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	<title>Comments on: Helgerson and Cheney</title>
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	<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/</link>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/comment-page-1/#comment-86811</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/#comment-86811</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Cheney’s bullying of the CIA IG — again, activity for which there is no precedent, meaning that Bush allowed Cheney to run rampant wherever his nose takes him — would be consistent with Addington’s effective control over who staffed OLC, shutting down potential, program-threatening criticism and, in fact, obtaining a few forged hall passes.  At least until the bump in the road from the Comey-Ashcroft hospital drama.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It seems that Cheney was unable simply to replace that IG’s senior staff with more malleable personalities.  Perhaps the pods don’t grow as well in McLean as they do in Foggy Bottom, or CIA’ers don’t sleep as much.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And those demmed elusive bureaucrats and their pesky rules about the “independence” of IG’s and about protecting employees from political retribution for doing their jobs.  As if their job was to do anything but protect the Usurper-in-Chief’s short, ample backside as he waddles through government with a pitchfork.  Little wonder that high on Cheney’s list, once forming DHS couldn’t be avoided, was to prohit its employees from being union members.  Creative destruction without the “creative” part.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheney’s bullying of the CIA IG — again, activity for which there is no precedent, meaning that Bush allowed Cheney to run rampant wherever his nose takes him — would be consistent with Addington’s effective control over who staffed OLC, shutting down potential, program-threatening criticism and, in fact, obtaining a few forged hall passes.  At least until the bump in the road from the Comey-Ashcroft hospital drama.</p>
<p>It seems that Cheney was unable simply to replace that IG’s senior staff with more malleable personalities.  Perhaps the pods don’t grow as well in McLean as they do in Foggy Bottom, or CIA’ers don’t sleep as much.  </p>
<p>And those demmed elusive bureaucrats and their pesky rules about the “independence” of IG’s and about protecting employees from political retribution for doing their jobs.  As if their job was to do anything but protect the Usurper-in-Chief’s short, ample backside as he waddles through government with a pitchfork.  Little wonder that high on Cheney’s list, once forming DHS couldn’t be avoided, was to prohit its employees from being union members.  Creative destruction without the “creative” part.</p>
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		<title>By: george7</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/comment-page-1/#comment-86800</link>
		<dc:creator>george7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/#comment-86800</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In &lt;em&gt;Torture Team&lt;/em&gt; Philippe Sands has a good general discussion of the role played by Feith.   He stresses that Feith was crucial in rejecting applicability of the Geneva Conventions for “unlawful combatants.”  No word about his visiting Guantanamo.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In <em>Torture Team</em> Philippe Sands has a good general discussion of the role played by Feith.   He stresses that Feith was crucial in rejecting applicability of the Geneva Conventions for “unlawful combatants.”  No word about his visiting Guantanamo.</p>
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		<title>By: WilliamOckham</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/comment-page-1/#comment-86784</link>
		<dc:creator>WilliamOckham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/#comment-86784</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;ew,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m going to have go do a conf. call (and I hope I get done before the Levin chat starts), but I’ve got a question about the Helgerson investigation. The timeline I’ve seen is that it was started in January 2003 and the draft finished by May 2004. However, I’ve analyzed the Vaughn index that the CIA produced for the ACLU’s FOIA request and the earliest document I can find that references the OIG investigation directly is dated 12/2/2003 (an interview report). There are only 4 documents listed that are clearly contemporaneous references to the OIG investigation that are dated before the draft’s release. There are many documents related to the OIG investigation after that date. Why is that?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ew,</p>
<p>I’m going to have go do a conf. call (and I hope I get done before the Levin chat starts), but I’ve got a question about the Helgerson investigation. The timeline I’ve seen is that it was started in January 2003 and the draft finished by May 2004. However, I’ve analyzed the Vaughn index that the CIA produced for the ACLU’s FOIA request and the earliest document I can find that references the OIG investigation directly is dated 12/2/2003 (an interview report). There are only 4 documents listed that are clearly contemporaneous references to the OIG investigation that are dated before the draft’s release. There are many documents related to the OIG investigation after that date. Why is that?</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/comment-page-1/#comment-86782</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/#comment-86782</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You took the thought right out of my head and posted!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think I would haul Comey back in…to TALK…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You took the thought right out of my head and posted!</p>
<p>I think I would haul Comey back in…to TALK…</p>
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		<title>By: emptywheel</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/comment-page-1/#comment-86780</link>
		<dc:creator>emptywheel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/#comment-86780</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You know, it sure makes it look like Comey resigned because he couldn’t get BushCo to withdraw the new Bradbury memos, huh?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, it sure makes it look like Comey resigned because he couldn’t get BushCo to withdraw the new Bradbury memos, huh?</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/comment-page-1/#comment-86779</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/#comment-86779</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Marcy upstairs&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marcy upstairs</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/comment-page-1/#comment-86777</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/#comment-86777</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“chit chatted” on the torture program&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“chit chatted” on the torture program</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/comment-page-1/#comment-86776</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/#comment-86776</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jesus Mary and Joseph the Repugs are all ready trying to put up road blocks.  What do they need a bj to investigate?  Enough&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus Mary and Joseph the Repugs are all ready trying to put up road blocks.  What do they need a bj to investigate?  Enough</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/comment-page-1/#comment-86775</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/#comment-86775</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think it’s interesting to put up the fact that there were deaths, homicides, side by side with the finding of “no torture.”  What bizarre semantics are involved there?  So torture is when you cause death or organ failure, and according to Priest they expose a very young detainee to stress positions and hypothermia until he dies - - but no torture is involved?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Apparently Mayer says the report was described to her as being the size of two Manhatten phone books and she also says that Comey and Gonzales chit chatted on the torture programs (I wonder if that was before or after Clement made his representations to the Sup Ct that we do not torture?) and Gonzales admitted to Comey that the programs were torture but that they had to have them bc Cheney wanted them.   I’m not even going to start with all the places that should have taken things, once upon a time in a world where the DOJ had not thoroughly propagandized the American public into acceptance of Executive depravity as not only necessary, but somehow honorable.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And everyone in the upper echelons was filled in, way back in 2002, that GITMO was home to a slew of Article 49 war crimes and to people who were not involved in any way with terrorism (and if GITMO was home to them, then all the other holding facilities and Pakistani tipoffs, etc. likely had their own shares) and that we were just torturing them all, anyway, and keeping them completely disappeared for years at GITMO, all to make Bush look good.  They all knew it.  We knew they did, but now finding out specifically that Dr. Nakhleh specifically passed on the info in 2002, just hits you in the face one more time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now put those Sup Ct appearances by Clement, and Comey’s Padilla press conf and Arar affidavits, and Gonzales and Ashcrofts protestations on torture, in their proper context. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Mayer touches on how Radack was forced out and victimized for outing the lies to the court and destruction of evidence that DOJ  has now made SOP (and walks the files that ended up with missing info back to Alice Fisher).  And Chertoff certainly managed to keep his presence on that torture field trip to GITMO where so many earned their BS badges, secret for a long time, but not so much now.  And it sounds like Mayers sources put Chertoff directly in on some of the torture program discussions.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;THe Canadian documents show Khadr was in the “Frequent Flyer” (moved every 3 hours, nonstop, for sleep deprivation) aka Operation Sandman, for THREE WEEKS, but just when you get your head around that, it now looks like Hamdan was in it for 50 days.  All the people with no charges who aren’t having anyone get access to their files - who knows?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And the men and women who were supposed to lead have so completely and thoroughly destroyed our justice system that nothing will ever happen.  It’s hard to know which hurts more, the fact that depraved sychophants have so much power in our government, or the fact that those who knew better and could have been leaders chose milquetoast as their breakfast of champions.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it’s interesting to put up the fact that there were deaths, homicides, side by side with the finding of “no torture.”  What bizarre semantics are involved there?  So torture is when you cause death or organ failure, and according to Priest they expose a very young detainee to stress positions and hypothermia until he dies &#8211; - but no torture is involved?</p>
<p>Apparently Mayer says the report was described to her as being the size of two Manhatten phone books and she also says that Comey and Gonzales chit chatted on the torture programs (I wonder if that was before or after Clement made his representations to the Sup Ct that we do not torture?) and Gonzales admitted to Comey that the programs were torture but that they had to have them bc Cheney wanted them.   I’m not even going to start with all the places that should have taken things, once upon a time in a world where the DOJ had not thoroughly propagandized the American public into acceptance of Executive depravity as not only necessary, but somehow honorable.  </p>
<p>And everyone in the upper echelons was filled in, way back in 2002, that GITMO was home to a slew of Article 49 war crimes and to people who were not involved in any way with terrorism (and if GITMO was home to them, then all the other holding facilities and Pakistani tipoffs, etc. likely had their own shares) and that we were just torturing them all, anyway, and keeping them completely disappeared for years at GITMO, all to make Bush look good.  They all knew it.  We knew they did, but now finding out specifically that Dr. Nakhleh specifically passed on the info in 2002, just hits you in the face one more time.</p>
<p>Now put those Sup Ct appearances by Clement, and Comey’s Padilla press conf and Arar affidavits, and Gonzales and Ashcrofts protestations on torture, in their proper context. </p>
<p>Mayer touches on how Radack was forced out and victimized for outing the lies to the court and destruction of evidence that DOJ  has now made SOP (and walks the files that ended up with missing info back to Alice Fisher).  And Chertoff certainly managed to keep his presence on that torture field trip to GITMO where so many earned their BS badges, secret for a long time, but not so much now.  And it sounds like Mayers sources put Chertoff directly in on some of the torture program discussions.   </p>
<p>THe Canadian documents show Khadr was in the “Frequent Flyer” (moved every 3 hours, nonstop, for sleep deprivation) aka Operation Sandman, for THREE WEEKS, but just when you get your head around that, it now looks like Hamdan was in it for 50 days.  All the people with no charges who aren’t having anyone get access to their files &#8211; who knows?  </p>
<p>And the men and women who were supposed to lead have so completely and thoroughly destroyed our justice system that nothing will ever happen.  It’s hard to know which hurts more, the fact that depraved sychophants have so much power in our government, or the fact that those who knew better and could have been leaders chose milquetoast as their breakfast of champions.</p>
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		<title>By: Leen</title>
		<link>http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/comment-page-1/#comment-86774</link>
		<dc:creator>Leen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:11:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/15/helgerson-and-cheney/#comment-86774</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Uh Oh the pink folk getting a lecture&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh Oh the pink folk getting a lecture</p>
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