been elected President yet.

Bob in HI

Armageddon Ready?

“President Bush said to all of us: ‘I’m driven with a mission from God. ‘God would tell me, ‘George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan’.” “And I did, and then God would tell me, ‘George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq…’ And I did.

“At Church one day [Tom DeLay, House Majority Leader] listened as the pastor declared that ‘the war between America and Iraq is the gateway to the Apocalypse.’ DeLay rose to speak, not only to the congregation but to 225 Christian TV and radio stations. ‘Ladies and gentlemen,’ he said, ‘what has been spoken here tonight is the truth of God.’”

No, no, no, that’s far too silly. Karl Rove is not a plenipotentiary, after all.

Karl Rove and Propaganda:

http://dailydocket.blogspot.co.....ganda.html

But whereas Hitler was a true master of propaganda, and his minister a far less talented functionary, today the situation is reversed: our propaganda minister is the master, and our leader his functionary. Karl Rove is so confident of his strategy that he now announces it to the public! In January of this year,

Rove noted that we face “a ruthless enemy” and “need a commander in chief and a Congress who understand the nature of the threat and the gravity of the moment America finds itself in.”

Here’s more:

“[T]he people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”

— Karl Rove (oops!) Hermann Goering

Karl:

Put your hand on the bible.
Now, under oath, do you swear that the NSA, AT&T, Comverse and others were NOT conducting Warrantless Wiretaps in advance of 9/11 during the early months of the Bush Administration, so help you God?

What’s that Karl, I can’t hear you, could you speak up please, you’re mumbling.

You’re not willing to swear to it under oath?

You mean the Bush Administration ALREADY WAS engaged in warrantless wiretaps prior to 9/11, and 9/11 happened any way?

Well shit, that changes everything, doesn’t it Karl?

Maybe it’s the case that 9/11 could never have happened WITHOUT your warrantless wiretaps prior to 9/11.

How else could you orchestrate all of the interference (including shutting down the Able Danger program) to enable the attacks to be pulled off on the exact same day and at the exact same time as NORAD had been ordered to stand down to conduct drills simulating planes being hijacked and flown into buildings?

We know Karl.

We know what you did.

We know.

I don’t understand why there isn’t somebody on the Dem side smart enough to stand up and holler “Logan Act”. At worst it forces Bush to come out publicly give McCain a hug. At best, the pundits all start to question McCain’s foreign policy credentials.

LOL

Right you are. Quick, schedule a debate

I’ve been wondering whether, with Condi in assent within the Administration and t