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	<title>Comments on: Fitzgerald Learned Rove Was Trying to Fire Him in 2005&#8211;While Rove Was Still Under Investigation</title>
	<atom:link href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/</link>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-87908</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 23:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/#comment-87908</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;University of Buffalo might want to think about who Edwards is going to debate now…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/384676.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/384676.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sept. 26th. Man, that’s a long time to have to wait.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Or, maybe they could move up the date. Wouldn’t be kosher to have KKKarl hauled off the stage by police in the middle of the debate.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Woo hoo! Debate on!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>University of Buffalo might want to think about who Edwards is going to debate now…</p>
<p><a href="http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/384676.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/384676.html</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Sept. 26th. Man, that’s a long time to have to wait.</p>
<p>Or, maybe they could move up the date. Wouldn’t be kosher to have KKKarl hauled off the stage by police in the middle of the debate.</p>
<p>Woo hoo! Debate on!</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-87877</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/#comment-87877</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The bit that offends you as to ability to “cure” the problem applies historically only to perjury, not false statements.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Precisely.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The bit that offends you as to ability to “cure” the problem applies historically only to perjury, not false statements.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Precisely.</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-87866</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/#comment-87866</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No clue about the Meet the Bloggers deal, haven’t looked at it yet.  As to the other, there are separate charges, different crimes, between lying to a Federal officer (false statements) and perjury.  Perjury requires both inconsistent statements to be under oath effectively; false statements does not.  That is an overly simplistic description, but sufficient.  The bit that offends you as to ability to “cure” the problem applies historically only to perjury, not false statements.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No clue about the Meet the Bloggers deal, haven’t looked at it yet.  As to the other, there are separate charges, different crimes, between lying to a Federal officer (false statements) and perjury.  Perjury requires both inconsistent statements to be under oath effectively; false statements does not.  That is an overly simplistic description, but sufficient.  The bit that offends you as to ability to “cure” the problem applies historically only to perjury, not false statements.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-87842</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/#comment-87842</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;but that by whipping out that take he managed to not only get himself off the charging hook for the underlying crime(s), &lt;strong&gt;but also somehow simultaneously undercut Fitz’s perception of strength as to false statements charges&lt;/strong&gt;. There is an old, and originally common law based, principle as to perjury about ability to cure the perjury if you do so before the matter has exited the grand jury. That doesn’t really apply to false statements to federal officers charges though, and those are the ones that I have always focused on as to Rove.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Well, here’s a situation where your expertise in criminal law is so far beyond my own knowledge that I don’t actually understand the parts that I’ve bolded in this passage.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, basically Rove could lie his ass off (and delay things) as long as the GJ was being held?  And then as long as he came clean at the last moment, he was still legally off the hook?   (Sounds like a technicality that makes my blood boil; do I correctly understand you  here?)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;However, even if he’s ‘off the hook’ for lying to the GJ, he’s still ‘on the hook’ for lying to the FBI, correct?  And if that’s the case, then why wasn’t he changed for that…?  Does he ALSO get a free hall pass if he corrects what he told the FBI?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also, I can’t see any live video over at “Meet the Bloggers”… am I missing something?  Or will they wait until the show is over to post streaming video…? (I thought they were going to stream it live, but I don’t get a signal… maybe it’s a Safari issue…?)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>but that by whipping out that take he managed to not only get himself off the charging hook for the underlying crime(s), <strong>but also somehow simultaneously undercut Fitz’s perception of strength as to false statements charges</strong>. There is an old, and originally common law based, principle as to perjury about ability to cure the perjury if you do so before the matter has exited the grand jury. That doesn’t really apply to false statements to federal officers charges though, and those are the ones that I have always focused on as to Rove.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Well, here’s a situation where your expertise in criminal law is so far beyond my own knowledge that I don’t actually understand the parts that I’ve bolded in this passage.</p>
<p>So, basically Rove could lie his ass off (and delay things) as long as the GJ was being held?  And then as long as he came clean at the last moment, he was still legally off the hook?   (Sounds like a technicality that makes my blood boil; do I correctly understand you  here?)</p>
<p>However, even if he’s ‘off the hook’ for lying to the GJ, he’s still ‘on the hook’ for lying to the FBI, correct?  And if that’s the case, then why wasn’t he changed for that…?  Does he ALSO get a free hall pass if he corrects what he told the FBI?</p>
<p>Also, I can’t see any live video over at “Meet the Bloggers”… am I missing something?  Or will they wait until the show is over to post streaming video…? (I thought they were going to stream it live, but I don’t get a signal… maybe it’s a Safari issue…?)</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-87839</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/#comment-87839</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah, but the curious thing is that not just did he wait until then to roll with that take, (I think calling it “coming clean” is a wild mischaracterization); but that by whipping out that take he managed to not only get himself off the charging hook for the underlying crime(s), but also somehow simultaneously undercut Fitz’s perception of strength as to false statements charges.  There is an old, and originally common law based, principle as to perjury about ability to cure the perjury if you do so before the matter has exited the grand jury.  That doesn’t really apply to false statements to federal officers charges though, and those are the ones that I have always focused on as to Rove.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, but the curious thing is that not just did he wait until then to roll with that take, (I think calling it “coming clean” is a wild mischaracterization); but that by whipping out that take he managed to not only get himself off the charging hook for the underlying crime(s), but also somehow simultaneously undercut Fitz’s perception of strength as to false statements charges.  There is an old, and originally common law based, principle as to perjury about ability to cure the perjury if you do so before the matter has exited the grand jury.  That doesn’t really apply to false statements to federal officers charges though, and those are the ones that I have always focused on as to Rove.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-87835</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/#comment-87835</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m 92% certain that Armitage told the FBI in Oct 2003 about his comment to Woodward.  Whereas Rove continues to use the claim that “Armitage said it first,” as a way to confuse the facts that: (1) Rove denied leaking the name, (2) Rove didn’t come clean until Luskin heard from Viveca Novak that Rove was a source.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think it’s more likely to do with whatever VIveca Novak said to Luskin.&lt;br /&gt;
Until that point, Rove continued to claim he was innocent.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m 92% certain that Armitage told the FBI in Oct 2003 about his comment to Woodward.  Whereas Rove continues to use the claim that “Armitage said it first,” as a way to confuse the facts that: (1) Rove denied leaking the name, (2) Rove didn’t come clean until Luskin heard from Viveca Novak that Rove was a source.</p>
<p>I think it’s more likely to do with whatever VIveca Novak said to Luskin.<br />
Until that point, Rove continued to claim he was innocent.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-87834</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/#comment-87834</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My @66 was intended as response to PJEvans @31.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My @66 was intended as response to PJEvans @31.</p>
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		<title>By: readerOfTeaLeaves</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-87832</link>
		<dc:creator>readerOfTeaLeaves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/#comment-87832</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;;-))))))&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(I’ve been wondering whether all the new features and new readers are making the existing squirrels pretty darn tired.  But I figure as long as the servers are getting one hell of a workout, that means lots of activity at FDL group.  Which is so great.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m going to be chuckling all morning over my vision of tired squirrels racing around the server cluster ;-))&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>;-))))))</p>
<p>(I’ve been wondering whether all the new features and new readers are making the existing squirrels pretty darn tired.  But I figure as long as the servers are getting one hell of a workout, that means lots of activity at FDL group.  Which is so great.)</p>
<p>I’m going to be chuckling all morning over my vision of tired squirrels racing around the server cluster ;-))</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-87817</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/#comment-87817</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Walton had no jurisdiction nor authority to appoint as you suggest.  And Fitzgerald was specially appointed by Comey, who was no longer there in that position to do anything else.  Gonzales was AG at that point; Fitz himself would have never been appointed under those conditions, much less another special prosecutor to go after Rove.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Folks, I have been tough on Fitz in the past because I thought he should have charged Rove at the time he charged Libby (still do, but whoever upthread said the case against Rove was stronger that Libby is nuts, it most certainly was not, but I think it was viable from what I have seen); but this piling on Fitz because of this report by Marcy is just flat out ill taken.  Fitzgerald himself couldn’t do squat about this, and the structure in the AG/DOJ would have been chomping at the bit to shut Fitz down altogether if he made the wrong move.  You really have to consider the larger dynamics of the deal.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walton had no jurisdiction nor authority to appoint as you suggest.  And Fitzgerald was specially appointed by Comey, who was no longer there in that position to do anything else.  Gonzales was AG at that point; Fitz himself would have never been appointed under those conditions, much less another special prosecutor to go after Rove.</p>
<p>Folks, I have been tough on Fitz in the past because I thought he should have charged Rove at the time he charged Libby (still do, but whoever upthread said the case against Rove was stronger that Libby is nuts, it most certainly was not, but I think it was viable from what I have seen); but this piling on Fitz because of this report by Marcy is just flat out ill taken.  Fitzgerald himself couldn’t do squat about this, and the structure in the AG/DOJ would have been chomping at the bit to shut Fitz down altogether if he made the wrong move.  You really have to consider the larger dynamics of the deal.</p>
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		<title>By: brendanx</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-87810</link>
		<dc:creator>brendanx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/17/fitzgerald-learned-rove-was-trying-to-fire-him-in-2005-while-rove-was-still-under-investigation/#comment-87810</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;emptywheel:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Remember back in June, when Fitzgerald publicly suggested he had more details to share with Congress about Rove’s efforts to get him fired? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The link here is to the wrong post.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>emptywheel:</p>
<blockquote><p>Remember back in June, when Fitzgerald publicly suggested he had more details to share with Congress about Rove’s efforts to get him fired? </p>
</blockquote>
<p>The link here is to the wrong post.</p>
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