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	<title>Comments on: I Hate to Say I Told You So&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/12/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so/comment-page-2/#comment-94475</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;They never should have been.  Schumer is a pompous windbag and Schumer is for whatever helps Schumer not the country.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Pelossi is a characature of herself.  She is a walking Saturday Night Live skit and the country has the lack of democracy its apathy deserves in both of them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Schumer is over 21 and he passed the NY bar.  He knew damn well what Mukasey did on the SDNY bench when he rounded  up scores of people who had done nothing as material witnesses. But he still lavished praise on him at SJC and backed him to the hilt.  Now ask Schumer what he installed as AG and how it differs from Sylvio Dante from &lt;em&gt;The Sopranos.&lt;/em&gt;Mukasey also made a fool of himself trying to diagnose blunt abdominal truama from the bench when he couldn’t tell his belly button from a Windows Start Button.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They never should have been.  Schumer is a pompous windbag and Schumer is for whatever helps Schumer not the country.</p>
<p>Pelossi is a characature of herself.  She is a walking Saturday Night Live skit and the country has the lack of democracy its apathy deserves in both of them.</p>
<p>Schumer is over 21 and he passed the NY bar.  He knew damn well what Mukasey did on the SDNY bench when he rounded  up scores of people who had done nothing as material witnesses. But he still lavished praise on him at SJC and backed him to the hilt.  Now ask Schumer what he installed as AG and how it differs from Sylvio Dante from <em>The Sopranos.</em>Mukasey also made a fool of himself trying to diagnose blunt abdominal truama from the bench when he couldn’t tell his belly button from a Windows Start Button.</p>
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		<title>By: Xenos</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/12/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so/comment-page-2/#comment-94441</link>
		<dc:creator>Xenos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Maybe it is just me, but a $500,000 fine and disbarment sound pretty punitive to me.  But that may not be deriving from the Hatch Act - the way the code sections are put together I really can not tell.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.osc.gov/ha_fed.htm#penalties&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;OSC website&lt;/a&gt; gives a nice list of  criminal statutes that may apply to situations where Hatch Act violations are taking place.  The DOJ internal report seems to neatly skip around the possibility of these criminal violations taking place.  My favorite from page 121 of the report is this one:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Finally, we concluded that Goodling engaged in misconduct by&lt;br /&gt;
making misrepresentations to the Civil Division attorneys representing&lt;br /&gt;
the Department in the Gonzalez v. Gonzales litigation. An attorney from&lt;br /&gt;
the Civil Division interviewed Goodling in January 2007 to learn how the&lt;br /&gt;
OAG had handled the IJ hiring process. In the interview, Goodling told&lt;br /&gt;
the attorney that she did not take political considerations into account in&lt;br /&gt;
IJ hiring.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As PetePierce notes, that is not just misconduct, but a crime in and of itself.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe it is just me, but a $500,000 fine and disbarment sound pretty punitive to me.  But that may not be deriving from the Hatch Act &#8211; the way the code sections are put together I really can not tell.</p>
<p>The <a href="http://www.osc.gov/ha_fed.htm#penalties" rel="nofollow">OSC website</a> gives a nice list of  criminal statutes that may apply to situations where Hatch Act violations are taking place.  The DOJ internal report seems to neatly skip around the possibility of these criminal violations taking place.  My favorite from page 121 of the report is this one:</p>
<blockquote><p>Finally, we concluded that Goodling engaged in misconduct by<br />
making misrepresentations to the Civil Division attorneys representing<br />
the Department in the Gonzalez v. Gonzales litigation. An attorney from<br />
the Civil Division interviewed Goodling in January 2007 to learn how the<br />
OAG had handled the IJ hiring process. In the interview, Goodling told<br />
the attorney that she did not take political considerations into account in<br />
IJ hiring.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>As PetePierce notes, that is not just misconduct, but a crime in and of itself.</p>
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		<title>By: MrWhy</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/12/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so/comment-page-2/#comment-94439</link>
		<dc:creator>MrWhy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Don’t necessarily disagree, but this is punishing the wrong person, the beneficiary, not the perpetrator.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don’t necessarily disagree, but this is punishing the wrong person, the beneficiary, not the perpetrator.</p>
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		<title>By: MrWhy</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/12/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so/comment-page-2/#comment-94434</link>
		<dc:creator>MrWhy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;To prevent a repeat of the behaviour of Goodling and others, consequences have to be real, enforceable, and punitive. Does that mean toughening the Hatch Act? Sounds like it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To prevent a repeat of the behaviour of Goodling and others, consequences have to be real, enforceable, and punitive. Does that mean toughening the Hatch Act? Sounds like it.</p>
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		<title>By: KenMuldrew</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/12/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so/comment-page-2/#comment-94431</link>
		<dc:creator>KenMuldrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;It almost reads like the next installment of CJ Sansom’s wonderful Shardlake series:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Mr. Ng’s lawyer, Master Shardlake of Lincoln’s Inn, contends that when he complained of severe pain that did not respond to a physician’s treatment, and grew too weak to walk or even stand to call for his family, Lord Cromwell’s officials accused him of faking his condition. They denied him a chair and refused pleas for an independent medical evaluation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Instead, the sworn statements say, guards at the Newgate Prison, dragged him from his bed on July 30, carried him in shackles to a carriage, bruising his arms and legs, and drove him two hours to the Tower, where an  officer showed him the rack and pressured him to withdraw all pending appeals of his case and accept incarceration.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[that’s a different Cromwell than earlier in the thread, fwiw]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Well, at least plumbing has progressed substantially since the 1500s.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It almost reads like the next installment of CJ Sansom’s wonderful Shardlake series:</p>
<blockquote><p>Mr. Ng’s lawyer, Master Shardlake of Lincoln’s Inn, contends that when he complained of severe pain that did not respond to a physician’s treatment, and grew too weak to walk or even stand to call for his family, Lord Cromwell’s officials accused him of faking his condition. They denied him a chair and refused pleas for an independent medical evaluation.</p>
<p>Instead, the sworn statements say, guards at the Newgate Prison, dragged him from his bed on July 30, carried him in shackles to a carriage, bruising his arms and legs, and drove him two hours to the Tower, where an  officer showed him the rack and pressured him to withdraw all pending appeals of his case and accept incarceration.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>[that’s a different Cromwell than earlier in the thread, fwiw]</p>
<p>Well, at least plumbing has progressed substantially since the 1500s.</p>
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		<title>By: Xenos</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/12/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so/comment-page-2/#comment-94428</link>
		<dc:creator>Xenos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/12/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so/#comment-94428</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The text of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gonzaleswatch.com/2007/05/11/judge-oks-granting-monica-goodling-immunity-for-testimony-in-us-attorney-firings-probe/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;order granting Goodling immunit&lt;/a&gt;y seems awfully narrow, just applying to criminal prosecution.  Since the OSC can not pursue criminal prosecutions (those get referred back to the DOJ, it appears), I don’t see how the immunity deal protects her.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If indeed 5 USC 1215 is the correct code section for penalties of the Prohibited Personnel Practices that the OSC is empowered to investigate (I don’t know this area of the law beyond what is at the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.osc.gov/ppp.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;OSC website&lt;/a&gt;), Goodling could face civil penalties of $1000 per infraction.  That is a lot of semolians when one considers how her role for two years was to break every damn Prohibited Personnel Practice on the books.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Maybe it is settled law that criminal immunity automatically covers administrative prosecutions, too.  I have no idea, and no experience with this stuff.  Anybody out there know about this?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The text of the <a href="http://www.gonzaleswatch.com/2007/05/11/judge-oks-granting-monica-goodling-immunity-for-testimony-in-us-attorney-firings-probe/" rel="nofollow">order granting Goodling immunit</a>y seems awfully narrow, just applying to criminal prosecution.  Since the OSC can not pursue criminal prosecutions (those get referred back to the DOJ, it appears), I don’t see how the immunity deal protects her.</p>
<p>If indeed 5 USC 1215 is the correct code section for penalties of the Prohibited Personnel Practices that the OSC is empowered to investigate (I don’t know this area of the law beyond what is at the <a href="http://www.osc.gov/ppp.htm" rel="nofollow">OSC website</a>), Goodling could face civil penalties of $1000 per infraction.  That is a lot of semolians when one considers how her role for two years was to break every damn Prohibited Personnel Practice on the books.</p>
<p>Maybe it is settled law that criminal immunity automatically covers administrative prosecutions, too.  I have no idea, and no experience with this stuff.  Anybody out there know about this?</p>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/12/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so/comment-page-2/#comment-94423</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I do not see, Hatch Act not withstanding, how Goodling cannot be prosecuted by the provision in 18USC 1001 &lt;strong&gt;for lying to a US agency.&lt;/strong&gt;  She clearly has lied to lawyers for DOJ in sn investigation, as well as to Congress, and this is prosecuted hundreds of times a week in the 94 US district courts.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;TITLE 18 &gt; PART I &gt; CHAPTER 47 &gt; § 1001Prev &#124; Next § 1001. Statements or entries generally&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—&lt;br /&gt;
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact; &lt;/strong&gt;(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or&lt;br /&gt;
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;&lt;br /&gt;
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both. If the matter relates to an offense under chapter 109A, 109B, 110, or 117, or section 1591, then the term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be not more than 8 years.&lt;br /&gt;
(b) Subsection (a) does not apply to a party to a judicial proceeding, or that party’s counsel, for statements, representations, writings or documents submitted by such party or counsel to a judge or magistrate in that proceeding.&lt;br /&gt;
(c) With respect to any matter within the jurisdiction of the legislative branch, subsection (a) shall apply only to—&lt;br /&gt;
(1) administrative matters, including a claim for payment, a matter related to the procurement of property or services, personnel or employment practices, or support services, or a document required by law, rule, or regulation to be submitted to the Congress or any office or officer within the legislative branch; or&lt;br /&gt;&lt;strong&gt;(2) any investigation or review, conducted pursuant to the authority of any committee, subcommittee, commission or office of the Congress, consistent with applicable rules of the House or Senate. &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not see, Hatch Act not withstanding, how Goodling cannot be prosecuted by the provision in 18USC 1001 <strong>for lying to a US agency.</strong>  She clearly has lied to lawyers for DOJ in sn investigation, as well as to Congress, and this is prosecuted hundreds of times a week in the 94 US district courts.</p>
<p>TITLE 18 &gt; PART I &gt; CHAPTER 47 &gt; § 1001Prev | Next § 1001. Statements or entries generally</p>
<p><strong>(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—<br />
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact; </strong>(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or<br />
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;<br />
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both. If the matter relates to an offense under chapter 109A, 109B, 110, or 117, or section 1591, then the term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be not more than 8 years.<br />
(b) Subsection (a) does not apply to a party to a judicial proceeding, or that party’s counsel, for statements, representations, writings or documents submitted by such party or counsel to a judge or magistrate in that proceeding.<br />
(c) With respect to any matter within the jurisdiction of the legislative branch, subsection (a) shall apply only to—<br />
(1) administrative matters, including a claim for payment, a matter related to the procurement of property or services, personnel or employment practices, or support services, or a document required by law, rule, or regulation to be submitted to the Congress or any office or officer within the legislative branch; or<br /><strong>(2) any investigation or review, conducted pursuant to the authority of any committee, subcommittee, commission or office of the Congress, consistent with applicable rules of the House or Senate. </strong></p>
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		<title>By: Xenos</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/12/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so/comment-page-2/#comment-94410</link>
		<dc:creator>Xenos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, I am now off in EPU territory, but the other nugget I have run across is that there seems to be &lt;a href=&quot;http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:LN7krBxsoxYJ:hsgac.senate.gov/_files/GageTestimony.pdf+statute+limitations+cio+hatch&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=1&amp;gl=us&amp;client=firefox-a&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;no statute of limitations&lt;/a&gt; on Hatch Act violations. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So if a corrupt OSC chief (just suspend your disbelief for a moment here) wanted to sink an administrative investigation of Goodling and Sampson he would have to prosecute them with the full due process and throw the decision. No other way to foreclose administrative prosecution in the future, and since Bloch has been investigating for 15 months now, I doubt he will manage to pull off such a trick in the few months remaining in the Bush administration.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I am now off in EPU territory, but the other nugget I have run across is that there seems to be <a href="http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:LN7krBxsoxYJ:hsgac.senate.gov/_files/GageTestimony.pdf+statute+limitations+cio+hatch&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=1&amp;gl=us&amp;client=firefox-a" rel="nofollow">no statute of limitations</a> on Hatch Act violations. </p>
<p>So if a corrupt OSC chief (just suspend your disbelief for a moment here) wanted to sink an administrative investigation of Goodling and Sampson he would have to prosecute them with the full due process and throw the decision. No other way to foreclose administrative prosecution in the future, and since Bloch has been investigating for 15 months now, I doubt he will manage to pull off such a trick in the few months remaining in the Bush administration.</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/12/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so/comment-page-2/#comment-94407</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Schumer to Mukasey ” I find these answers extremely disappointing” &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Mukasey…silence&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRy3ux1vt7g&amp;feature=related&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Pelosi, Feinstein, Schumer have to go.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Schumer to Mukasey ” I find these answers extremely disappointing” </p>
<p>Mukasey…silence<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRy3ux1vt7g&amp;feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v&#8230;..re=related</a> </p>
<p>Pelosi, Feinstein, Schumer have to go.</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/12/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so/comment-page-2/#comment-94404</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/08/12/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so/#comment-94404</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The majority of the American public is with Cheney&lt;br /&gt;
“SO”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just get those gas prices down so we can get to the mall.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And we wonder why some folks around the world fear and hate us&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The majority of the American public is with Cheney<br />
“SO”</p>
<p>Just get those gas prices down so we can get to the mall.  </p>
<p>And we wonder why some folks around the world fear and hate us</p>
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