Comments on: Dean and Bush and Pardons http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/ Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:59:20 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Cheryl http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/comment-page-1/#comment-83834 Cheryl Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:08:56 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/#comment-83834 <p>Could it have something to do with the “Military Commissions Act of 2006 PUBLIC LAW 109–366—OCT. 17, 2006?”</p> <p>I looked at the Youtube and could only find this bill when searching the Senate.</p> <p>Page 38 of the pdf of the bill does have:</p> <p>…</p> <p>1005(e)(1) of Public Law 109–148 (119 Stat. 2742) and the subsection<br /> (e) added by added by section 1405(e)(1) of Public Law<br /> 109–163 (119 Stat. 3477) and inserting the following new subsection<br /> (e):<br /> ‘‘(e)(1) No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to<br /> hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed<br /> by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who<br /> has been determined by the United States to have been properly<br /> detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.<br /> ‘‘(2) Except as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3) of section<br /> 1005(e) of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 (10 U.S.C. 801<br /> note), no court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear<br /> or consider any other action against the United States or its agents<br /> relating to any aspect of the detention, transfer, treatment, trial,<br /> or conditions of confinement of an alien who is or was detained<br /> by the United States and has been determined by the United<br /> States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant<br /> or is awaiting such determination.’’.</p> <p>…</p> <p>Sorry for the long answer. I didn’t read the entire bill so the Cafferty show on Youtube could be right. Interesting…</p> Could it have something to do with the “Military Commissions Act of 2006 PUBLIC LAW 109–366—OCT. 17, 2006?”

I looked at the Youtube and could only find this bill when searching the Senate.

Page 38 of the pdf of the bill does have:

…

1005(e)(1) of Public Law 109–148 (119 Stat. 2742) and the subsection
(e) added by added by section 1405(e)(1) of Public Law
109–163 (119 Stat. 3477) and inserting the following new subsection
(e):
‘‘(e)(1) No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to
hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed
by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who
has been determined by the United States to have been properly
detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.
‘‘(2) Except as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3) of section
1005(e) of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 (10 U.S.C. 801
note), no court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear
or consider any other action against the United States or its agents
relating to any aspect of the detention, transfer, treatment, trial,
or conditions of confinement of an alien who is or was detained
by the United States and has been determined by the United
States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant
or is awaiting such determination.’’.

…

Sorry for the long answer. I didn’t read the entire bill so the Cafferty show on Youtube could be right. Interesting…

]]> By: JTMinIA http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/comment-page-1/#comment-83687 JTMinIA Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:44:52 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/#comment-83687 <p>Can somebody tell me more about this:</p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHQ7Prwh7Gc" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHQ7Prwh7Gc</a></p> Can somebody tell me more about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHQ7Prwh7Gc

]]> By: rosalind http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/comment-page-1/#comment-83654 rosalind Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:58:42 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/#comment-83654 <p>just called the committee again. person answering still doesn’t know, but said if response does come in today might not get posted until next week.</p> just called the committee again. person answering still doesn’t know, but said if response does come in today might not get posted until next week.

]]> By: MarkusQ http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/comment-page-1/#comment-83648 MarkusQ Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:37:09 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/#comment-83648 <blockquote><p> 14 - I was being a little snarky there, sorry if it didn’t come through that way. </p></blockquote> <p>I suppose it did. I’m just fed up with people chanting that we must support BO because he’s a D, even if he morphs into a slavering neocon before November. And the whole slew of people trying to spike any discussion of the FISA/immunity bill on most blogs.</p> <p>– MarkusQ</p>

14 – I was being a little snarky there, sorry if it didn’t come through that way.

I suppose it did. I’m just fed up with people chanting that we must support BO because he’s a D, even if he morphs into a slavering neocon before November. And the whole slew of people trying to spike any discussion of the FISA/immunity bill on most blogs.

– MarkusQ

]]> By: bmaz http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/comment-page-1/#comment-83644 bmaz Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:29:01 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/#comment-83644 <p>That is exactly right; in fact the only real operational significance that I have ever determined is, or would be, in terms of a related civil suit. Somewhere (I once long ago and far away actually litigated some of this pardon crap) there was a case where there was an assault or some other act causing physical damages, and the fact of acceptance of pardon/guilt was simply used as some type of evidence or finding regarding the nature of the act. The defendant may even have been dead in that case, and this was used to keep the estate from denying the act or something like that. I can’t remember, and may be hallucinating with these recollections, but at any rate, that is the only general type of use I recall in this regard.</p> <p>As to the other contention above, Mary has hit the nail on the head. The problem is, in the instant case, no cases will ever get filed to get to that point, even if it would maintain (and, again if I recall correctly, Burdick was a bit weird in it’s structure). I hope that this theory would work out different than I am suggesting, but I would bet zero money on it.</p> That is exactly right; in fact the only real operational significance that I have ever determined is, or would be, in terms of a related civil suit. Somewhere (I once long ago and far away actually litigated some of this pardon crap) there was a case where there was an assault or some other act causing physical damages, and the fact of acceptance of pardon/guilt was simply used as some type of evidence or finding regarding the nature of the act. The defendant may even have been dead in that case, and this was used to keep the estate from denying the act or something like that. I can’t remember, and may be hallucinating with these recollections, but at any rate, that is the only general type of use I recall in this regard.

As to the other contention above, Mary has hit the nail on the head. The problem is, in the instant case, no cases will ever get filed to get to that point, even if it would maintain (and, again if I recall correctly, Burdick was a bit weird in it’s structure). I hope that this theory would work out different than I am suggesting, but I would bet zero money on it.

]]> By: Mary http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/comment-page-1/#comment-83641 Mary Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:13:59 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/#comment-83641 <p>14 - I was being a little snarky there, sorry if it didn’t come through that way. </p> <p>18 - keep in mind the context of that case, which is that someone was being criminally pursued over something for which they had arguably been pardoned, but there was some lack of clarity. So you are talking about for the purpose of interposing the pardon as a defense to a prosecution that a prosecutor is otherwise going to pursue.</p> 14 – I was being a little snarky there, sorry if it didn’t come through that way.

18 – keep in mind the context of that case, which is that someone was being criminally pursued over something for which they had arguably been pardoned, but there was some lack of clarity. So you are talking about for the purpose of interposing the pardon as a defense to a prosecution that a prosecutor is otherwise going to pursue.

]]> By: wigwam http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/comment-page-1/#comment-83640 wigwam Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:12:45 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/#comment-83640 <p>If John Dean knew what he was talking about back in 2000, Bush can pardon himself.</p> If John Dean knew what he was talking about back in 2000, Bush can pardon himself.

]]> By: wigwam http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/comment-page-1/#comment-83639 wigwam Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:11:56 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/#comment-83639 <p>So far as I can tell, this “imputation of guilt” has no operational significance. It’s sort of like a moral stigma. And Bush certainly doesn’t shy away from those.</p> So far as I can tell, this “imputation of guilt” has no operational significance. It’s sort of like a moral stigma. And Bush certainly doesn’t shy away from those.

]]> By: BayStateLibrul http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/comment-page-1/#comment-83635 BayStateLibrul Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:49:16 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/#comment-83635 <p>I’m wondering if Fitzy had to run it up the flag pole first?<br /> Is he back from his honeymoon, or is it over?</p> I’m wondering if Fitzy had to run it up the flag pole first?
Is he back from his honeymoon, or is it over?

]]> By: JTMinIA http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/comment-page-1/#comment-83631 JTMinIA Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:37:23 +0000 http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/03/dean-and-bush-and-pardons/#comment-83631 <p>Starting about a year ago, I predicted that Bush would resign a few days before the end of his term so that Cheney could pardon him.</p> <p>I stand by that prediction, but have added plans to avoid visiting Tehran during that time.</p> Starting about a year ago, I predicted that Bush would resign a few days before the end of his term so that Cheney could pardon him.

I stand by that prediction, but have added plans to avoid visiting Tehran during that time.

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