There’s a lot that’s missing from this–but I’m seeing double. So please let me know what I’m missing.

August 30, 2005: Chertoff at CDC as Katrina rages!

Hi Marcy. IMHO you left what may be a significant datapoint off your timeline: http://archives.cnn.com/2001/H.....index.html

This is just a guess, but maybe the FBI’s attention was focused when a Senator Grassley started complaining. His letter is here:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/ms.....letter.pdf

4 - hmm,so in 2006, Lamb is reassigned to Knoxville and someone seems to have lit a fire under Grassley, who does do a lot of decent whistleblower work. Grassley starts wanting some info and he finds out that along with Lamb being out and a new leader in - the FBI has placed a blanket prohibition on any briefings to Congress about Amerithrax.

That’s pretty ballsy, for the FBI to just thumb the nose and say, “we won’t talk to any of you on any committees about any of this, no matter what you are asking”

@ Oct 5, 2001: Stevens, not Sevens. Perhaps put in little more, such as: “a photo editor for the Florida based tabloid, Sun, employed by American Media Inc”

There is precedent, I think, for not discussing ongoing criminal investigations with Congressional committees is there not?

(For some reason the source of that quote got eaten.) link for quote in comment 6

re October 22, 2001: Secret Service reports traces of anthrax on letter opening machine in White House:

What ever happened to that part of the story? Were spores ever found farther along the line than the ‘letter opening machine’? (I would imagine that there must have been a HUGE flap to examine every piece of mail that had come through for x days before, but did they come up dry?) I had (mis-)remembered events as spores having only gone to Democratic senators in the Senate Office Bldg.

Do you know that a google search for text from this post returns this very post? That’s fast!

Only thing I don’t see on here is when WH Cipro starts….and Cohen tip to take Cipro….

Brilliant–that at least marks when in 2006 they brought in Lisi.

Though that was by no means the first that Grassley got involved. He was cited in the original complaint (linked above) for sending angry letters in the September 2002 time frame.

The FBI had reason to cut off briefings–Hatfill was including a lot of the briefings and details in his motions to compel discovery in this time frame.

Can someone explain to me what an “obsession with a sorority is?, to me this just sounds so random, like something from Mad Libs. Kinda like you are never less than for feet from a spider, I’m sure there is always something near a mailbox

Okay–it’s tough to know which is the bigger drama-queen, Brett or the Pack who almost paid him $20 million to do nothing and decided it was better to pay him to compete to be a starter and like most other teams to have quaterback competition and let the old man who complete 66% of the passes he through for 28 touchdowns see if he can be the starter by opening game. Oh whoops…..

I thought I’d stumbled into packergeeks but this is “Anthrax Geeks”–the bacteria for which the United States has no acute defense whatsoever if fine powdered pulmonary anthrax is unleased and has a vaccine not approved to prevent pulmonary anthrax and has 60 million doses but pushing 305 million people. That’s only enough vaccine that has to be given over two years’ time and laced with a yearly booster for 19.6% of the population. That ain’t gonna help an acute attack.

Ya gotta love all these “addiction treatment groups.” I’ve seen people who have been recovering addicts for all of 3 months elevate themselves to addiction counselors with a lot less credentials than Paris and Britney. I wonder what ole Jean Duley was addicted to? Was it EtOH et. al? Boy Dooley sure seems to be a reliable source.

Has Duley been teaching at any driving schools lately?

And is Mary Kay Olson one of the cutsey twins involved in the Anthrax lulapalooza? She’s asking for

immunity from the DEA investigation immunity from what?

Prevent Defense:

Ain’t no vaccine that works faster than about 2 years and requires a yearly booster–ain’t no pills that will work unless you take Cipro and Tetracycline for 18 weeks and we don’t have enough and then it’s malpractice to give tetracycline to kids under age 8 or pregnant women because it inhibits osteogenisis/mineralization of bone and causes gray teeth in utero. Besides we don’t have enough and we certainly have not shown the will to spend money on a faster vaccine that actually works against particles small enough to cause the lethal pulmonary anthrax.

Ivins anthrax details for all timeline makers

WAPO Articles to Marinate Your Timeline

After the leadership switch, it is not clear whether/when the FBI was asking people in Princeton New Jersey near the mailbox that was the origin if they had seen Ivins or included Ivins in their pictures. They sure as hell included Hatfill.

“I couldn’t find my zipper if it were stiched and I really had to pee Mueller” waited years before dusting mailboxes in Princeton New Jersey until May 2002 to locate the area as Tom Daschle correctly points out. That’s not a very efficient time line.

And who let the doggies out? Turns out bloodhounds should be banned from law-enforcement and relegated to the halls of “gee ain’t they cute with them big ears” and to be used by hunters who arm themselves with guns but not the animals they hunt with guns to level the playing field.

Law enforcement sources at the time said the bloodhounds’ reactions at Dr. Hatfill’s apartment were one reason for the F.B.I.’s intense focus on him. But independent bloodhound handlers said it was highly unlikely that a useful scent could be obtained from letters that might have been handled by the perpetrator with gloves, had rubbed against thousands of other scents in the mail and then were irradiated to kill the dangerous spores.

In law enforcement vernacular that’s called a big “Woof Woof Whoopsie Daisey”!

One great part of my timeline is that while after 5 years the Federal Bungling Investigators = FBI did not have enough evidence to present to the Grand Jury and I have always known a Grand Jury could indict a ham sandwhich and has, but apparently not Bruce Ivins. So he kept his security clearance to handle and have access to the most dangerous pathogens on the planet.

Y’see the FBI can bust that first time crack dealer or more than twenty Chinese immigrants who unwittingly sold Pseudafed with no link to a meth lab and hold them during pre-trial but their prime suspect who has access to the most dangerous germ warfare microbes on the planet? Naw not so much–they kept Ivins’ high security clearance in place to the end–if Bruce Ivins even has anything to do with the mailings.

And Boy that DOJ OPR did a bang up job when they concluded stupidly that there were no leakers at DOJ and the FBI who were Kelli Arena’s main source at various happy hours. It’s happy now that ole Kelly seems to be off the air.

And a big shout out to progressively fattening porcine Nancy Grace since the federal suit against her has been allowed to go forward and hopefully she’ll pay some real bucks out to the family of Melinda Duckett for helping to kill her.

CNN and Nancy Porky Grace can’t quash suicide lawsuit

Significant:

October 9, 2001: Daschle and Leahy letters postmarked

Timing too close for coincidence….aimed at arriving on 9/11????

WTF is this????

Nevermind. Strike…got my months mixed up…fogetaboutit….

Btt…this is significant…

September 18, 2001: Less lethal “media” anthrax letters postmarked

How long did it take to “prepare” the anthrax before mailing it???? Six days?

It’s spelled Psuedafed and not Sudafed by me with a purpose. The idiots in the FDA have it restricted as OTC and keep records of Sudafed or sudoepehederine (which is actually ubiquitous in about 800 antihistamines that are OTC and RX) because they think stupidly that serious meth labs would go grocery to grocery and drug store to drug store buying meds with penny anti Sudafed in them.

No, when the started showing pix in Princeton, they showed ONLY Hatfill–that’s one of the reasons he alleges he was retaliated against for going public.

Here’s s’more:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f.....A9659C8B63

“April 24, 2003
Connecticut Postal Employees Claim Deception on Anthrax

When the United States Postal Service and state and federal health officials found evidence of anthrax spores on a machine in a postal distribution center here in 2001, they shut the machine down and decontaminated it. What they did not do was announce that the concentration of spores was the highest in the nation.

That failure upset workers at the center.

A federal report requested by Senator Joseph I. Lieberman released on Monday chronicled the discovery of the spores that led to the death of a 94-year-old woman from Oxford, Conn., in November 2001.

The report criticized the Postal Service and urged that steps be taken to prevent the withholding of such information, even though it acknowledged the challenges faced by the Postal Service in the days after Sept. 11.

Postal workers in Wallingford ”were lied to,” said John Dirzius, president of the American Postal Workers Union local, which represents two-thirds of the 1,200 people who work in the Wallingford center. ”It has destroyed the relationship between union and management.”

The Postal Service responded today that it was not the agency’s job to disseminate the information.

Letters containing anthrax spores killed five people in 2001, including the Oxford woman, Ottilie Lundgren; a Bronx woman, Kathy T. Nguyen; a Florida man; and two postal workers in a distribution center in the Brentwood neighborhood of Washington.

The Wallingford center was tested in November 2001, after the death of Ms. Lundgren. A month later, one of the samples, discovered in a mail sorting machine, contained three million anthrax spore colonies per half gram, the highest concentration among post offices in the nation, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In Brentwood, the anthrax count was 8,000 to 10,000 spores per gram. No spores have been found at the Wallingford center since 2001.

Postal managers told employees that there was a ”concentration” of spores in one machine, offered workers antibiotics and said they could transfer to other facilities if they so desired. Some took the antibiotics, but few of the 1,200 employees there accepted the relocation offer, Mr. Dirzius said. It took seven months for managers to respond to a request for a full report on the contamination, Mr. Dirzius said.

Today, postal workers here said they wanted an explanation.

”Why hasn’t somebody come to a podium saying, ‘We made the wrong call’?” said James Willard, a mechanic who has worked at the Wallingford center for eight years. ”The morale is down a lot and I don’t know if that will be bridged.”

Postal Service officials said today that it was the responsibility of health agencies to release medical information.

”On that score, we deliver mail,” said Gerry McKiernan, a Postal Service spokesman. ”We’re not medical experts. We took the advice the medical experts gave us at the time.”

But one of those experts, Dr. James Hadler, Connecticut’s chief epidemiologist, said the State Department of Public Health and the Centers for Disease Control had told postal managers that the information should be released. ….”

Sept 30, 2001
Rumsfeld, Ashcroft and Andy Card hit the Sunday talk show talk up a chemical,biological or nuclear attack by al Quaeda in the US and abroad, aided by “enemies of the United States.”

Rummy:

Mr. Rumsfeld said the Pentagon believed that several nations that support international terrorists have either developed or are trying to acquire chemical, biological or nuclear weapons, and that the dissemination of those weapons seemed a realistic concern.

”It doesn’t take a leap of imagination to expect that at some point those nations will work with those terrorist networks and assist them in achieving and obtaining those kinds of capabilities,” Mr. Rumsfeld said.

Ashcroft

Appearing on television, Attorney General John Ashcroft said the United States remained under threat of new attacks within its borders

Andy Card

”I’m not trying to be an alarmist,” Mr. Card said on ”Fox News Sunday,” ”but we know that these terrorist organizations, like Al Qaeda, run by Osama bin Laden and others, have probably found the means to use biological or chemical warfare.”

Yet there wasn’t any particular evidence or new intelligence to support their comments.

The remarks by the three senior officials on separate programs were not based on any new intelligence, their subordinates at the Justice Department, the Pentagon and the White House said later.

Oral Cipro would have to be taken for 18 weeks or so to confer immunity and there is no guarantee that would have any efficacy against pulmonary anthrax –that’s about as long as the items on Joker Jean Duley’s rapp sheet.

If ole Cheney was given Cipro (orally) on 9/11/01 and had been subjected to a lethal dose of powder fine enough to cause pulmonary anthrax on October 18 five weeks later that would not have done anything to keep him from needing IV Cipro and respiratory support after contracting pulmonary anthrax. So much for the “health care plan anthrax prevention plan” for the #2 executive in the U.S. Banana Republic government. Ditto the tip to “journalist” Richard Cohen. Taking Cipro shortly before the letters were mailed wouldn’t have done diddly squat to help him had he been exposed to fine particle anthrax letters.

Score points for stupidity for the FBI destroying the Ames anthrax.

Was Duley in on the happy hours the FBI hosted with idiot leaker facilitator Kelli Arena from CNN? Have Kelli Arena and Jean Duley been seen in the same room at the same time?

Great jobs by Glenn and Marcy in digging out so many details.

In fact, I know that people do this. Several of the drivers in a trucking company were caught stealing boxes of sudafed to sell to meth labs.

Some legislation-related dates, according to wikipedia:

October ??, 2001: PATRIOT Act of 2001 introduced in House

October 12, 2001: USA Act (HR 2975) passes in House

October ??, 2001: USA Act of 2002 (S 1510) introduced in Senate

October ??, 2001: Feingold amendments pass in Senate

October 23, 2001: Sensenbrenner introduces USA PATRIOT Act (HR 3162) in House, incorporating HR2975 + S1510 + HR3004 “Financial Anti-Terrorism Act”

October 23, 2001: Feingold vehemently opposed to USA PATRIOT Act, Leahy expresses reservations

October 24, 2001: House passes USA PATRIOT Act

October 25, 2001: Senate passes USA PATRIOT Act

October 26, 2001: Bush signs USA PATRIOT Act into law

Late January, 2003: Charles Lewis releases leaked draft “PATRIOT II” bill

July, 2005: USA PATRIOT and Terrorism Prevention Reauthorization Act of 2005 passes House & Senate

December 31, 2005: Sunset date for miscellaneous parts of USA PATRIOT Act

February, 2006: USA PATRIOT Act Additional Reauthorizing Amendments Act of 2006 passes House & Senate.

December 31, 2009: Sunset date for roving wiretaps (section 206) and access to business records under FISA (section 215) provisions of USA PATRIOT Act

Some more legislation-related dates in a DU forum, though I don’t know if the facts are any good or not.

Yep but I should have made myself clearer. Sudafed and other ephederines can make methametamine to be sure. State laws restricting pseudafed as a Schedule V narcotic do little to stop meth labs by restricting purchases for Joe Blow with a cold. It takes a large quantity of sympathomimetic amines to make a meth lab.

To get a meth lab up and running to make enough product for distribution you’re going to need to steal boxes, not get small packages of OTC sudafed from retail outlets and it would take a helluva lot of prescriptions of the 600-800 combination meds in which pseudoephererin was included ranging from about 4mg to 12.5 mg. per capsule as one of the ingredients for URI congestion symptoms.

Also now large companies like Pfizer and small companies have switched for a while to Sudafed PE since 2005 to prevent conversion to crystal meth, although plenty of regular psedoephederine is on shelves.

I was getting at this contraversial prosecution and frankly the total lack of success the feds and states have had in pushing Psuedafed’s classification as a Schedule V Narcotic that must be tracked in preventhing crystal meth manufacture from simple OTC sale of medications for symptoms of viral congestion.

Cultural Differences Complicate a Georgia Drug Sting Operation

ROME, Ga., July 29 - When they charged 49 convenience store clerks and owners in rural northwest Georgia with selling materials used to make methamphetamine, federal prosecutors declared that they had conclusive evidence. Hidden microphones and cameras, they said, had caught the workers acknowledging that the products would be used to make the drug.

But weeks of court motions have produced many questions. Forty-four of the defendants are Indian immigrants - 32, mostly unrelated, are named Patel - and many spoke little more than the kind of transactional English mocked in sitcoms.

So when a government informant told store clerks that he needed the cold medicine, matches and camping fuel to “finish up a cook,” some of them said they figured he must have meant something about barbecue.

The case of Operation Meth Merchant illustrates another difficulty for law enforcement officials fighting methamphetamine, a highly addictive drug that can be made with ordinary grocery store items.

Many states, including Georgia, have recently enacted laws restricting the sale of common cold medicines like Sudafed, and nationwide, the police are telling merchants to be suspicious of sales of charcoal, coffee filters, aluminum foil and Kitty Litter. Walgreens agreed this week to pay $1.3 million for failing to monitor the sale of over-the-counter cold medicine that was bought by a methamphetamine dealer in Texas.

But the case here is also complicated by culture. Prosecutors have had to drop charges against one defendant they misidentified, presuming that the Indian woman inside the store must be the same Indian woman whose name appeared on the registration for a van parked outside, and lawyers have gathered evidence arguing that another defendant is the wrong Patel.

The biggest problem, defense lawyers say, is the language barrier between an immigrant store clerk and the undercover informants who used drug slang or quick asides to convey that they were planning to make methamphetamine.

“They’re not really paying attention to what they’re being told,” said Steve Sadow, one of the lawyers. “Their business is: I ring it up, you leave, I’ve done my job. Call it language or idiom or culture, I’m not sure you’re able to show they know there’s anything wrong with what they’re doing.”

For the Indians, their lives largely limited to store and home, it is as if they have fallen through a looking glass into a world they were content to keep on the other side of the cash register.

“This is the first time I heard this - I don’t know how to pronounce - this meta-meta something,” said Hajira Ahmed, whose husband is in jail pending charges that he sold cold medicine and antifreeze at their convenience store on a winding road near the Tennessee border.

marcy, contact larisa, pronto:

An Anthrax tip…
To my colleagues in the press running around after the Anthrax story, I have gotten an interesting comment that could be a tip worth following. Let me be clear, I do not know who this is or if the person is using their real name or if any of the allegations are true. But I am also not investigating this story for an article as I am traveling for a different story at the moment. I have the commentators email and will share it with reputable journalists so long as there is an agreement that the person’s contact information remain private until you are able to get a release from him. Contact me at my RS account.

For those of you on this story, I think you should see if you can locate the person named and see if you can authenticate that it was them who posted the comment. If it pans out, then your next question to the FBI will be obvious (hint: the son):

##

I have been a close friend of Dr. Bruce Ivins for years. The FBI needed a scapegoat, especially after Stephen Hatfill, whose foot the FBI ran over, won a $5.2 M lawsuit against them.

The new FBI director needed a capture in this case. So, they took all of the Ft. Detrick anthrax researchers and put them under intense interrogation.

Bruce was a mild, meek and sensitive scientist. The FBI showed his clinically depressed daughter, who was institutionalized in a mental hospital, photos of the anthrax victims, and said “your father did this.” They offered his son $2.5 M and a sportscar if he would “rat” on his father.

Bruce could not stand stand up to the constant harrasment by the FBI. So we have lost a very talented researcher, so that the FBI can close the case…

Posted by:Dr. Gerry Higgins | August 04, 2008 at 07:02 AM

October 15, 2001: Daschle letter opened

November 16, 2001: Leahy letter discovered at State Dept. where it was misdelivered

December 6, 2001: Leahy letter opened in lab

You’re describing an operation that would be typical of the Soprano crew’s producers or a deal they would cut stealing boxes–I’m decrying the stupidity and lack of efficacy and time wasting of states requiring pharmacies to track the 800 or so meds that are OTC and some prescription that contain tiny amounts of pseudafed, and far and away most of that 2005 has been converted by manufacturers to a sympathomimetic decongesting amine that cannot be used to make crystal meth–phenyepherine.

The problem has become that if you have the sniffs and are not pushing on your doc to incorrectly and promiscously Rx an antibiotic which won’t impact a viral congestion and will make bugs more resistant in the community to those antibiotics, that drugs like phenyepherine are considerably less effective so the patient with symptoms is going to get a drug with less efficacy to help with their annoying wet handkerchief syndrome as they wait to get over their viral cold/URI.

Dates galore: Sun-Sentinel’s anthrax chronology, done in 2001.

Forgot that the Supreme Court has an anthrax scare too (October 27, 2001).

p.s. i googled this dr. gerry higgins, and there are several. the only one that seems viable for this post at larisa’s would be here:
http://www.hypercosm.com/compa.....ginsg.html
he has a MS in computer graphics from u of md. among other things of interest.
yet, why was he tooling around larisa’s site?

still, ya gotta wonder… worth looking in to.

All that I remember is that some WH staff members were taking Cipro weeks before the anthrax attacks. That always sounded fishy to me.

Might want to add:

On September 13th Woolsey wrote conflating 9/11 and Iraq. (OT I know, but watch how fast he conflates anthrax and Iraq). http://www.liberalisten.com/ww.....m/iraq.htm

On September 19th and 20th the PNAC folks had a meeting that resulted in a letter to Bush advocating attacking Iraq, which didn’t hit the MSM until October 12th. (Powell was not invited) http://web.archive.org/web/200.....letter.htm

On October 11th the FBI issued a terrorist alert.http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/101101.htm

On October 12th Cheney went on the News Hour and suggested that anthrax and Iraq might be related http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb.....10-12.html

On October 18th McCain went on Letterman to talk about anthrax and Saddam

On October 18th Woolsey wrote in the Wall Street Journal about “The Iraq Connection” http://www.opinionjournal.com/.....d=95001338

Woolsey’s trip to England (to establish a connection between the first World Trade Center bombing and Iraq) was paid for by then Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz. Woolsey was supposed to meet with Mullah Omar on Oct. 8, but we started bombing Afghanistan on October 7th and the meeting was called off. http://www.historycommons.org/.....es_woolsey

Pete, do you have a late-2001 date for the FBI destruction of the Ames anthrax culture collection?

It occurs to me that this new genetic test that the FBI is basing all the Ivins accusations on can’t be used as a test on the Ames cultures, since they no longer exist. Great big Hmmm there.

then there’s the money

Posted on Fri, Dec. 09, 2005
How a company cashed in on anthrax
BY BOB EVANS

Daily Press (Newport News, Va.)

NEWPORT NEWS, Va. - In a two-year span, the nation’s only licensed anthrax vaccine maker went from pleading poverty to announcing $100 million in acquisitions, including other pharmaceutical companies and a new manufacturing plant near Washington, D.C.

It’s a pattern that’s worked well for BioPort Corp.: Tell the Pentagon or Congress that it doesn’t have the money to keep going, negotiate a new deal, then count the extra cash rolling in.

Might want to add:

FBI issues terror alert Oct. 11 http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/101101.htm

October 12th Cheney was on the News Hour kind of conflating anthrax and Iraq.http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/terrorism/july-dec01/cheneya_10-12.html

October 15th Bush was conflating anthrax and Iraq

October 18th McCain was on Letterman conflating anthrax and Iraq

October 18th Woolsey was writing in the Wall Street Journal conflating anthrax and Iraq. Wolfowitz had paid for Woolsey’s trip to England (a fool’s errand to connect the first World Trade Center bombing with Iraq).
http://www.opinionjournal.com/.....d=95001338

Sorry,

I pressed the submit button and nothing appeared to happen. Sorry for the dups at 26, 35, and 38.

July 9, 2008: Duley alleges Ivins makes threat

Maybe “Ivins leaves threatening phone messages for Duley (per Duley’s July 24 complaint)” instead?

July 10, 2008: … Ivins … then … taken for psychiatric evaluation

Maybe “Ivins committed to Shepard Pratt psychiatric facility (per Duley July 24 complaint)” instead?

To add to your timeline

2007 — FBI agents first visit residents of the Ohio neighborhood where Ivins grew up. They tell Ivins’s former neighbors that they are conducting an insurance fraud investigation because Ivins “had faked his death.”

Source: Baltimore Sun, 08/03/08 “Hometown digging: Ivins old neighbors questioned in anthrax case”

Nice work, empty wheel.

march 19, 08: ‘unconscious man’ in ivins’ home; taken …where? hospital? why unconscious?

july 10: ivins hospitalized at shepard pratt psychiatric facility

July 16: ivins checked out

also, at some point prior to july 24, duley is informed ivins will be charged with ‘5 capital murders’ (yet the grand jury is not scheduled for her testimony until aug. 1??).

when did duley first see ivins and why? and how? how was that arranged? how did he get her name?

larisa has had conversation with duley’s boyfriend, and that is just beyond weird. she’s seeking privacy, for instance, but wants the press to know they’ll be shocked when they learn the truth.

i’m eager to know more about the timeline on ivins’ last few months. the interviews with colleagues i’ve seen just do not add up to the story that’s being pumped. could it be as stupidly simple - or as simply stupid - as the fbi latches on to ivins’ cleanup error??

i feel like animal house has taken over law enforcement in this country.

Since Israel is mentioned in the threat, it might be good to add some “foreign” Anthrax history to the timeline…

http://www.reuters.com/article.....SL15519684

http://www.israel21c.org/bin/e.....o=Articles^l4&enPage=BlankPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enVersion=0&enZone=Health

No, no, no this does not make sense.

There is no way in hell after pleading guilty to a DUI Duley would be allowed to keep her job doing a group. NO way. This makes no sense that she was allowed to do group under these circumstances. Technically she would be considered “impaired”. No way. That was her second DUI..they would do a substance abuse eval, likely would want her to attend out patient treatment at the least, and perhaps inpatient. Following that they would want her to go to a halfway house. While in a half way house herself, she would not be allowed to work in this field. You have to have at least a year of recovery in most treatment centers and demonstrate recovery. No way. They don’t allow substance abuse counselors to continue practicing while they are “in the disease”. YOu don’t jump in and out, without treatment. They don’t consider it recovery unless you go through a specific “set of hoops” usually including halfway house or continued outpatient.

Secondly, they had already searched Ivins house by the time the remark was made about the anthrax killer in court. That would suggest to me that he would have been considered a strong suspect. How the Mukasey/Leahy discussion make sense then? Now if they had begun to focus on him in maybe just a few weeks before that comment, it would be possible they were not aware. However, if they searched his home in November of 2007, they would have enough information to know if there was a strong suspect and what the evidence was. The statement seemed too strong to fit this scenario. In this scenario or at least the one the gov’t is blaring is “we were honing in on someone and were very closed to catching him.”

Doesn’t make sense.

Those were just two things that jumped out at me. Maybe I am wrong about how other states handle impaired therapists. We could look up MD law and find the licensure laws (since she had a substance abuse counseling license) and find out what the parameters are for active addiction. But in my state it would not have been allowed. IF she were a licensed mental health counselor she would perhaps be allowed to counsel with supervision on “other issues” but not addiction. Even in Domestic violence counseling a therapist or treater cannot work in d.v within one year of having a violent relationship. (as victim)

I am sure she would have been in need of money. Bachelor level therapists don’t make much at all. And legal fees and addiction treatment (which would have been required if she were to retain her job at all) would be very expensive.

Maybe I missed it, but other than Duley’s statements, has there actually been indication from anything that he had a substance issue?

Am I reading this correctly:
Duley pleds guilty to the DUI on 4/24/08.
She gets 2 yrs, but 1yr 9mos are suspended.
Does that mean she she served a 3 mo sentence which was what?? supervised probation???
Her sentence starts 4/17/2008 The 3 mos would be over with on 7/17/08 - a week after getting Ivins committed and a week before she gets the restraining order.

I don’t know if that information is available and I haven’t seen it yet. “Ames” for Ames Iowa, is really a misnomer, because what was labled an Ames strain and Glenn Greenwald and others refer to was actually manufactured in a lab in Texas but a container which understandably came from Ames Iowa caused the misnomer:

It was originally isolated at the Texas Veterinary Medical Diagnostics Laboratory at Texas A&M University. The Ames reference came from the label on the special container used to ship the sample in 1980. The USDA Veterinary Services Laboratory supplies hundreds of the containers to labs across the country and had supplied the container to Texas A&M. The containers are marked with the Ames lab’s address.

Ames anthrax famous, but strain from other state

I may have missed it, but given the FBI’s conduct in general, I doubt if they have revealed detailed information in dealing with other strains of Anthrax.

In the coming days and next couple weeks there are going to be so many pieces proferred for this puzzle that it’s going to be difficult to sort what’s legit and what’s not.

Whatever Israel has, like our vaccines, it still needs nearly a couple years to confer immunity and a booster. Whether they have more of that relative to their 7,283,000 population than the approximately 19.6% of long term vaccine for cutaneous anthrax. Neither country has anything proven to prophylax against the anthrax that is the deadly threat.

Chris - Link went to a info/search page, so no specific info on Duley (maybe cut and paste it if you still have it). Many jurisdictions have either statutes or non-statutory regulations that give 2 for 1 credit on jail sentences for non-violent offenders. As you are probably aware, in LA County, a person sentenced to 3 months might be out in 10 days. Can’t tell what happened in Frederick County to Duley without more info. I’ll say this (of course I’ve been saying it since the second Duley’s involvement was published), this chick is freaking nuts. There were all the obvious reasons not to make a spectacle of yourself in the notorious anthrax case, but on top of that, to do it while you are on probation for repetitive DWI convictions is simply mind boggling.

I’m very curious about how Ivins got put together with Duley in the first place. There’s nothing that makes it a good idea.

Working from Glenn’s unanswered questions, FBI consented to destruction of Ames samples in Oct 2001.

Here’s another of his timeline points that looks potentially appropriate to me:

- An anonymous letter to the FBI, in the latentcy period between the sending of the first anthrax letters and their being made public, that accused an Arab-American scientist formerly of the Ft. Detrick facility of being a potential bio-terrorist; the man had already been forced out of the Ft.D job by a group that seemed markedly anti-Arab.

An early attempt to try to establish a conveniently deflecting scapegoat? A politically useful one? Or maybe just an opportunity to keep making trouble for someone that the letter writer didn’t like?

bmaz,
in case this link does not work,
it is the
April 24, 2008 link in Marcy’s timeline

In many states so called “free lance addiction counselors” spring up leading groups in all kinds of settings. They aren’t really on the radar of medical or professional boards who license health care professionals, and they and their statements show up in courts all the time. Therefore they aren’t regulated, and few of them know what the hell they’re doing. Money for someone is usually a common denominator.

In one instance a sociopathic psychologist was making big bucks by peddling these people to all kinds of groups who used them and paid for them including US Probation who charged probationers who were conscripted to go to weekly meetings $5 a pop. They were often billed as “therapists” but many of them were social workers who had no experience with addiction other than their own addictions.

Also involved in one situation were a large group of osteopathic psychiatrists who had not been able to pass the ABPN board exam after taking it multiple times. When confronted with this situation, they disappeared.

They don’t necessarily register with any licensing facility as to their “free lancing” and the Administrative Office of Courts i.e. federal probation has been caught using these clowns with some very embarassing consequences (screwing patients for one) and many of them haven’t kicked their addictions themselves. I’ve seen them used to threaten people as well until AOC’s bluff was called when it’s been called to the attention of a federal judge or the legitmate licensure boards which can be effective in stopping them in their tracks. I’m not sure what the hell this Jean Duley was besides a frequenlty drinking driver. Descriptions of her and her antics sure smack of the many so-called therapists who are free lancing as “addiction counselors.”

For that matter I have seen plenty of scandals in so-called legitmate psychiatric hospitals come and go in the last several years and the vast majority of them have involved greedy fraudulent billing by large corporations and some shrinks who happened to be caught. Some of them were prosecuted successfully, and often there were consent agreements signed by the corporations with large fines and refunds. Maybe a few of them are involved in Mukasey DOJ’s new vogue of DPAs or Deferred Prosecution Agreements.

Although this “Jean Duley’s” participation in this story seems bizarre, she is symptomatic and not surprising of the shit quality that the government often gets when they are deploying physicians who work for them in the capacity Dixon seemes to have been/or not–maybe she was independent of the gov but they seemed to be listening to her to some extent. This is a far cry from the many hard working and talented people doing research for the gov at places like the CDC or the NIH and possibly at research facilities like the ones where Dr. Ivins was.

Out of fairness to Ivins and for so called “homeland” security this story needs to be told. It appears every day as if there may have been gross compromises to this investigation and national security by Bush and Cheney and their administration. The story that Mueller was leaned on by Bush to implicated AQ and commplied and some of the theories floated by Gerald Posner on KO night after night may unfortunately turn out to be true.

I might add on more than one ocassion, I’ve seen DOJ call witnesses who were supposed to be credentialed and an exmaination of their credentials and their background made the AUSA damn sorry that they didn’t perform due dilligence. I don’t know if it’s in the government water or not but it sure seems to be a trend that is not infrequent. I’ve also seen them called to testify about a patient that they never actually examined by DOJsters–welcome to the Bananna Republic of the USA. They were subsequently flayed on cross and it cost the government in each case.

The FBI didn’t destroy the Ames anthrax culture collection or anything of the kind.

What happened was that the Daschle letter anthrax was used up or rendered useless for further testing by the lab people that they had testing it (not at Ft. Detrick).

The Leahy letter wasn’t found until mid-November, and the delay in testing it was at least partly due to the debacle of the Daschle sample tests — they gathered scientists to advise them on a protocol to maximize information and minimize damage to the Leahy sample, and also to develop a protocol for handling of samples from other labs handling the Ames strain so that anything learned could stand up as evidence.

Can’t say it enough: the Chemical & Engineering News overview from December 2006 is a valuable grounding.

Yeah, maybe somebody made a little deal with Jean Duley.
Maybe she did some favors for them and she got something in return.
She might have been kindof needy.

Using public records databases, I find another name linked with hers- Jean C Duley Wittman.
Searching in the MD judicial case search database
I found a Jean Wittman who got divorced in 3/99.
In 9/99, she had a bankruptcy case. Looks like she couldn’t pay a $1080.73 bill to Frederick Memorial Hospital.

Also of interest is the name Robin L Duley who is also linked to Jean C Duley. Robin has a couple of mentions in the MD judicial case database- the most recent is for possession of marijuana. Earlier ones are complaints about threatening phone call, what looks like a paternity claim and some money troubles with her condo.

Jean C Duley is probably around 45 yrs old, Robin is almost 39- so they are probably only related as in-laws.
For the record, Jean’s husband William A Duley does not have any entries other than the ones related to his divorce and the mutual battery charges. I thought it was interesting that he charged her with battery before she also filed a battery charge against him.

I’m sorry. Glenn Greenwald puts it as 10/01 in one of his two very detailed articles.

Journalists, their lying sources, and the anthrax investigation

Why did the FBI gives its consent in October, 2001 for the remaining samples of the Ames anthrax strain to be destroyed, thereby losing crucial “genetic clues valuable to the criminal inquiry”? [San Francisco Chronicle, 11/9/2001];

Glenn’s source is:

San Francisco Gate: Anthrax probe hampered by FBI blunders
Agents unprepared for complexities of case

I could certainly be wrong, I’m just scooping up sources and reporting them. Can you quote what part of your source says there was no destruction? Many other sources say that there was.

The FBI didn’t destroy the Ames anthrax culture collection or anything of the kind.

Well, I’ll give you an “A” for being adamant, but how do you know that the FBI did nothing of the kind because I’m prepared on the basis of what is establish fact to make quite a list of the keystone cop stupid blunders that the FBI has made in this case and some of it spent my fucking tax money. I’d be the first to applaud Hatfill having a few million to live on, since they made Dr. Hatfill damn near unemployable because that’s the way frightened people behave despite the fact that he lied about his resume in a surrealistic list of degrees that only a board certified moron would buy. They put him through hell and they used leaks and inuendo that wasn’t substantiated to do that.

So I’d appreciate knowing how you know what was destroyed in Iowa, Texas, or any labs where anthrax is used for research.

You may be correct Nell but how do you know thisI’ve learned not to believe everything I read in a newspaper, however from this article that Glenn G. has relied heavily upon:

SF Gate: Anthrax probe hampered by FBI blunders
Agents unprepared for complexities of case

Still, many experts — including some on whom the FBI has relied — said the anthrax investigation has taken some wrong turns.

To wit:

– Several weeks ago, the FBI said it had no objection to the destruction of a collection of anthrax samples at Iowa State University. But some scientists involved in the investigation now say that collection may have contained genetic clues valuable to the criminal inquiry.

– Criminal investigators have not visited many of the companies, laboratories and academic institutions with the equipment or capability to make the kind of highly potent anthrax sent in a letter to Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle. At places they have conducted interviews, the investigators often seemed to ask general questions unlikely to elicit new evidence, several lab directors said.

– And just this week, more than a month after the first death from inhalation anthrax, the FBI issued a subpoena asking laboratories for the names of all workers and researchers who have been vaccinated against anthrax. Meanwhile, the FBI is only now establishing electronic bulletin boards to allow members of scientific groups to interact with criminal investigators.

“The bureau was caught almost as unaware and unprepared as the public was for these events,” said Bill Tobin, a former forensic metallurgist who worked for the FBI’s crime lab in Washington. “It’s just unrealistic to ask 7,000 agents to overnight become sufficiently knowledgeable about bioterrorist agents and possible means of theft of those items.”

SAMPLES DESTROYED
Last month, after consulting with the FBI, Iowa State University in Ames destroyed anthrax spores collected over more than seven decades and kept in more than 100 vials. A variant of the so-called Ames strain had been implicated in the death of a Florida man from inhalational anthrax, and the university was nervous about security.

But scientists in and out of government say the rush to destroy the spores may have eliminated crucial evidence about the anthrax in the letters sent to Congress and the media.

If the mystery of its origins could have been solved, scientists might have been able to track the germ’s distribution over the years. And that, in turn, might have given investigators important clues to the killer’s identity.

The FBI says it never explicitly approved nor objected to the destruction of the cultures.

“We didn’t recommend one way or another whether they should destroy it,” said Larry Holmquist, a spokesman for the FBI in Omaha, Neb., which runs the bureau’s Iowa operations. “But we did say it had no evidentiary basis.”

what does anyone know about Lt. Col. Philip Zack in connection to all of this???

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/.....09018.html

Thanks. It would be good to get a more precise date there if anyone has one.

Ah, mea culpa on re-reading — the sources say the FBI authorized the destruction of the culture samples, not that they actually did the destruction. That was imprecise of me, and I apologize.

That there are a number of google and other search engine hits alleging he stole anthrax and that the spotlight isn’t on him:

The Times Of London
August 09, 2005
Saddam’s germ war plot is traced back to one Oxford cow
By Dominic Kennedy

A BRITISH cow that died in an Oxfordshire field in 1937 has emerged as the source of Saddam Hussain’s “weapons of mass destruction” programme that led to the Iraq war.

An ear from the cow was sent to an English laboratory, where scientists discovered anthrax spores that were later used in secret biological warfare tests by Winston Churchill.

The culture was sent to the United States, which exported samples to Iraq during Saddam’s war against Iran in the 1980s. Inspectors have found that this batch of anthrax was the dictator’s choice in his attempts to create biological weapons.

This report is weird. How does the sentence start 7 (April 17) days before she is sentenced (April 24)?? The only way I am familiar with this occurring is when the defendant is in custody prior to sentencing, but I see no evidence of that here. Also, the entire fine of $500 seems to have been suspended. I wonder if her only sentence was to 2 years probation (i.e. no incarceration) with all but 3 months suspended? Still doesn’t explain how it starts before she was sentenced. Weird docket info…

October 18, 2001: McCain, on Letterman, links anthrax to Saddam Hussein and refers to “Phase Two” of America’s war on terror.

And, I would have to say, if that is true, it is an awful light sentence for a repeat DWI offender within a 24 month period

Some sources say it was destroyed inclluding the SF Gate article who says they contacted the lab that held them so I guess it gets down to whih sources are right.

Ames Antrhax spores and other batches destroyed–the google

NYT: Geographic Gaffe Misguides Anthrax Inquiry

This raises a possible public health concern and increases the possibility that last fall’s bioterrorist could have simply dug anthrax out of the dirt in Texas.

”We isolate a lot of anthrax here,” said Lelve G. Gayle, director of the Texas Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Laboratory in College Station. He said the Ames strain now appeared to be widely scattered in natural settings. It was found in a dead goat on a Texas ranch in 1997.

The new history of Ames, some of which was reported yesterday in The Washington Post, is being investigated by the F.B.I. along with the National Intelligence Council, which does federal threat assessments, and the Central Intelligence Agency.

Some of the NYT articles during 2002 were co-written by Judy Miller–some not.

Ames Batches Destroyed says SF Gate

Last month, after consulting with the FBI, Iowa State University in Ames destroyed anthrax spores collected over more than seven decades and kept in more than 100 vials. A variant of the so-called Ames strain had been implicated in the death of a Florida man from inhalational anthrax, and the university was nervous about security.

But scientists in and out of government say the rush to destroy the spores may have eliminated crucial evidence about the anthrax in the letters sent to Congress and the media.

If the mystery of its origins could have been solved, scientists might have been able to track the germ’s distribution over the years. And that, in turn, might have given investigators important clues to the killer’s identity.

The FBI says it never explicitly approved nor objected to the destruction of the cultures.

“We didn’t recommend one way or another whether they should destroy it,” said Larry Holmquist, a spokesman for the FBI in Omaha, Neb., which runs the bureau’s Iowa operations. “But we did say it had no evidentiary basis.”

I’m going to hope and presume that SF Gate contacted the labs at Iowa and that’s what they told them. It wouldn’t be the first time DOJ has destroyed evidence and said it wasn’t relevant for the defense bar, or for them after they destroyed it. That happens all too frequently.

Holy crap, new NYT story up.

But the investigators found some personal quirks, according to law enforcement officials and people who knew the scientist well. They found that Dr. Ivins, who had a history of alcohol abuse, had for years maintained a post office box under an assumed name that he used to receive pornographic pictures of blindfolded women.

Years ago, he had visited Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority houses at universities in Maryland, Virginia and West Virginia, an obsession growing out of a romance with a sorority sister in his own college days at the University of Cincinnati — although someone who knew him well said the last such visit was in 1981.

…

They had even intensively questioned his adopted children, Andrew and Amanda, now both 24, with the authorities telling his son that he might be able to collect the $2.5 million reward for solving the case and buy a sports car, and showing his daughter gruesome photographs of victims of the anthrax letters and telling her, “Your father did this,” according to the account Dr. Ivins gave a close friend.

As the investigation wore on, some colleagues thought the F.B.I.’s methods were increasingly coercive, as the agency tried to turn Army scientists against one another and reinterviewed family members.

One former colleague, Dr. W. Russell Byrne, said the agents pressed Dr. Ivins’s daughter repeatedly to acknowledge that her father was involved in the attacks.

“It was not an interview,” Dr. Byrne said. “It was a frank attempt at intimidation.”

Dr. Byrne said he believed Dr. Ivins was singled out partly because of his personal weaknesses. “They figured he was the weakest link,” Dr. Byrne said. “If they had real evidence on him, why did they not just arrest him?”